Glasson and Smith

[Deleted]

CT

A really quick question:

Elsie May Smith, born around 1884 in Kyneton in Victoria, daughter of James and Mary, married a Glasson sometime before 6th October 1913 which just happens to be the day that she divorced him - and a month later married Mr Arnall.

I have looked through the NZ records and cannot find her and I had a quick look at Victoria and could not find her marriage there either.

Do you have any access to other marriage records??

Lannanta

[Cornish Terrier]

If my first 'find' is the right one then you may have come up with another complicated one! ;D

Lionel Evelyn GLASSON (born NZ) married Elsie Mary HUME in 1909

Elsie Mary Sackv SMITH born 1884 Kyneton
Father: James
Mother: Mary Susa WAGHORN
Reg. No. 18102

(I suspect Sackv may be abbreviated for Sackville just as Susa will be Susan)

Hmmm - a 'reverse search' for the marriage shows that Elsie Mary HUME was born in Coburg so perhaps I don't have the right one.

If that is the case then there is no marriage evident for Elsie Smith to a Glasson.

On the other hand - there is no birth recorded for an Elsie Mary HUME either!
And I cannot find a HUME/SMITH marriage that fits in with all of this either!

CT

[Deleted]

Might be on the button mate - after all Lionel Evelyn Glasson was the son of Arthur Evelyn Glasson and Matilda Lousia Smith.

I only have a birth for him and no other information.

Also you are right on the button with Mary Susannah Ellen Waghorn being Elsie's mother.

Actually on reflection nice try but no cigar ;D - Elsie was a Hume and not a Smith - born in Coburg around 1885.

[Cornish Terrier]

Actually on reflection nice try but no cigar - Elsie was a Hume and not a Smith - born in Coburg around 1885.

Like I said ............. no birth can be found for Elsie Hume either - in Coburg or elsewhere!

[Deleted]

CT

On Ancestry you can follow Ernest Oliver Arnall through the various Victoria electoral rolls up until the 1930s when he and wife Elsie Mary seemed to have parted ways.

The Australia Death Index has him dying before Elsie and it has Elsie Mary Arnall dying in South Australia in 1966 after being in Victoria before that.

I cannot find a place on line where I can get to see that death entry so I guess that maybe they are not available??? Would you know?

Also if I was able to get a copy of the death entry, would I be able to see who Elsie Mary had married in her life"

Lannanta

[Cornish Terrier]

Lannanta - I am not sure how far the Index for South Australian Deaths covers but the copy I have only goes to 1915.

I don't know how you found the 1966 reference but I just checked and the information I have is that SA BDM Indexes are not available and cannot be searched online.

www.familyhistorysa.info/births-marriages-deaths/

But if you go the the above page and scroll down there is a chart showing what information you should find on SA Death Certificates.

Oddly, the home page of this site seems to indicate Indexes are available online which is a slight contrast to what I found just a few minutes earlier!

Hmm - reading the fine print and I see mention of Ancestry.com.au and 'fee'!

CT

[joanne]

Hello I went to library today looked on SA bdm and found that your ELSIE MARY ARNALL died 07/03/1966 at Westbourne Park South Australia listed as widow she was aged 81 years. book 6A page 1424
her husband ERNEST OLIVER ARNALL died at Glenside South Australia on 07/01/1945 aged 57... book 684 page 55... there are a couple of articles in the NLA NEWSPAPERS on line
i tried getting victorian info but the library only had after 1921...so could not look up in that state for Glasson and Smith marriage...
so it doesnt look like she remarried after Ernest..... the sa death info 1916 to 1972........ Joanne

[Cornish Terrier]

Lannanta - I have just had a look at the updated Victorian Electoral Rolls via Ancestry. Nothing startling so far except for what I have found in the very first Roll which is 1903:-

1903 District of Kooyong
115 Cobden St, Kew
Arnall, John James, caretaker
Arnall, Louisa Emily, home duties

1909 Division of Kooyong Subdivision of Kew
115 Cobden St, Kew
Arnall, Ernest Oliver, plumber
Arnall, Louisa Emily, home duties

1914 District of Kooyong
79 Cobden St, Kew
Arnall, Ernest Oliver, plumber
Arnall, Louisa Emily, home duties

1914 District of Kooyong Subdivision of Glenferrie
27 Churchill Gr., Hawthorn
Arnall, Elsie Mary, home duties
Arnall, Ernest Oliver, plumber

1919 District of Kooyong Subdivision of Hawthorn
3 Barton St., Hawthorn
Arnall, Elsie Mary, housekeeper
Arnall, Ernest Oliver, plumber

1924 Commonwealth Division of Henty Subdivision of Malvern East
21 White St., Malvern E.
Arnall, Elsie Mary, home duties
Arnall, Ernest Oliver, plumber

