tale of three Gregory DONITHORNs

[cledry]

My 6x great grandmother Elizabeth DONITHORN(E) was baptised at Gulval on 19 Aug 1716 to Gregory DONITHORN.

The trouble is there are 3 possible Gregory choices.

bap. 1662 to Richard
bap. 1678 to John
bap. 1680 to William Jnr.

There may be more milling around.

Richard who died in 1669 was married to Anne.

Looking at the children of Mark BERRIMAN and Elizabeth DONITHORN doesn't shed any light on this as far as I can tell. They have Elizabeth, then Mark, then Joan, Margaret and James in that order. Only the name James doesn't appear in the direct line of Mark BERRIMAN for at least 4 generations back.

Just wondering if anyone has researched this family and might have a clue. 
 

[Cornish Terrier]

From recent work on the Harvey families I believe the answer to your question is as follows:-

Richard Donythorne of Gulvall and Ann Gregory were married at Paul 15th July 1661

Gregorius filius Richardi Donithorne (Gregory son of Richard) baptised 11th May 1662 Guval

Gulval 26th January 1701 Grigorius Dunithorne et Maria Harvy nupti (Gregory Donithorne and Mary Harvey married) ** the groom's forename has been transcribed as 'Georgius' in the OPC records **

Mary (Latin Maria) Harvey was baptised at Gulval 22nd September 1672 daughter of Richard Harvey and Mary Thomas and Elizabeth was the last of six children to her and Gregory Donithorne.

CT

[spikeharwood]

Oct 19, 2023 4:10:09 GMT -5 Cornish Terrier said:

Mary (Latin Maria) Harvey was baptised at Gulval 22nd September 1672 daughter of Richard Harvey and Mary Thomas and Elizabeth was the last of six children to her and Gregory Donithorne.

CT

Were not two of the six children of Gregory Donithorne and Mary Harvey named Alice? The wife of John Donithorne was Alice Bennett so not sure that Gregory bap 1678 is completely out of the picture.

[Cornish Terrier]

Spike - you are quite correct. Not only did they have two daughters named Alice but their first son was named John!

To be honest, I am not quite sure now why I ended up with the son of Richard and Ann for the husband of Mary Harvey and when I look over the records now it seems to make no sense. Even though I am experienced enough to know better the only thing I can think of right now is that Mary would have been about 6 years older than the son of John and Alice.

I have just been trying, without success, to check out possible Donithorne Wills that might help. And the only other thing I can think of is to question why Gregory and Mary named a son Cyprian.

Richard and Ann Donithorne appear to have had just the one child (Gregory) so unless Richard hard a brother Cyprian that would not be the source.
William and Elizabeth (Davies) Donithorne, parents of Gregory in 1680, named a son Cyprian in 1682 but they had no John or Alice.

Except for the name Cyprian the logical conclusion would be that the husband of Mary Harvey should have been the son of John and Alice Donithorne ............... so just why did I conclude he must have been the son of Gregory and Ann?!?!?

I have decided to amend my database to show that Gregory Donithorne husband of Mary Harvey was baptised at Gulval 22nd June 1678 son of John Donithorne (m. Alice Benat 12th April 1673 Towednack)

Unless further evidence is found to contradict this change of mind I think logic must prevail.

CT

[Cornish Terrier]

Spike - your post seems to have opened up another can of worms for me!!!

When trying to rationalize my thinking about which Gregory Donithorne married Mary Harvey I downloaded a couple of Donithorne Wills for Gulval Parish. One of those was the 1669 Will of Gregory Donithorne whose son Gregory I had initially linked to Mary Harvey. The other was the 1732 Will of a John Donithorne of Gulval and it is that Will that morphed into the can opener!!

Will of John Donithorne Senr of the Parish of Gulval millwrite made the fowerth day of September in the yeare of our Lord - 1726
Inventory taken 22nd November 1731 by Ralph James and Nicholas Donithorne
Will proved at Gulval 11th May 1732

First bequest was a sum of three pounds to his son Gregory Donithorne 'at the end of twelve months after my decease'.
Second bequest was a sum of three pounds to his daughter JANE HARVEY 'to be paid her too years after my discease'.
Third bequest was 'unto my graddaughter Trifena Donithorne the sum of fower pounds to bee paid her: three years after my decease'.

