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Post by chrisdearnley on Mar 17, 2023 13:25:24 GMT -5
While researching my COLLICK connections, I came across these Baptisms on the ops database:
1893 Breage John James COLLICK Father - Hugh Mother - Tamsine Ann
1893 Breage Hugh COLLICK Father - Hugh Mother - Tamsine Ann
1893 Breage Elizabeth COLLICK Father - Hugh Mother - Tamsine Ann
1893 Breage Mabel COLLICK Father - Hugh Mother - Tamsine Ann
1894 Breage Thomas Richard COLLICK Father - Hugh Mother - Tamsine Ann
(Thomas Richard was buried on 10th May 1894 at Breague, just a week after his baptism on 3rd May 1894, aged 2 months.)
Does anyone know to which branch of the Collick Family this particular Hugh is connected? For the first four Baptisms, their 'Residence' was Rinsey Croft and for Thomas Richard, it was Ashton.
All or any contributions gratefully received!
Many thanks in advance,
Chris
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Post by Cornish Terrier on Mar 17, 2023 23:27:24 GMT -5
Looks like Hugh's marriage may have taken place in the Registry Office or, perhaps, one of the non-conformist chapels but Hugh Collick married Thomasine Ann Bray in the Helston Registration District in 1883.
Hugh's baptism also appears to have been possibly non-conformist but it appears his birth was registered in the March Qtr of 1862 in the Helston Registration District. His mother's maiden name according to the birth record was Richards but again the parents marriage appears to be Registry Office or non-conformist chapel.
According to the 1891, 1901 and 1911 Census records Hugh Collick was born at Breage and, also according to the 1911 Census, there were a total of 13 children. Also, in each of these three Census years you will find Hugh's wife listed as 'Annie B Collick' or'Annie Collick'.
In 1871 Hugh was living at Ashton with his mother Elizabeth and brothers Edward (11), Thos. (9), John T (5) and Isaac (2). The father was not at home but is recorded as being a miner.
Moving back to the 1861 Census and the household looks like this:-
1861 Census Breage
Ashton
COLLICK, Thomas J head mar 23 tin miner born Germoe
COLLICK, Elizabeth J wife mar 23 born Breage
COLLICK, Edward R son 2 born Breage
COLLICK, Thomas J son 1 born Breage
I have not been able to find a record of the marriage but I did find an online family tree on Ancestry that suggests Thomas J Collick was baptised at Germoe in 1836 to Hugh Collick and Elizabeth (nee James).
CT
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Post by donne on Mar 18, 2023 4:21:06 GMT -5
For what it's worth, Hugh and Tamsine appear to have lived long enough to appear in the 1939 register, both aged 77 and living at an address in Carn Brea, Redruth. DOB for Hugh is given as 22 Jan 1862 and for Tamsine, 15 Jul 1862.
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Post by chrisdearnley on Mar 18, 2023 5:18:15 GMT -5
Many thanks for your input CT - again! This has been really helpful and has opened up a whole new seam to explore - forgive the mining metaphor! As is the case with many families, the same names crop up generation after generation and also across the same generations among family members. I have quite a lot of information about this branch of the family but have not got down to exploring this particular Hugh - up to now. He has been an outcrop waiting to mine! I have found the Baptism record for Thomas James Collick - 30 May 1837, at Germoe: www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/3:1:S3HT-6QZW-HQ3?i=30&wc=3CB4-FM4%3A138123201%2C138780501%2C138782301&cc=1769414Day Month 30-May Year 1837 Germoe Forename Thomas James Surname COLLICK Father Forename Hugh Mother Forename Elizabeth Residence Tresowas Status Or Occupation Miner On Family Search, the transcribing of the Baptism year from 1836 to 1837 has some inaccuracies, which is probably the reason why the Ancestry date is recorded as 1836. While I was trying to work out which year was which, I noticed a Baptism for an Elizabeth RICHARDS on 25 December 1836. Maybe his future wife - although there are plenty of Richards around! (Hugh's grandmother was a Mary RICHARDS). Baptism Date 25 Dec 1836 Germoe, Cornwall, England Father's Name George Richards Father's Residence Place Tresowas Mother's Name Ann Richards Event Type Baptism As you say, in 1871 Elizabeth is the Head of the household, 'Miner's Wife' suggesting Thomas James is still alive. His brothers Hugh (1835) and Stephen (1844) both travelled to the US (Stephen with his wife Sarah (nee HARRY) in 1880), so maybe Thomas James had travelled there as well? Hugh (1835) was to die in an accident in Gold Hill, Nevada in 1874: 'The Territorial Enterprise', 30 December 1874
(Nevada, USA) DIED
In Gold Hill, December 29, Hugh Collick, a native of Cornwall, England, aged 39 years.