1924 Supplemental Roll Commonwealth Divison of Kooyong Subdivision of Canterbury
Remuera, Quantack Rd.
Arnall, Elsie Mary, home duties
Arnall, Ernest Oliver, plumber

1931 Division of Balaclava Subdivision of Caulfield West
1 Regent St.
Arnall, Ernest Oliver, plumber

1936 Divison of Henty Subdivision of Malvern East
4 Coppin St.
Arnall, Ernest Oliver, plumber

1937 - as for 1936

1942 Division of Henty Subdivision of Malvern East
41 Elmo Pl., S.E.5
Arnall, Ernest Oliver, plumber

Ernest Oliver Arnall was born at Hawthorn in 1887 son of John James ARNALL and Louisa Emily BROWN who were married in 1883.

(John James Arnall was born at Collingwood in 1854 son of George ARNALL and Ann NEIL)

John James ARNALL age 54 died at Melbourne in 1908

Louisa Emily ARNALL age 82 died at Caulfield in 1943
Parents - John BROWN and Louisa IMPEY

Ernest Oliver Arnall was on the 1914 Electoral Roll at two addresses - one at home with his mother and the second with his new wife.
As he was born in 1907 Ernest would not appear on a Roll until least 1908 so the 1909 Roll is probably his first outing as a voter.

Sometime between then and 1913 he made his way to New Zealand where he married Elsie Mary Glasson and almost immediately afterwards he returned to Victoria.

None of this has helped find that elusive marriage ............ YET!

AHA! yelled the blind man as he was reading the paper to his deaf son!

But I believe I have now solved the problem of Elsie Hume.

It has taken a couple of months for my brain to catch up but .......

Elsie May HULME born 1885 Collingwood
Parents - William HULME and Jane Ann PEARMAN

This would almost certainly be the wife of Lionel Evelyn Glasson but we still need to find Elsie SMITH and her marriage.

Oh well, at least part of the mystery seems to be solved.

CT

[Deleted]

CT

Just for your record:

Elsie May HULME born 1885 Collingwood
Parents - William HULME and Jane Ann PEARMAN

This would almost certainly be the wife of Lionel Evelyn Glasson but we still need to find Elsie SMITH and her marriage.

Oh well, at least part of the mystery seems to be solved.

16th December 1909 at 61 Hope Street, Spotswood, Victora, Australia.
Lionel Evelyn Glasson, bachelor, born in Christchurch New Zealand, a clerk, aged 24 years, resident at Hawthorne, son of Arthur Glasson and Lillie Smith, a civil servant.
Elsie Mary Hume, spinster, born in Coburg, a saleswoman, aged 24 years, resident at 61 Hope Street, daughter of James Hume and Mary McDonald, a shipwright.
Witnesses: Alleyne William Glasson, Isabella Presley.

Lannanta

[Cornish Terrier]

Hmmm - very interesting. But I have to stand by my earlier results as their is no marriage in Victoria for a James Hume/Hulme/Hulm to a Mary Mcdonald/Macdonald and there is certainly no birth recorded for Elsie Mary.

However - after a bit of searching I have found 'something'.

Still no marriage but there are some births to James and Mary Hume:-

Duncan born 1880 Emerald Hill (South Melbourne)
John Turnbull born 1882 Sandridge (Port Melbourne)
Isabella McDonald born 1883 Sandridge
Elizabeth Mary born 1886 Coburg
Tommy Lewis born 1886 Coburg
Annie born 1888 Coburg

The only conclusion I can reach from this is that Elsie Mary was registered at birth as Elizabeth Mary.

CT

[Deleted]

CT

Elsie May Smith, born around 1884 in Kyneton in Victoria, daughter of James and Mary, married a Glasson sometime before 6th October 1913 which just happens to be the day that she divorced him - and a month later married Mr Arnall.

In WA in 1907 Elsie M SMITH married John N. Glasson in Perth, and then in 1914 John N. Glasson married Matilda M RIBE.

Perfect, all I need to know now is who was John N. Glasson....

Lannanta

[Cornish Terrier]

Most interesting - and they certainly seem to have got around!

Looks like Matilda may have died in 1945 in the Perth area but I can't find any further reference to John at the moment. No sign of a birth for him in WA, SA, Vic, NSW or in England. And I had a quick look at NZ just to be sure!

CT

[Deleted]

CT

Perfect, all I need to know now is who was John N. Glasson....

Funny thing how some things come together - John N. Glasson was actually N. John Glasson - Nicholas John Glasson - and the son of Benjamin Edward Glasson and Eliza Jane Temby. So the two separate posts tie together. John N. was a policeman and was obviously left behind after his mother ran away in 1888.

Lannanta

[Cornish Terrier]

I reckon that if you keep niggling away at a problem then sooner or later it will begin to reveal the hidden secrets.

CT