I'm related to many lines you've been discussing, but am hoping that someone knows more about William Baragwanath, b. 20 Dec 1819, d. 20 Sep 1888; m. Marie Loveland 12 Aug 1844 Rickmansworth.
The immigrated to U.S. around 1850 on a ship that sank near the US shores. They survived but I can't find any passenger records, or information about ships that sank between 1849 - 1851 that I can confirm whether they were passengers or not.
Also, I can't trace beyond Marie's Parents, Robert Loveland and Marie (?).
Post by Cornish Terrier on Sept 3, 2011 2:31:17 GMT -5
Hi Micki and welcome to Penwith Genealogy.
I am not familiar with the Baragwanath family in the Hertfordshire area but I will certainly have a look at the problem and see what I can find.
What I have so far is an extracted Marriage Record from FamilySearch which will give me a little information to begin with. We need to be a little cautious about the information supplied and ensure that it is all checked as thoroughly as possible but the details are:-
William was 'of age' and his father was John Baragwanath Maria was age 19 and daughter of Robert Loveland
I presume 20th December 1819 is an actual date of birth gathered from family records? I can find only two William Baragwanath's at the moment who were baptised somewhere near that time:-
1. William son of John and Mary (nee Dunstone) Baragwanath baptised 16th January 1820 Towednack, Cornwall 2. William James son of William and Hannah Baraganath born 22nd February 1820 and baptised 31st March 1820 St Johns Old Haymarket, Liverpool, Lancashere
Obviously only the first of these was son of a John but at this point everything needs to be considered. I will try and search around tonight to see if I might be able to expand on that.
Post by Cornish Terrier on Sept 4, 2011 3:39:05 GMT -5
Micki - I believe I have some positive news for you.
I have spent some time checking through the US Census as well as Illinois BDM records and have found information which leads me to a conclusion regarding the identity of William Baragwanath. Although I cannot so far find any record that specifies his second name I believe son Henry D Baragwanath is most likely Henry Dunstone Baragwanath. I also notice on his Death Certificate that it states both his parents were born at St Ives, Cornwall. This is obviously not quite correct Maria was born probably in Hertfordshire.
However, it does seem likely that some mention of his origins were known to is widow Emilie who was the informant.
William Baragwanath was baptised 16th January 1820 at Towednack, Cornwall, son of John Baragwanath and Mary Dunstone who were married at Towednack 20th July 1816.
Maria is slightly more of a problem so I will give some thoughts about her in a following post.
Post by Cornish Terrier on Sept 4, 2011 4:41:02 GMT -5
Micki - Based on what information I have available to check - Census, BDMs etc. - I have arrived at the following conclusions regarding Maria Loveland. I must say that I am not totally convinced but it is all I can find at the moment.
The first thing I should mention is that there is a Maria Loveland at Shalford, Surrey in the 1841 Census. It is recorded that she was born in Surrey and that she was age 15-19. Unfortunately she is not with parents and I can find nothing to suggest who her parents may have been.
Based on what I have been able to find:-
Robert Loveland married Maria Sims by Banns 24th March 1828 at Saint Pancras, Middlesex
Maria daughter of Robert Loveland, coachman, and Maria was baptised 4th January 1830 at Saint Pancras, Middlesex (born 13th December 1829)
In 1841 Robert and Maria and their daughter were living at Bushey, Hertfordshire where Robert was employed as an agricultural labourer. Robert was age 35, Maria, 40 and daughter Maria age 12. It is also noted that none of the family were born in Hertfordshire.
In 1851 Robert and Maria were living at 10 North Row, Park Lane, St George Hanover Square, Westminster where Robert was again employed as a coachman. Robert was age 46 and born at Sydenham, Kent and Maria was age 48 and born at Bury St Edmonds, Suffolk.
What concerns me about this is that their daughter Maria was born in December 1829 and so would not have been quite 15 if it were she who married William Baragwanath in 1844.
I believe it was still legal at that time for a girl to marry at 14 but I would think highly unusual.
As you have already mentioned the marriage took place 18th August 1844 at which time Maria said she was age 19. That is where the Maria at Surrey becomes of some interest.
W Baragwanath can be found as head of household in the 1855 Illinois State Census and it appears there are more adults than just he and Maria in the same dwelling.
I have now finally found the family in each Census from 1860 to 1900 and there is some interesting reading. In 1860 William stated his age as 45 which would have been about four years older than he actually was. More importantly is that Maria stated she was 42! which indicated she was born about 1818! In 1870 we find things probably a little closer to the truth with William then age 51 and Maria 45.
Once again we have Maria's birth at around 1825 (just as with the marriage record) but other information is suggesting this may not be correct.
But in 1880 things change! William is now 60 which closely reflects his true age. But Maria is now 50 which bring her birthdage forward to match the birth record of the daughter of Robert and Maria.