[The funeral will take place from his late residence, at John Loynachan’s, Bower Grade, to-day (Wednesday), at 3 o’clock P. M. Friends and acquaintances are respectfully invited to attend.] Hugh's brother Isaac, is the only 'Isaac' Collick I have come across thus far and I have picked up an Isaac Collick travelling to South Africa in 1890. His date of birth on the record suggests 1868, so pretty close to that suggested by the 1871 Census: Name Isaac Collick Sex Male Age 22 Travel Place DURBAN (PORT NATAL), SOUTH AFRICA Arrival Place SOUTH AFRICA Departure Date 24 Jun 1890 Departure Place England, United Kingdom Departure Place England Birth Date 1868 Marital Status Single Occupation MINER Event Type Emigration Source Amended N Arrival Port DURBAN (PORT NATAL) Departure Port LONDON Ship Name METHVEN CASTLE Shipping Company DONALD CURRIE & COMPANY The Passenger Record suggests that a J R Collick (I think this is I R Collick, 'R' possibly standing for Richards, his mother's maiden name?) is travelling to meet T Collick, who was working for the Transvaal Govt Railways (NGR). It seems that the opening of the Durban-Ladysmith line and the discovery of gold that year helped the NGR become a profitable company. T Collick, who was providing the 'surety' for Isaac, may be his brother Thomas, 9 years his senior? As my research continues, it is likely other brothers of Hugh may have travelled abroad. The Collick family certainly spread their wings! Many thanks for your support once again CT. Cheers, Chris |
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Post by chrisdearnley on Mar 18, 2023 5:23:57 GMT -5
For what it's worth, Hugh and Tamsine appear to have lived long enough to appear in the 1939 register, both aged 77 and living at an address in Carn Brea, Redruth. DOB for Hugh is given as 22 Jan 1862 and for Tamsine, 15 Jul 1862. Thanks Roger! Really appreciate your input. Cheers, Chris |
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Post by Captain on Mar 18, 2023 6:24:26 GMT -5
To continue Isaac Richards Collick 1868 Q 4 story he married Elizabeth Lavers 29 Sep 1897 Johanesburg and he died 5th Jun 1901 age 32 at Germiston Gaunteng South Africa.
I do not have the time to recheck at present however I believe the wife/partner of Thomas James Collick is Elizabeth Thomas Richards C15 Aug 1836 of Colvery Breage to Edward Richards and Catherine Williams who married 30 Jun 1824 Breage she was buried 21 May 1850 Beage age 43 living Ashton.
The youngest son of Thomas James Collick and Elizabeth Thomas Richards is Stephen Williams Collick born 1871 Q1 Breage which ties in with the family
In addition the name Isaac might have been inspired by the fact that Elizabeth Thomas Richards had a sister Charity Richards who had an illegit child Isaac Richards 1850-1855. On the 1851 he is shown as son of the grandparents.
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Post by chrisdearnley on Mar 18, 2023 7:27:34 GMT -5
To continue Isaac Richards Collick 1868 Q 4 story he married Elizabeth Lavers 29 Sep 1897 Johanesburg and he died 5th Jun 1901 age 32 at Germiston Gaunteng South Africa. I do not have the time to recheck at present however I believe the wife/partner of Thomas James Collick is Elizabeth Thomas Richards C15 Aug 1836 of Colvery Breage to Edward Richards and Catherine Williams who married 30 Jun 1824 Breage she was buried 21 May 1850 Beage age 43 living Ashton. The youngest son of Thomas James Collick and Elizabeth Thomas Richards is Stephen Williams Collick born 1871 Q1 Breage which ties in with the family In addition the name Isaac might have been inspired by the fact that Elizabeth Thomas Richards had a sister Charity Richards who had an illegit child Isaac Richards 1850-1855. On the 1851 he is shown as son of the grandparents. Thanks for this Captain! Life in Cornwall was precarious and for many of those who travelled abroad, their lives continued to be precarious, with Isaac dying in South Africa aged 32. His Uncle Hugh, who died in the accident in Gold Hill, Nevada, was aged 39. My own Gt Grandfather William Collick (1854), 1st cousin, 1x removed of Uncle Hugh, died in a shooting accident in DeLamar, Idaho in 1898, aged 44; and there were many other early deaths. I have been plotting the movements of generations of Collicks and have been amazed just how many travelled abroad, particularly