Post by ultraviolet on Dec 28, 2013 9:36:21 GMT -5
I am trying to find the origins of Sampson Cock, baptised in Paul on 17 Feb 1644. He seems to be the only child of John Cock baptised in Paul at that time.
A pedigree I found online suggested that he is the son of John Cock of St Just, but having found John's Will dated 1667 in the West Penwith Resources database, he does not mention Sampson, so it seems unlikely that he belongs to that family.
A search for the name Sampson Cock on the IGI reveals one earlier example, a son of William Cock born in St Gluvias in 1614. But I can't find any other sons of that William, so a connection remains unproven.
Post by Cornish Terrier on Dec 28, 2013 23:24:46 GMT -5
I have just spent some time working on the entry in an image from the Paul Parish Register which is viewable via FamilySearch. There is an extra word in this entry that everybody else appears to have either missed or simply ignored and if my interpretation of that word is correct then it paints a slightly different picture for you.
Before arriving at my conclusions I spent time making comparisons with other words and the writing in general on the page of the register in question and I have come up with the following:-
Samson base sone to John Cocke whas bap: the 17th day of ffebruary (1644)
My first impressions were that this record stated 'born the 17th day .....' but after viewing the image in negative I can make out the colon ( which suggests it is probably 'bap'. It is the word I have highlighted in bold print that makes all the difference and I am as sure as I can be that it is 'base' meaning that this was an illegitimate child.
I would be interested in some other opinions of this but if I am correct, as I think I am, then it helps explain the lack of other children but at the same time may make it a little more difficult to identify John Cock.
Post by Cornish Terrier on Dec 28, 2013 23:56:31 GMT -5
Taking this query a little further. I noted that I already had Sampson Cock in my database with a marriage to Jemima Grinfield at St Just 19th June 1675. The list of children I have for Sampson is as follows with all events at St Just:-
Esther 1676 John 1678 Edward 1680 Margaret 1682 Mary 1684 Bathsheba 1688 John 1689 Bathsheba 1692 (I believe she married Nicholas Stevens at Towednack in 1717)
This suggests to me that Sampson's father may have been the John Cock who married Easter (Esther) at Paul 19th January 1655. John and Esther had two children that I can find - Edward 1656 and Richard 1658 at St Just.
The John who's will you have was married to Margaret ? They had 5 children. Sampson was indeed the son of John and Marie. I have attached 3 files, Grenfell and 2 Cock files. Unfortunately at present unable to link the 2 Cock lines. RW If the files do not come through contact me direct and I will send them with an e mail
Post by ultraviolet on Dec 30, 2013 17:54:42 GMT -5
Thanks all, there is some very interesting material here. I had the same children of Sampson and Jemima. My understanding is that Margaret married Henry Nankervis. I am descended from them via two of their sons, Thomas and Henry, as Thomas's son Henry married Henry's daughter Margaret - again, if I have disentangled them all correctly!
And is it right that Grace Tailder, Henry's wife, is the daughter of Thomas Taylor and Jane Ustick? And has anyone else had any joy tying this line of Usticks into the landed family from Cheshire and St Just?
Post by ultraviolet on Dec 31, 2013 4:37:35 GMT -5
I've now taken a look at the parish register entry for Sampson Cock in Paul. It is very noticeable how all the other entries say X son/daughter of Y, whereas with Sampson there is an additional word between the name and the word son. I think, CT, that you are right that it says base son.
Given that Sampson called his first daughter Esther, I think it is almost certain you are right that his father was the man who married Esther.
Do you have any more thoughts as to who that John is? Within the Paul registers in the IGI, I can't find any possibilities after 1620. There is a John son of Richard in 1617. Do you know if anyone has traced this line with any confidence?
Post by Cornish Terrier on Dec 31, 2013 8:28:04 GMT -5
No, at this point I have no real clues to the identity of John Cock although it is possible that he had previously married Marie. Problem there is that I have found no children from that union and nor have I found a burial for Marie. On the other hand John and Esther named sons Edward and Richard so either one of those might have been the name of his father.
Post by ultraviolet on Jan 7, 2014 17:16:48 GMT -5
Ancestry has just uploaded all PCC wills, complete with images. I have found a Richard Cock, 1656, from Paul, who in his will, among other things, left a legacy to his sons Nicholas and John. Irritatingly, there seems to be some sort of error and I can only find the first page of the will. But given that John and Esther had a son called Richard, it seems plausible to me that this is Sampson's grandfather. Does anyone have any awkward facts that would pour cold water on that nice theory?
Post by ultraviolet on Jan 7, 2014 17:45:21 GMT -5
I've sorted the second page now. The family of Richard Cock consists of sons William, John and Nicholas; William's son Richard; and daughters Joane, Elizabeth and Jane. He also makes reference to leaving a legacy to each of his grandchildren, but he does not name them.
Post by ultraviolet on Feb 24, 2016 16:33:17 GMT -5
Hi Karlan. Thanks for that.
I presume the Nickervis you are talking about is Constance? Do you have any idea where she fits into the rest of the family? I have a lot of them in my tree, but Constance is "free-floating" at the moment.
And I have not got this family linked into the Arundells and Grenvilles at the moment, although I have a lot of both in my tree. I would be very interested to know how it all links together.
I've not yet got a Chyrgwin on my direct line of ancestry, although of course I keep coming across the name. What is your source for Thomas Taylor's parents being Thomas Taylor and Margaret Chyrgwin? I had the baptism in Sancreed on 8th June 1685, from the Cornwall Online Parish Clerks database, but that gives the parents' names as Thomas and Mary. And 1685 seems quite late for a couple married in 1663 to be naming a child after the father. In fact, if Thomas and Margaret had a first son called Thomas, that son could be old enough to be the father of Jane's husband - if you follow me! But I can't find any likely baptisms or marriages to back up that theory. Do you think there could be another generation in there?
Constance Nikerwis married Martin Ustick in 1686 in St Just in Penwith. They were the parents of Jane Ustick bap c1688 and Jane married the Thomas Taylor who was bap c1685. Jane and Thomas married 16/08/1708 in St Just.
Going back to the marriage of Thomas Taylor to Margaret Chyrgwin it appears that they had 10 children and the first one William was born c1664. This would fit in with the naming patterns as Thomas's father was William. Thomas the child of Thomas and Margaret appears to be the last child of the couple born in c1685. My sources are a family member who has done extensive research on our family line over many years and on checking for myself with subscription sites and other parish records I can only say that I am as sure as anyone else that the information is correct but looking at the dates who knows as it depends a lot of the time on what a parish clerk heard as to what he put a name down as. That is why there are so many versions of Nekervise/Nankervis/Nikerwis/Ankervis etc.
So going back even farther and into the Ustick/Veale marriage of Martin Ustick and Jane Veale who married 05/12/1656 in St Just. These two were the parents of Martin Ustick who married Constance Nikerwis. The parents of Jane Veale were Hugh Veale and Julien although I have never been sure if I have Julien correct and it could be a Catherine Guy instead so my searching of that side has hit a brick wall. But it is the Veale side which leads back to the Arundells and Grenville families. Hugh Veale above was born c1605 to parents Thomas Veale and Kathryn Josse. The parents of Thomas Veale were William Vielle and Joane/Jane Arundell. The parents of Joane/Jane were John Arundell and Julia de Erisey. The parents of John Arundell were John Arundell and Jane Grenville.
I hope this has helped you to tie up the families but please check for yourself rather than take my word for anything. Also if anyone else reading this disagrees with my findings I would be interested to hear and willing to change my records after further research.
Please ask if I can help you with anything else. Karlan