Finally 'All the rest of my goods and chattels with my estate in Trezela I give and bequeave unto my granddaughter Trifoeza Donithorne which I doth appoint to bee my whole and sole execitrix of this my Last Will and testament ............ etc.'

Gulval 1694 Tryphena the daughter of Jane Donithorne bapt: the first day of November the Reputed father Roger Donithorne

Complicating this a little is this:-

Gulval 1698 Tryphosa 2nd notha Janetta Donithorne Marchi 4 (I checked some Latin definitions and this (i.e. 2nd notha) appears to mean a second illegitimate child of this name to a known father who may or may not have also been Roger Donithorne)

I have not been able to find a burial for the first child so it is possible they are two different children although from what I had seen in the past these names seemed to be interchangeable. Given the scarcity of this name in the Donithorne families and with the following marriages in mind I think that may have been a misconception.

27th January 1727 Gulval John Pearce of Towednack and Triphosa Donithorne married
29th September 1735 Ludgvan Edmond Gillis and Trefena Dunnithorn married

It does seem that the two brides must have been the illegitimate daughters of Jane Donithorne.

But let me return to the 'can of worms' which is the 'daughter JANE HARVEY' mentioned in the Will of John Donithorne!!

I can find no possible marriage of a Jenifer/Jane Donithorne (var.) to any Harvey - at least if there is such a marriage it is well distant from being involved in this scenario.

HOWEVER (there just had to be a 'However'!! : What I do have in my database is a Richard Harvey with a wife named Jenifer for whom I have never been able to find a marriage!! And this particular Richard Harvey 'just happens to have been' .................................... the BROTHER of Mary who married Gregory Donithorne!!!

It seems to me that 'Jenifer' Harvey must be the 'daughter Jane Harvey' mentioned in the Will of John Donithorne.

John Donithorne named grandaughter Trifoeza as residual legatee and Executrix 'All the rest of my goods and chattels with my estate in Trezela'

Richard Harvey in his Will of 1732 also mentioned property in Trezela. That may be purely coincidental of course but ............

Rightly or wrongly I now have John Donithorne's 'daughter Jane Harvey' as the wife of Richard Harvey.

CT

[spikeharwood]

Oct 20, 2023 7:27:26 GMT -5 Cornish Terrier said:

...............And the only other thing I can think of is to question why Gregory and Mary named a son Cyprian.

Richard and Ann Donithorne appear to have had just the one child (Gregory) so unless Richard hard a brother Cyprian that would not be the source.
William and Elizabeth (Davies) Donithorne, parents of Gregory in 1680, named a son Cyprian in 1682 but they had no John or Alice.

Except for the name Cyprian the logical conclusion would be that the husband of Mary Harvey should have been the son of John and Alice Donithorne ............... so just why did I conclude he must have been the son of Gregory and Ann?!?!?



CT

CT:

I don't think we have a baptism record for John (abt 1647), but he could well have been a brother of William (1639). As you point out William had a son Cyprian. And that gives a certain level of comfort as to why Gregory may have named a son Cyprian.

[Cornish Terrier]

I don't think we have a baptism record for John (abt 1647)

How about
1. 1st April 1644 Gulval Johannes son of Johannes Donithorne
2. 10th May 1645 Gulval Johannis son of Johannis Donnithorne junior

Oops - just checked burials and they both only lasted a few months so that won't work.

What is interesting is that of all transcribed records on the OPC site the very first instance of Cyprian (of any spelling including Seperan) is that 1682 baptism for the son of William whose wife was a Davies. That begs the question of why William might have used the name?

In fact the OPC records just one other instance of the name in the Donithorne (var.) families and that is the son of Gregory!!

Whatever the origin of the name there is still the fact that Gregory used the name Alice twice and his first son was named John. For that reason I am more inclined to accept that my original placement of Gregory was incorrect. Although not really unusual I still have a few doubts given that Gregory would have been about six years younger than his wife.

CT

[cledry]

Regarding the DONITHORNE surname. It seems based on a cursory look at the OPC database that the name first appears in the area in Gulval, possibly with brothers William and John. Both having children baptised in Gulval in the early 1600s. I believe at some point the family came to Cornwall from Devon but haven't researched much on this line yet. It does seem that they spread out from Gulval. IThere was also another early Donithorne in Gulval named Martin. This Martin also had a daughter Alice.

