William Boase and Elizabeth Phillips

[philstone]

Has anyone information to support a marriage between William Boase and Elizabeth Phillips at Zennor on 10 July 1799.
I have Elizabeth (1776) as the daughter of Francis Phillips (1745) and Elizabeth Curnow (1756) Zennor and mar 1775.
Elizabeth Curnow I have as the daughter of Thomas Curnow (1725) and Honour. William appears to be a young 16 year old on marriage although he could have been born earlier than 1783

There was a marriage of William Boase to Elizabeth Gray (or Guy) at Zennor in 1801 but I don't believe these to be the parents of William Boase (1803 Zennor) and who features in my Family Tree. this latter William had a brother Matthew Phillips Boase (1802 Zennor) and this would point to the likelyhood that their parents were William Boase and Elizabeth Phillips.

I would like to prove the following line

William Noye = Sara York (mar 1606 Phillack)
Humphrey  Noye = Hester Sandys
Catherine Noye (1683 St Hilary) = William Davies (1690 St Erth)
Catherine Davies = Francis Phillips
Thomas Phillips = Jane Tonkin
Francis Phillips (1745) = Elizabeth Curnow (1756)
Elizabeth Phillips (1776) = William Boase (1783)
William Boase (1803) = Mary Jane Eddy ( mar 1855 Zennor)
Mary Ann Boase = John Maddern ( mar 1875 Guisborough he was working as a miner there)
The latter are my grt grandparents.

Any help and or comments would be much appreciated.

[sue]

Hi

I know a fair bit about Curnows, from thousands of hours of research into transcribed historical records & original records in some cases, and will limit myself to your comments on Elizabeth Curnow wife of Francis Phillips and see if I can give you some clarification there.

I am hoping your information has not come from other people’s online trees, as that is the way that so much erroneous information gets propagated. But, I do not recogise the identity you have for Elizabeth Curnow.

On this board, the aim is to help people help themseves. So, I am hoping you have made a lot of use of
www.cornwall-opc-database.org
amongst other websites for Cornish historical parish records etc.. There on the OPC website, following the 1775 marriage of Francis Phillips & Elizabeth Curnow at Zennor, you should have found the baptisms for many children to them.

You are quoting Elizabeth Curnow as being a 1756 daughter of a Thomas Curnow 1725 and a wife to Thomas called Honour.

Do Francis Phillips and Elizabeth name any children Thomas or Honour??

Where is there a record of a 1756 baptism of an Elizabeth to parents Thomas Curnow & Honour? Or of any such Elisabeth Curnow baptism around that time?
And where is there a record of a marriage between a Thomas Curnow & an Honour, in the 1740s/50s?

I’ll leave you to delve into the records yourself regarding Elizabeth Curnow, should you wish to, as that is the best way to do things and so much more satisfying, rather than other people giving you answers from research they have done. When you’ve done that and if you have some specific queries re Elizabeth, I will try & point you in the right direction.

I am concerned that you have found some family trees online and are now taking some of it at face value, and wanting to find some facts to support other of the information there. Not a great way to go about research! Sorry if this sound a little harsh, I’m trying to help you find out for yourself accurate information about your ancestors. Starting from what you actually know e.g. your GGparents and finding it all for yourself is such a great feeling!

Sue

[philstone]

Apr 21, 2017 14:59:46 GMT -5 sue said:

Hi

I know a fair bit about Curnows, from thousands of hours of research into transcribed historical records & original records in some cases, and will limit myself to your comments on Elizabeth Curnow wife of Francis Phillips and see if I can give you some clarification there.

I am hoping your information has not come from other people’s online trees, as that is the way that so much erroneous information gets propagated. But, I do not recogise the identity you have for Elizabeth Curnow.

On this board, the aim is to help people help themseves. So, I am hoping you have made a lot of use of
www.cornwall-opc-database.org
amongst other websites for Cornish historical parish records etc.. There on the OPC website, following the 1775 marriage of Francis Phillips & Elizabeth Curnow at Zennor, you should have found the baptisms for many children to them.

You are quoting Elizabeth Curnow as being a 1756 daughter of a Thomas Curnow 1725 and a wife to Thomas called Honour.

Do Francis Phillips and Elizabeth name any children Thomas or Honour??

Where is there a record of a 1756 baptism of an Elizabeth to parents Thomas Curnow & Honour? Or of any such Elisabeth Curnow baptism around that time?
And where is there a record of a marriage between a Thomas Curnow & an Honour, in the 1740s/50s?

I’ll leave you to delve into the records yourself regarding Elizabeth Curnow, should you wish to, as that is the best way to do things and so much more satisfying, rather than other people giving you answers from research they have done. When you’ve done that and if you have some specific queries re Elizabeth, I will try & point you in the right direction.

I am concerned that you have found some family trees online and are now taking some of it at face value, and wanting to find some facts to support other of the information there. Not a great way to go about research! Sorry if this sound a little harsh, I’m trying to help you find out for yourself accurate information about your ancestors. Starting from what you actually know e.g. your GGparents and finding it all for yourself is such a great feeling!

Sue

[philstone]

Sue
Thanks for responding I am currently working on your suggestions but seem to generating more questions than answers.

Will post again if I make any progress

Regards Phil Stone

[sue]

Hi Phil

Great. So if you have found names for the children of Francis Phillips & Elizabeth, I think you will have found there is not a Thomas or Honor amongst them - & whilst there was no law saying people had to follow a naming pattern for their children, around that time in Cornwall most families had a go at it.

