Nellie Edith Roberts Curnow 1886 - 1974

[sue]

A Curnow loose-end I would appreciate some super-sleuth help in resolving, please......

My GGfather Curnow had a set of 9 Curnow cousins born 1845 onwards to parents James Curnow 22 May 1818 Towednack & Jane Russell 17 March 1822 St Buryan, who married 10 February 1844 in Gulval.

I know what happened to nearly all these 9 cousins, including the 3 boys making good in California.

What I would like to resolve here is Who is the Mother of Nellie Edith Roberts Curnow, daughter of James Curnow & Jane Russell's son Robert Curnow 1855?

Nellie was the daughter of Robert R(ussell) Curnow – 7th child of James Curnow & Jane Russell - he a mine engineer born 26 April 1855 (baptized 6 April 1862 Gulval) who went to the U.S. in 1873, is enumerated as a single 25 year old miner 1880 in California; married 26 October 1891 in San Francisco (he of San Jose) per San Francisco Call to Elizabeth A Pryor born Pennsylvania and duly had a daughter 26 January 1892 Charlotte Grace Curnow.

It is not daughter Charlotte Grace (Lottie) I am concerned with; she went on to marry Russell Henry Pearce in 1917 California etc.

I am curious to know the provenance of the previous daughter, Nellie Edith Roberts Curnow who marries in Santa Clara California 1913 to Joseph William Hyde (died 1 March 1936 buried Quebec, as is wife), and dies in Vancouver Canada 12 August 1974 as an 88 year-old widow. (Death certificate image available on Family Search.) The informant is her son F.R. Hyde, who provides the information of her birth 20 April 1886 San Jose California to father Robert Curnow & mother name not known born Cornwall. At least, I believe this Nellie marrying in 1913 & dying 1974 to be the daughter of Robert R Curnow 1855 Gulval, not the daughter of a different Robert Curnow. Santa Clara was where Robert R Curnow eventually died and where his brother was established, and there is further evidence per below.

In 1896 Nellie age 8 can be found in Passenger Arrivals Natal to Southampton with sister Lottie age 4 & apparent mother Elizabeth Curnow (Pryor) – I know that father Robert Curnow spent a lot of time in South Africa as a mine manager from newspaper reports, ships' manifestos etc.

In 1901 census Nellie Lottie & Elizabeth are in Penzance England.

7 October 1906 has Nellie age 20, Lottie age 13 & mother Elizabeth arriving New York from Southampton.

I don't think I found the 2 girls in 1910 U.S., in which case I imagine they were in South Africa with father Robert. I do have their mother Elizabeth 5 May 1910 arriving New York from South Africa with orphaned niece-of-her-husband Mabel Fanny Curnow 1897, to whom Elizabeth aunt-by-marriage has been guardian since 1907.

Now, Nellie marries 1913 and Lottie in 1917 both in Santa Clara. By 1920 Robert Curnow mine manager age 59 & wife Elizabeth are enumerated in San Jose Santa Clara & again in 1930, with Robert dying there 1937.

But although Nellie is declared as daughter to Elizabeth in 1901 England census, she was born in 1886 San Jose to father Robert Curnow when he was 31 years old, some 5 years before he married Elizabeth Pryor.

So, who is Nellie's mother? (Not I think Elizabeth Pryor.) Did Robert ever marry Nellie's mother? Per Nellie's 1974 death certificate, her son didn't seem to know her name, only that she – his maternal grandmother - was born in Cornwall. Nellie Edith Roberts Curnow........ Perhaps it's obvious, but not to me!

Sue

[zibetha]

It's not obvious, Sue!

I believe Nellie was her mother's daughter from a previous marriage. Nellie Edith Hyde was screened in Canada in 1917 to be able to re-enter the USA and also applied for a Social Security number later (1946) giving her parents' names as Harry Roberts and Elizabeth A Talbot. I'm voting for the father's name to be accurate, the problem is on her mother's side. Elizabeth appears to have married again after Robert's death to a man named Frederick Cornelius Braxhoofden. Her California death record in that last name gives her father's name as Simmons and mother's maiden name as Talbot. My thought is that Mr. Pryor was Ellen's second husband, and it's possible Elizabeth even adopted that last name. Was Pryor on the marriage record?

Anyway, I don't think Nellie had Curnow blood running through her veins. My great-grandfather was known by his stepfather's name, and nothing needed to happen to make it official back in those days. Robert Curnow did list both girls as his daughters when he had to register at the Embassy in South Africa-- the date of birth is a match. He stated Nellie was born in Santa Clara and her sister in Alaska.

Z

[sue]

Thanks for the extra information, Zib.

Hmmmm.!

So you have found a marriage (or implication of one), post 1932 death of Robert Curnow, for his widow Elizabeth, to a Dutchman Frederick Cornelius Braxhoofden. I can see a death record 1954 for FCB which gives his birth as 1894 – which means Elizabeth was about 70 and he nearly 30 years younger when they married!! That is, unless I have missed a chap a generation older of the same name, which is entirely possible... I do also see a 1942 WWII draft card showing a Mrs Elizabeth as next of kin for FCB, living in Calveras County.

So now I find a death record 9 December 1947 age 83 in Calaveras California for Elizabeth B, with parents' names given as Simmons & Talbot. (I would have liked to find FCB & Elizabeth in 1940, but no luck so far.)