to the US. For the past 12 months, I have been in regular contact with a 2nd Cousin, 1x removed in Michigan, who knew very little about her Collick forbears, nor how many Collicks there were in Michigan, alone. I mentioned that there must be hundreds and when she checked, she was astounded! Interesting information about the other Isaac. You could definitely be on to something there. Stephen Williams Collick was buried at Breague on 12 Feb 1871, aged just 2 months: Burial Day Month 12-Feb Year 1871 Parish Circuit Or Chapel Breage Forename Stephen Williams Surname COLLICK Age 2m Residence Ashton Thanks again for adding a few more pieces to the jigsaw! Cheers, Chris |
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Post by chrisdearnley on Mar 18, 2023 12:48:50 GMT -5
Some more on the illegitimate child Isaac RICHARDS. In the Breague burial record dated 9 July, 1855, Isaac has a middle name of STODDEN, possibly a clue to his father? Checking the census returns for Stodden names, the nearest one which could fit the bill is one Humphrey STODDEN, who at the time Isaac was born in 1850, already had a young family. This is the census entry for 1851:
1851
Humphrey Stodden 29 1822 Head Breage, Cornwall Copper Miner
Jane Stodden 25 1826 Wife Breage, Cornwall
John Stodden 3 1848 Son Scotland
Thomas Stodden 10m 1851 Son Breage, Cornwall
The Scotland entry is interesting.
On the ops database, there is another entry for a Humphrey Stodden, this time heading for Bodmin Jail. The age is pretty close and the crime - leaving his wife chargeable to St Blazey. If it's him, then he has form in leaving women in the lurch!
Institution Bodmin Criminal
Date Of Admission 24-Sep
Year Of Admission 1859
Register No 26435
Forename Humphrey
Surname STODDEN
Occupation Miner
Abode Camborne late Falmouth
Committed By Chs. Lyne, Clerk. 23 Sep 1859
Offence Sentence Leaving his wife chargeable to St Blazey. Summary. 2 Cal Mos HL. Treadwheel etc. Not here previously.
Personal Details age 40, ht 5-6, eyes dark, hair dark grey, complexion fresh, visage oval, can't read or write. Married. Pockmarked. Scar on nose. No whiskers. Lost right forefinger.
When Discharged 23 Nov 1869
Remarks Behaviour Orderly
Transcriber Notes C below name. Weight in 142 weight out 140.
Hmm...looking at how this string started, rabbits and holes spring to mind!
Cheers,
Chris
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Post by Captain on Mar 18, 2023 15:30:01 GMT -5
I did note that Isaac was given the name of Stodden on burial ONLY. He was not given it at birth or christening. The Cornish were not subtle about naming the fathers at birth and ususally said it very loud and clear with Christian and surname of father then mothers surname. This quick message is just to say the name Stodden I beleive but have not checked is in the Richard Family Edward Richards who married Catherine Williams HIS mother was Charity Stodden. Or its worth checking that out. And/or if the Humphrey you mention is connected to her. The fact that it was added only at burial may well indicate the culprit to be a Stodden and relation of some sort but as he has no descendents we will leave that out in the universe. Good luck with your hunting.
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Post by chrisdearnley on Mar 19, 2023 7:05:01 GMT -5
You are correct Captain, Edward Richard's mother was indeed, Charity STODDEN, who married William RICHARDS in 1776:
01-Jan 1776
Breage
Groom
William RICHARDS
Groom Residence
Breage
Groom Rank Profession
Tinner
Groom Signed / Marked (S/M)
S
Groom Father Name
Groom Father Rank Profession
Bride Fn
Charity STODDEN
Bride Residence
Breage
Bride Condition
Spinster
Bride Rank Profession
Bride Signed / Marked (S/M)
M
Bride Father Name
Bride Father Rank Profession
Banns / Licence (B/L)
B
Witness 1 Thomas Samson
Witness Fn2 Thos Johns
Banns published 3/12, 10/12, 17/12/1775
Can't find any link with a Humphrey though...!
Chris
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Post by Captain on Mar 19, 2023 11:44:41 GMT -5
Whilst interesting the fatherof Charity Richards child is going off on a tangent from the original Collick query
I think it is possible the illegitimate child of Charity Richards ie Isaac 1850-1885 who was buried as Stoddern ‘may’ have had a Stodden father although we must not forget Stodden was his Great GM maiden name.
