The early Camborne Glassons

[Deleted]

CT et al

The earliest Glasson family that I have been prepared to properly add to my database is the John Glasson who was baptised at Camborne on the 1st November 1685, and who was said to be the son of John.

The John of 1685 I have as being married to Dorothy Verrant on the 11th November 1710 and this couple having at least 8 children from 1711 until 1726 at Camborne - William, John, Barbara, John, Robert, Dorothy, Mary and Charles.

I have never been brave enough to add a father to John of 1685 and the only marriage that I am aware of that would be relevant is the marriage of John Glasson to Katherine at Illogan in 1668.

As a matter of interest the absoltue majority of public member trees on Ancestry have the parents as John Glasson and Elinor Russell - trouble is the marriage occurred 20 years before the birth years that are given for that couple -

I would appreciate some discussion CT - but not on the subject of Ancestry thanks

Lannanta

[Cornish Terrier]

Lannanta - having taken a look out of curiosity I find that the quoted information appearing in Ancestry Trees is so stupid as to not warrant comment!

So - let's start with something that bears some resemblance to common sense.

From the Tapley-Soper transcript of Camborne Parish Registers produced by the Devon & Cornwall Record Society we have the following baptisms occurring at Camborne between the years 1665 and 1706:-

1st November 1685 - John son of John Glasson of Gwinnier
April 1691 - William son of John Glasant <====
17th January 1701 - Jane daughter of Charles Glasant

(There are several baptisms of children to a John Glasson up to 1661 and then an unnamed child baptised in 1664. This last does not appear in the BTs. This appears to be an earlier John Glasson.)

John Glasson was not married at Gwinear but obviously he was resident there at least for a time so I have searched the Gwinear Parish Register from 1664 to 1711 with results as follows:-

12th May 1678 - Rebeckah daughter of John Glassan
13th July 1680 - Sarah daughter of John Glasson
10th May 1682 - Robert son of John Glasson
5th August 1688 - Elizabeth daughter of John Glasson
5th April 1691 - William son of John Glasson <====

I believe that the two entries marked (<====) are for the same child thus linking the two sets of baptisms to the one man.

So who was this John Glasson?
As mentioned above there were children baptised at Camborne to 'a' John Glasson in the years up to 1661 and then in 1664 there is an entry for a baptism at Camborne for which no Christian name or gender have been noted. This entry is noted as not appearing in the Bishops Transcripts.
This earlier John is possibly the man who married Elinor Russell although I cannot be certain. But it would seem the later John was not the son of John and Elinor:-

John son of Elinor Glasson, widow, buried 2nd March 1670 Camborne
Elinor Glasson, widow, buried 1st April 1677 Camborne

The later John may be the one baptised at Camborne in 1640 son of William Glasson.

But I am straying from the point which is to try and identify a marriage for John Glasson prior to 1678.

At this point we have only one marriage to consider:-

Jh. Glasson and Katherine his wife were married ye 14th of Jany. 1667 Illogan

However there is the 'minor problem' of this entry from the Budock Parish Register:-

Gartheret the daughter of John & Katherin Glazson was baptized the 13th day of June in the yeare of our Lord 1680

That being just one month prior to the baptism of Sarah daughter of John Glasson at Gwinear serves to make things just a little awkward!

And just to compound the problem a little further is that baptisms from around 1666 to about 1687 at Illogan appear to be missing from the register.

I think that should be sufficient for you to try and digest for the time being.

CT

[Deleted]

CT

It clearly shows the damage these stupid public trees are doing.

I have tabulated all the individuals and it shows the same as you - I did not have Sarah of 1680 vintage and my next question was going to be whether the two Williams were one and the same - which you have answered.

The only way to move forward at the moment is to ignore the Budock entry. With the only John marriage available being the one at Illogan (no idea why they were there other than Katherine was from there) it is the only option to add this next generation.