If you are not aware of the naming pattern, it goes like this;
1st boy named for the father's father, 1st girl for the mother's mother;... etc. Here's a link:
www.opc-cornwall.org/Resc/naming_patterns.php

Here are the children I have for Francis & Elizabeth:
Elizabeth Mary Sarah Jane Robert Anne Francis

I agree this is not a straightforward case, but the 1st thing that stands out is that there is neither a Thomas nor an Honor, which people out there on the internet have put forward as parents for Elizabeth Curnow, & which my research shows said parentage to be a fallacy, mistaken, a fantasy, an error made many years ago & sadly replicated by others etc. etc.

I have not pursued the parentage of Francis Phillips; others here may have researched this.

If you park that line of thought & look for baptisms of Elizabeth Curnows in this part of Cornwall (on OPC for starters) who would have been of marriageable age in 1775, & still of child-bearing age when apparent youngest child Francis was baptized in 1792, you should come up with a shortlist of possible Elizabeth Curnow baptisms in the 1740s/50s to be your Elizabeth, & they will name parents, & I would be expecting Elizabeth to name a daughter for her mother.  Indeed I am fairly confident she did, but not her 1st daughter.    

What I did over the years was painstakingly tie each person in my research up by a variety means, including by elimination. So, broadly, you could find the Elizabeth Curnows of c1740s/50sish baptisms, find subsequent marriages(&/or burials) in the area of Elizabeth Curnows, see what names they gave their children so as to knock out some of the candidates.....

Anyway, when you're ready, post a question or query on Elizabeth Curnow from what you've found, & hopefully we can assist.

And yes, I think the song goes, There are More Questions than Answers, and the More I Learn, the Less I Know......!

Sue

[Cornish Terrier]

Hi Phil and Welcome to Penwith Genealogy.

The identification of your William Boase is a little confusing and took me a while to figure out so in the interests of enabling you to make a little more headway I will save you a little of the trouble that I had.

Has anyone information to support a marriage between William Boase and Elizabeth Phillips at Zennor on 10 July 1799.

No such marriage found in any Zennor records including Bishops Transcripts.

I have Elizabeth (1776) as the daughter of Francis Phillips (1745) and Elizabeth Curnow (1756) Zennor and mar 1775.

I currently have no information on this Elizabeth other than her baptism but she is not the Elizabeth you are searching for in any case.

There was a marriage of William Boase to Elizabeth Gray (or Guy) at Zennor in 1801 but I don't believe these to be the parents of William Boase (1803 Zennor) and who features in my Family Tree.

In actual fact this IS the marriage you are looking for.

Matthew Phillips Boase and your William Boase (and eight others) were children of William Boase and Elizabeth Gray who married at Zennor 8th August 1801. Your confusion is obviously with the Phillips name and it is that confusion that I can now solve for you.

William Boase was baptized at Zennor 13th April 1783 illegitimate son of Christian Boase.

He is mentioned in the Will of Matthew Phillips of Zennor dated 8th April 1799 and proved 6th June 1799:- "Item ... I Give Devise and bequeath unto William Boase my Illegitimate son by Christian Boase all and Singular that new Erected Greist mill and the Dwelling house thereunt belonging under the same roof Situate On my fee hold Tennament of Eglos Meor aforesaid ..... etc., etc."

Matthew Phillips married Anne Thomas at Zennor 17th December 1796 and one more son - Samuel Phillips baptized 18th June 1798 at Zennor. Samuel married Ann Glasson at Madron 2nd January 1819 by Licence.

Matthew himself was baptized at Zennor 30th April 1750 son of Samuel Phillips and Elizabeth Michell.

CT

[emilygeck]

Hi CT,

I see this thread is a bit old, but hopefully someone can help me out. Like Phil, I too am related to William Boase b.1803 and having trouble getting much further than him. You suggest there is evidence that this William Boase was the illegitimate son of Matthew Phillips and Christian Boase according to Matthew's will - do you have any further information on Christian Boase? I think her parents are Robert and Ann Giles, but can't find out if she ever married or when she died.

Also, I've stumbled across a transcript of a William Boase b 1842 in Zennor to a Matthew Phillips and Biddy - I'm a bit worried that this record is somehow conflated with my William Boase as it would suggest that two different Matthew Phillips knocked up two different Boase women who both named their sons William.

Any light shed on the matter much appreciated!

Emily

[Cornish Terrier]

Hi Emily - Christian Boase, as far as I can tell, was the daughter of Robert Boase and Ann Giles as you suggest. I don't have any further information on her but there is a marriage at St Ives in 1785 for a Christian Boase to William Botteral, widower. This may or may not be the same person.

Also, I've stumbled across a transcript of a William Boase b 1842 in Zennor to a Matthew Phillips and Biddy - I'm a bit worried that this record is somehow conflated with my William Boase as it would suggest that two different Matthew Phillips knocked up two different Boase women who both named their sons William.

Nothing sinister here and in fact I think you are getting a little confused by the dates of events.

Matthew Phillips Boase was the son of your William Boase and Elizabeth Gray. Matthew was baptsed at Zennor 21st February 1802 and married Biddy Williams at Zennor 9th November 1831. William (1842) was the sixth of 12 children to Matthew and Biddy.

CT