And then in 1900 we find Maria as a widow living still living in Chicago with daughter Jenny. And this time Maria states she was born in December 1828!
The only other thing I have been able to find for Maria is her Death Certificate. And that tells us that she died at about 11.55am 8th December 1908.
More importantly it tells us that her age was 79 years 11 months 26 days
Using the Tombstone Birthday calculator to calculate the Birthdate using the death date and age above give us:-
8th December 1908 - Date of death 79 yrs 11 mths 26 days - age
12th December 1928 - Date of Birth
If we now take another look at the Baptismal record for Maria Loveland:-
4th January 1830 - Date of Baptism 13th December 1829 - Date of Birth
From this I have to conclude that the wife of William Baragwanath was Maria daughter of Robert and Maria (nee Sims) Loveland.
Robert Loveland and Maria Sims married in March 1828 so it is possible that the birthdate recorded on the baptismal certificate of their daughter might be incorrect and should possible read 1828.
The alternative is that Maria's birthdate as supplied later in life may have been incorrect.
But there does seem little doubt now that Maria married when she was not quite 16.
And now I think it is your turn. I notice at the 1900 Census that Maria stated she was the mother of 14 children of whom 5 were then still alive.
Could you please supply me with what details you know of these children?
Hi CT. I can't believe I never replied to you. I am so sorry to have not done so. Thank you so much for all the work you've done.
Maria Loveland married Wm Baragwanath in 1844. They are my great-great grandparents. They came to America about 1850 on a ship that wrecked off the US Coast. I haven't been able to get any details about which ship and which one rescued them. I narrowed it down to the Helena Sloman in 1850, but can't prove that. All the passengers were rescued, but I believe 4 men from the rescuing ship died in the rescue. There were a couple other possible ships a couple years either side of 1850, but I don't know which ones offhand. Then, in 1872, their house burned down in the Great Chicago Fire. They went through a lot. They settled in Chicago, where William B. and William Pim went into the boilermaker business. They made the big heating systems for the large buildings in Chicago.
Wiliam Pim married William B's sister, Maria. in Jan 23, 1873. I don't know when Maria died but she may be the 4th child living in 1900. The other four children still living in 1900 are: my great grandmother Amelia Ann Baragwanath, b. 7 Jan 1854, d. 1 July 1939 Henry Dunston Baragwanath (middle name after his paternal grandmother Mary Ann Dunston, or Dunstone) He took over his father's business when Wm died in 1888. Henry D. Baragwanath b. 8 march 1860, d. 8 Dec 1921 Liliian Baragwanath, b. 27 Feb 1862, 26 Mar 1937 Jennie Baragwanath, b. 6 June 1870, d. 30 Oct 1887
Amelia married Robert Hayes from Sutton Bridge, Lincolnshire, Eng. They had four children, Bessie, Jessie, Emma and Grace. Bessie died as an infant, Jessie is my grandmother, and Emma and grace never married.
Henry D. Baragwanath Married Emilie Ida Williams
Here are some notes I made while researching. here are the deaths listed for Baragwanaths in the pre 1916 death index BARAGWANATH, EMMA V 1887-10-30 CHICAGO 17 YR U 00000967 COOK BARAGWANATH, MARIA 1908-12-08 CHICAGO 79 YR U 00001862 COOK BARAGWANATH, RUTH E 1913-12-13 CHICAGO 21 YR U 00001648 COOK BARAGWANATH, VIOLET M 1898-06-10 CHICAGO 03 MO U 00001801 COOK BARAGWANATH, WILLIAM 1888-09-20 CHICAGO 68 YR U 00000858 COOK Here are the deaths listed for Baragwanaths in the post 1916 death index. Ther IS an Emilie I. mentioned here, but no marriage record to go with it. But both she and Henry were from Oak Park, IL. Also odd is the absence of a Lena Baragwanath. I don't know if there were any divorces.
BARAGWANATH EMILIE I F/W UNK 5260262 1924-05-06 COOK OAK PARK 24-05-06 BARAGWANATH HENRY D M/W UNK 0038506 1921-12-08 COOK OAK PARK 21-12-09 BARAGWANATH JENNIE F/W UNK 0045787 1945-12-03 COOK BROOKFIELD VIL - - BARAGWANATH JOHN E M/W UNK 6031820 1934-11-20 COOK CHICAGO 34-11-22
Per Ann Cator, she has Henry D. married to Emilie Ida Williams. This seems to indicate that they were also married. When did Lena die?
Again, I am so sorry for not responding. I think I had my websites and forums so mixed up that I couldn't remember which ones to check. I don't get a lot of time to do genealogy and if I get sidetracked, as you can see, it takes many months to get back to what I originally asked.