So let me see, you believe an Ellen Talbot born married Mr Simmons pre 1864, had a child Elizabeth Ann in 1864 Pennsylvania. Ellen married again to a Mr Pryor, and the girl became know as Elizabeth Ann Pryor.

There is an 1880 census entry Santa Clara California for Thomas Pryor c1845 England, wife Ellen c1840 England, daughter Elizabeth born Pennsylvania age 16 which I guess is them.

Ellen is 1920 enumerated as mother-in-law with Robert Curnow & wife Elizabeth, as a 74 year old widow born Wales 1846. In 1910 she is alone, widowed in San Jose, having immigrated c1860 - & had 3 children, 2 still alive, yet only Elizabeth at home 1880?

Elizabeth Ann Pryor it is surmised married(?) a Harry Roberts in the 1880s and had a daughter Nellie Edith Roberts 1886 Santa Clara. Then Elizabeth Ann Pryor married Robert Curnow 26 Ooctober 1891 per the San Francisco Morning Call newspaper, which says they were both of San Jose. (California Digital Newspaper Collection.)

Being named in 1891 marriage announcement as Pryor (I don't have a marriage certificate), that only works I think if Elizabeth was unmarried to Harry Roberts when she had Nellie in 1886, which I think unlikely and anyway back then you didn't get dad's surname unless your parents were married.

I'm going to have to look at this some more, still a bit bamboozled! ; but Nellie having a father named Roberts makes some sense, given Roberts is part of her name. (Why didn't her son know this? )

It does indeed seem most likely from this mess that Nellie is not a Curnow.


Sue

[zibetha]

I haven't found much more. Some of the names are too common. (I have my own share of Simmons/Semmons/Semmens relatives in Pennsylvania -- this could be one.)

Fredrick B was a purser's clerk for the Holland America line, so there are many sightings of him arriving in New York. I did later find him as a freight clerk headed for Hawaii in 1927 on a American line, so he must have gone to work on the West Coast. I don't have access to California marriage records for the era in question.

Nellie took her son, Francis, to England on Holiday when he was 9 and a half, so the Canadian ocean arrival record gives us a first name. That had me pretty curious what the initial "R" stood for. I just found a border crossing record from 1952 when Francis Robert William Hyde brought his wife and sons Robert and Francis to see his uncle Russell Pearce in Berkeley, California and seek permanent residence It looks like they continued the Roberts name but dropped the s.

I couldn't say if Ellen ever married Mr. Simmons. If not, that could be why Nellie gave Talbot for her mother's maiden name. I couldn't find a birth for either Elizabeth Simmons or Elizabeth Talbot in Pennsylvania.

Z

[Cornish Terrier]

I don't know that I can be much help on this one but I'll throw in a couple of bobs worth and see what happens.

I've had a quick look at the 1860 US Census searching for any 'Ellen Talbot' born England. There are some from Ireland but none to match the girl of interest. I then did the same with the 1861 UK Census and came up with two possibilities.

1. At Hammersmith, MDX there is an Ellen Talbot age 21 with birthplace Datchet, Bucks. She is with the family of George and Eliza Coombs and named as sister-in-law.
2. At Berrow, SOM we have an Ellen Talbot age 20 daughter of John and Sarah Talbot. This girl was born at Baltsonsborough, SOM.

If one of these is the right girl then that might help track her down on a passenger list.

CT

[sue]

Thanks Zib for yet further information!

And for looking for Ellen Talbot, CT....

Ok, so I have found a webpage for the Santa Clara Historical & Genealogical Society; within that a page for the Williams Funeral Home Books, which has indexed the death of Ellen Pryor 10 June 1930 age 88, date of birth 16 December 1841 – and it is for “Ellen Pryor (Talbot)" which is nice confirmation.


Pryor, Ellen (Talbot)
Jun 10 1930
Dec 16 1841
age 88
page 219
Williams 1930 book.

It's coming back to me now - this Funeral Homes Book is where I found Robert Curnow's death years ago - although sadly not that of his widow Elizabeth-later-Braxhoofden, as she wasn't in that area by the time of her death 1947.

I've not had any luck finding Ellen arriving in U.S.; nor a birth in Pennsylvania c1864 for daughter Elizabeth Talbot/Simmons mother Ellen (why would I if you couldn't?!) ; nor a birth for Nellie Edith c1886 in the Santa Clara area.

This step-daughter line to Robert Curnow may be a loose end for some time, methinks!

Sue

[Cornish Terrier]

Pryor, Ellen (Talbot)
Jun 10 1930
Dec 16 1841
age 88
page 219
Williams 1930 book.

I suspect this might be the Ellen Talbot whose birth is registered in the December Qtr of 1840 Newport R.D. which puts the birth in Shropshire/Staffordshire. Not quite a match to the two I found in the Census but then that was a very quick search with no name variants used.

But wait! If the birthdate is actually correct then she could be the Ellen Talbot registered in the March Qtr of 1842 at Hungerford R.D. which puts her in Berkshire. A December birth would often not be registered until the New Year, especially in the earlier days of Civil Registration.

Pennsylvania is difficult with many Counties not being represented in the available records. But if the County of residence for this family could be identified then other possibilities for finding the records might become apparent.

CT