So we have John and Katherine married in 1668; having
Rebecca, Sarah, Robert, John, Elizabeth and William. Difficult to look at a naming pattern without knowing who's family Katherine belongs to; and thereby it would be fair to suggest that Katherine's husband was the son of Robert, John or William.

It does seem however that in the years between 1668 and 1678 - 10 years - that there would have been a number of children born to John and Katherine - that being the case I am not aware of them yet. It would seem unusual that there is not a daughter Katherine... in the three available that we know of - Elizabeth, Sarah and Rebecca.

The other option that I think must exist is that there is another marriage not accounted for between a John Glasson and an unknown woman - closer to 1678 and closer to Gwinear/Camborne.

Lannanta

[Cornish Terrier]

Lannanta - I don't really think it is a good idea to ignore the Budock baptism.

If the only parent named in that baptism was the father then ............... perhaps. But both parents were named and the mother's name is clearly Katherine so the marriage 13 years before of John Glasson and Katherine at Illogan surely must come into consideration especially as none of the baptisms at Gwinear and Camborne included the mother's name!

It should also be noted that the baptism at Budock in 1680 to parents John and Katherine Glazson appears to have been a 'one off' in that Parish.

CT

[Deleted]

Yes agreed CT - poor choice of words on my behalf.... I meant to accept that it exists for what it is but not to allow it to prevent John and Katherine also having children in Gwinear etc.

Saying that though - it doesn't feel right..... 10 years worth of children from 1668 to 1878 unaccounted for - then a bunch in Gwinear/Camborne every two years or so .... I can't help but feel that we are a marriage short here.....

While, as you say, there was only one in Budock, there are other Glassons there at the time e.g. Nicholas... somewhere a marriage exists for him around 1700 and his two children are John and Catherine.... and so follows a family of Glassons in the Falmouth area quite separate from the Crowan lot that moved there towards 1800. Then there is a William - married in 1716 at Constantine but said to be from Budock...... is this the son of John and Catherine of the 1690 era who was baptised twice.....

Can't get my head around it CT

[Cornish Terrier]

There is no reason why a child baptised at Budock could not belong to a family from Illogan/Camborne/Gwinear area which is why that Budock baptism needs to be kept in mind.
But the main sticking point is that just one month separates that baptism from another at Gwinear and it is that which suggests the possible existence of another couple of the same name.

But I would find it suspicious that we suddenly have two different John Glassons each married to someone named Katherine in such a short space of time.

John and Elizabeth or John and Mary perhaps .............. but Katherine??

[Deleted]

CT - I know that I am getting tired but I only know of one marriage to John and Katherine - the one at Illogan ... because all the other baptims in Gwinear etc only list John, the father... he could have been married to a Mary, Rebecca, Sarah or the like

Lannanta

[donne]

Is it possible that the same couple had the same child baptised twice in two different parishes? I don't suppose this was lawful, but I mention it because some MOON families I noted in East Cornwall appeared to have some children baptised in both Landulph and Botus Fleming parishes circa 1638 according to the IGI. (Botus Fleming and Landulph are adjacent.) I must admit that I have not been able to confirm this with the Family Search images for the Botus Fleming registers which are quite faded, so it may be just IGI nonsense.

[Cornish Terrier]

Roger - the Glasson baptisms in question for 1680 actually involve different children and that is causing part of the problem.

But as for your IGI examples for Landulph and Botus Fleming - this is yet another example of the misleading information rampant in the IGI.

Experience with many, many similar IGI entries tells me that there is a quite simple answer but it is also a problem with marriages that has caused me headaches over the years.

Using a 'phantom' example we might find something like this in IGI:-

John son of Fred Nurke baptised 1st June 1685 Illogan
John son of Fred Nurke baptised 1st June 1685 Falmouth

In actual fact you will find that the entry occurs only once in the registers and will be something like:-

John son of Fred Nurke of Falmouth baptised 1st June 1685 at Illogan (or vice versa)

CT