You have looked at likely Stodden men who might be the father and selected Humphrey Stodden C6.4.1823 who married Jane Bear 1846 Breage as a contender but also say he had a child born in 1848 in Scotland and although he did return to Ashton by 1851 where we know he had a son Thomas 1850@ (not confirmed when GRO website down)
He could be the father but if a Stodden however it could also be one of Humphrey’s brothers. The child was born in 1850 On the 41c Humphrey has at least 3 brothers - John/Benjamin/Mathew discounting his younger brother Richard age 5. On the 51c 2 of those 3 older siblings ie Benjamin 23 and Mathew 21 are living together with their siblings, Benjamin age 23 is the Head and both parents are deceased. One is a sailor! (say no more ha ah)
They are living at Colvory spelt many different ways HOWEVER the youngest of the Edward Richards and Catherine Williams family were christened and they lived at Colvery on the Christening records. That includes Elizabeth Richard 1836 who married COLLICK.
If the Illiget child had been named Benjamin/Mathew/John/Humphrey Richards we would have more of a clue but the main point is there are MORE contenders than Humphrey the oldest brother of the family.
You also mention that there are prison records of a Humphrey Stodden from St Blazey and I have not checked that record but the census for 1851 indicates there is a Humphrey Stadden from Illogan in St Blazey (and he is Stodden) The prison records refers to him being from Camborne and I would suspect without further research he is from a Camborne group of Stodden Christened 25 Sep 1819 Camborne. That line appears to go back Camborne – Gwennap to early 1700’s.
The Humphrey Stodden in Breage age 29 on the 1851 married to Jane Bear I think is connected to the same group of Stodden as Charity Stodden but distantly and possibly only connect up in 1650’s from two different siblings John 1953 and Humphrey 1655 Breage.
The original query about Collick which led to the marriage of Thomas James Collick 1837 and Elizabeth Thomas Richards christened 1836 Breage of Colverry - for them there is a missing marriage certificate. Plus for Thomas James Collick a missing death cert. What Happened to Thomas is the burning question.
A final point on COLLICK family that Thomas James is from ...is of course in 1851 they were living in Biscovey, Par, St Blazey!! The Humphrey Stodden from Camborne/Illogan who possibly went to jail was living in Church St St Blazey.......so not that far from each other! Just to put the cat amongst the pigeons!
We do know that the Collicks returned from St Blazey to Ashton between 1851 -1858 and does this give us a clue as to why we cannot find the marriage cert to Thomas James Collick and Elizabeth Thomas Richards who had issue in Breage from 1858.
If you do find out what happened to Thomas James Collick let me know but otherwise as he is not related I will let him RIP.
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Post by chrisdearnley on Mar 20, 2023 3:57:48 GMT -5
That's why I suggested rabbits and holes...
Thanks for the extra information re the Stodden men. You make a very valid point! My initial search of the 1841 census, using 'The Genealogist' failed to come up with any 'local' Stodden, other than a John Stodden, aged 43 in Breague, who was living on his own. I have checked this source again for John/Benjamin/Mathew in 1841 and again, there is no record of their names! This ended up with me adding 2+2 and probably making 5! I have had other examples of 'missing' records others have been able to find, so maybe need to think about my source...
Re Thomas James, if I do find anything, I will let you know. In the meantime, thanks so much for your input. I really appreciate the time you have taken on this!
Cheers,
Chris
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Post by Captain on Mar 20, 2023 5:39:40 GMT -5
As a footnote to the potential Stodden men who might or might not have been responsible for Isaac Richards the brother John Stodden 1825 is off the hook as he died in Breage 1846. I don't want him turning in his grave about accusations I have made!
I saw some more bits after the message.
Benjamin Stodden 1827 the sailor went into Royal Navy and married 1869 lived in Porthleven and died 1887
Matthew Stodden 1829 disappears possibly to USA
You mention using the Genealogist website, if you are not using ‘free cen’ I would recommend for Cornwall. It transcriptions done long before the commercial sites are much better name wise. I am referring to the ‘old’ version which if you get to free cen is just above the words ‘Search our Census Records’ In truth you need a combination of websites to find the answers especially with the Collect/Collicks. Good Luck.
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Post by chrisdearnley on Mar 21, 2023 16:19:41 GMT -5
Thanks Captain; also for the 'free cen' suggestion, which I have used a lot in the past.
As my Cornish Mother used to say, "Make new friends but keep the old, these are silver, those are gold!"
Cheers,
Chris
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