[cledry]

Oct 19, 2023 4:10:09 GMT -5 Cornish Terrier said:

From recent work on the Harvey families I believe the answer to your question is as follows:-

Richard Donythorne of Gulvall and Ann Gregory were married at Paul 15th July 1661

Gregorius filius Richardi Donithorne (Gregory son of Richard) baptised 11th May 1662 Guval

Gulval 26th January 1701 Grigorius Dunithorne et Maria Harvy nupti (Gregory Donithorne and Mary Harvey married) ** the groom's forename has been transcribed as 'Georgius' in the OPC records **

Mary (Latin Maria) Harvey was baptised at Gulval 22nd September 1672 daughter of Richard Harvey and Mary Thomas and Elizabeth was the last of six children to her and Gregory Donithorne.

CT

I have Mary HARVEY as the daughter of Richard HARVIE and Elizabeth THOMAS. (not Mary THOMAS). Perhaps a typo?

[Cornish Terrier]

Elizabeth it is - looks like I've temporarily inherited some of the traits of the early Vicars!!!

CT

[cledry]

Oct 20, 2023 7:27:26 GMT -5 Cornish Terrier said:

Spike - you are quite correct. Not only did they have two daughters named Alice but their first son was named John!

To be honest, I am not quite sure now why I ended up with the son of Richard and Ann for the husband of Mary Harvey and when I look over the records now it seems to make no sense. Even though I am experienced enough to know better the only thing I can think of right now is that Mary would have been about 6 years older than the son of John and Alice.

I have just been trying, without success, to check out possible Donithorne Wills that might help. And the only other thing I can think of is to question why Gregory and Mary named a son Cyprian.

Richard and Ann Donithorne appear to have had just the one child (Gregory) so unless Richard hard a brother Cyprian that would not be the source.
William and Elizabeth (Davies) Donithorne, parents of Gregory in 1680, named a son Cyprian in 1682 but they had no John or Alice.

Except for the name Cyprian the logical conclusion would be that the husband of Mary Harvey should have been the son of John and Alice Donithorne ............... so just why did I conclude he must have been the son of Gregory and Ann?!?!?

I have decided to amend my database to show that Gregory Donithorne husband of Mary Harvey was baptised at Gulval 22nd June 1678 son of John Donithorne (m. Alice Benat 12th April 1673 Towednack)

Unless further evidence is found to contradict this change of mind I think logic must prevail.

CT

Cyprian also seems to be carried through the NICOLL(S) family. John NICOLL married Margereta HARVIE 13 OCT 1627. Not sure which fmaily first had the name Cyprian though. However the name is very prominent in the NICOLLS lines through many generations, so much so that I feel it is the source of the name in the DONITHORNE family.

[Cornish Terrier]

Cyprian also seems to be carried through the NICOLL(S) family. John NICOLL married Margereta HARVIE 13 OCT 1627. Not sure which fmaily first had the name Cyprian though. However the name is very prominent in the NICOLLS lines through many generations, so much so that I feel it is the source of the name in the DONITHORNE family.

Always a possibility but it might be a little difficult to find that link given there is no marriage in the OPC database prior to 1829 where the groom was a Donithorne (of any possible spelling) and the bride was a Nichollas (again of any possible spelling).

Again utilizing the OPC database - the first instance of the name Cyprian in the far west of Cornwall was Cipryan Lanyn baptised at Sancreed in 1585. And except for Cyprianus Anhill at Breage in 1611 the next Cyprian (and first at Gulval) was Ciprianus Burnowe in 1629 then Ciprianus Nicoll in 1636 and Ciprianus Evah also at Gulval in 1660.

If we use the variations of the name beginning with 'S' we have Sepheronia Dun (female??) at St Erth in 1636, Seppron Gomer at St Hilary in 1688 and then we have to go all the way to 1789 for Sipron Rogers at Sancreed.

Before getting too excited about Cyprian it is probably more important to try and locate a possible baptism for John Donithorne which may mean trawling through Bishops Transcripts and Parish Registers that have not yet made it into the OPC database. Or perhaps looking for Donithorne and other Wills involving Donithorne that I have not yet seen.

If John Donithorne can be pinpointed then we may be one step closer to identifying the source of Cyprian. Of course there is also always the chance that he was not named for a close relative at all - he may have been named for someone important to the Donithorne family but who was not related.

CT