Post by nannysmith on Oct 22, 2011 18:52:35 GMT -5
I see where others have Williams difficulties, so I thought I would add mine ;D. John Williams married Prudence Symons 1765 at Perranuthnoe. I have found two daughters, Prudence and Grace (1772). Grace is my ancestor who married Robert Ford and I have their BDMs. Grace's mother, Prudence, I believe was born 1743/44 Breage, daughter of Joseph Symons and Alice Thomas. There is a burial at Breage 1799 aged 60 which would fit. There is another Prudence married to William Williams having children at Breage at the same time according to the OPC. As far as John Williams is concerned, I have no idea as there are so many to choose from. The fact that there were only the two daughters suggests that either John died early or they moved away. Would love to hear ideas or info as to the best way back. Many thanks.
Post by Cornish Terrier on Oct 23, 2011 4:14:38 GMT -5
Prudence, I believe was born 1743/44 Breage
And what would be wrong with this one:-
Prudence daughter of Henry and Grace Simons bp. 2nd May 1731 Perranuthnoe
The fact that there appear to have been only two children born to John and Prudence may be due to a number of reasons. And one of those reason might be that the mother was not a young woman when she married.
This Prudence would have been about 34 when the marriage occurred in 1765 and I would think should be considered as the likely mother.
I would also be thinking more about that 1799 burial at Breage as it is not quite the 'nice fit' that you indicate. If born 1743/4 then Prudence would have been only about 55 in 1799. But it is also worth keeping in mind that the age at death/burial was not always accurate. Another potential problem with this burial is that it is from a Transcript and without seeing the original register it is not possible to tell whether the information was clear enough for there to be no mistake. If the writing was faded, smudged or just plain terrible then it should be considered that perhaps the age might have been for example 68 or 69. And if that were so then Prudence bp. 1731 Perranuthnoe would be the better fit.
But that is all hypothetical until someone can get a good look at that register.
John Williams of course is a much greater problem and I would begin by looking for any John Williams whose mother was Prudence or Grace.
Now - before you go claiming any burials I think you should know that the OPC site does not include pre-1813 burials for Perranuthnoe!!!
Post by Cornish Terrier on Oct 23, 2011 5:47:36 GMT -5
I have just checked my Perranuthnoe records but unfortunately I don't have the burial records from 1804-1813. No sign of a Prudence up to 1804 but there was a John Williams buried 26th January 1787 at Perranuthnoe.
Absolutely think you are spot on with Prudence CT ... now why couldn't I find her? ........ mutter It does mean that the daughters' names of Prudence and Grace are in the Simons family and maybe not in the Williams family, rabbits. Didn't know that Perranuthnoe burials started at 1813, thank you for that info. I've been in contact with Diane the OPC at Perranuthnoe before, but I've never asked her about the Williams. Benjamin Bryant my ggfther married Catherine Davies in Stawell, Catherine's mother was Susanna Symons from St Keverne ..
We cross posted .. Thank you for John's burial CT. I wonder if Prudence remarried? I did find a burial 1835 Perranuthnoe of Prudence Williams age 66 residence Goldsithney, which I presume it Miss Prudence Williams. Alexander Bryant died 1841 shortly after the Census and Grace nee Williams died 1850, the family (two of their sons and families) were living at Goldsithney in the 1841 Census, in 3 houses next to each other. While the church they use is Perranuthnoe the families appeared to live at Goldsithney.
Post by Cornish Terrier on Oct 23, 2011 10:51:09 GMT -5
There is no guarantee that the burial I found for John Williams is the one who married Prudence but it must be considered a possibility. Prudence Williams of Goldsithney buried 1835 age 66 seems to be the unmarried daughter of John and Prudence but again I would suggest that a bit more research might be required before 'claiming' her.
I have checked for a possible re-marriage for Prudence but so far found nothing conclusive.
And you need to not restrict yourself to 'Symons' as I found the 1731 baptism as 'Simons' and this name can show up as Semens, Symonds, Semmens, Simmons etc.
Hopefully some of this will give some leads that lead to some answers for you.
Post by nannysmith on Oct 23, 2011 17:41:49 GMT -5
:)Yes I understand that there are many reasons for variations in spelling of names, the fact that many of them signed with a mark means that they could have signed anything. I also realise that the information you found is not proven. The thing is, unless you find a will going back that far, can you ever be sure with common names? I looked for siblings of Grace and Prudence on FS and found William 1723, Grace 7/8/ 1726 & 1731 and Prudince and Patience 2/5/1731. So obviously the people who transcribed the film were having difficulty. You wouldn't know whether Prudence and Patience were twins, or the same person, unless you saw the film? I found a Prudence Williams, widow, remarrying at St. Ives, but then I found her death aged 76, if the baptism you found is my ancestor, she should have been 91 ish. Couldn't find a marriage of Henry & Grace Simons under variants, I looked in OPC, FS (new) and FreeReg.
Last Edit: Oct 23, 2011 17:43:54 GMT -5 by nannysmith
Post by Cornish Terrier on Oct 24, 2011 2:45:29 GMT -5
After consulting Phillimore Marriages and looking at the image again I will amend my previous and suggest the surname of Grace is Kitchen.
I failed to look around the page earlier or I should have noticed an abundance of instances involving the letter 'H'. All are consistent and differ significantly from the first letter of Grace's surname.
Besides which Kitchen is a name more usually found in that part of Cornwall.