Charles Glasson of 1840 at Redruth

[Deleted]

CT

I have an interesting dilemma and perhaps a novel solution.

Firstly in the 1841 and 1851 census, but not found in 1861, there is Charles Glasson, son of a copper miner John Penhalle Glasson and his wife Honour nee Bishop. Both entries are at Redruth. So it is likely Charles emigrates to find work.

When you look in FreeBMD for a Charles being born about that time, the only one is in 1839, Charles Thomas Glasson and I believe that he was the son of James Glasson and Ann Ratsey. So I do not think that Charles Glassson, son of John Penhalle Glasson and Honour Bishop is recorded in 1840.

So take a leap to a marriage in December 1862 between Richard Glasson, aged 22 and Amelia Whear. Where does this Richard appear in the census - well he doesn't because he is the son of John Glasson, a copper miner and the only Richard, son of a John Glasson was born in 1838 - only two years too early you say but a mother will know whether or not her baby is 1 or 3 years old - surely.

Anyway, when you look at FreeBMD again, in the June quarter of 1840 there is a Richard Glasson born in 1840 at Redruth district. So the birth certificate for that Richard says that he was born on the 7th June 1840 at North Row, Redruth and that he was the son of John Glasson, miner and Honour nee Bishop. So now he is definitely not Richard Penberthy Glasson.

So, my suggestion is that, he was born Richard and from that point on commonly known as Charles.

But, after the marriage to Amelia, he never appears in another census, as Charles or Richard - Amelia is always either married and home alone until 1901 when she says that she is a widow. In 1861 Charles/Richard was probably away overseas and after his marriage, the addition of a few children - Mary Louisa, William John, Richard Henry and Bertha, twins, and more twins Amelia Owens and Annie (one week old in 1871 census) he was off again - assuming of course that they were all his.

It is worthy of note that Richard (Charles), and brothers James, Thomas and Joseph all seem to move away after 1851 census.

Appreciate any thoughts.

Lannanta

[Cornish Terrier]

Yet another curious case Watson!

If the Birth Certificate says Richard was the son of John and Honor then you would expect that he was the son of John and Honor.

BUT - I have at least one Birth Certificate that records the names of the parents of the child when in fact those named ARE NOT the actual parents.

It is certainly curious that there is no Richard but there is a Charles in the household of John and Honor Glasson in 1841 and 1851 and that this Charles age reflects his birth to be about 1840.

But if Charles was actually Richard then why was Richard consistently known as Charles for at least 11 years?

BTW - who was the informant when the birth of Richard was registered?

It is a concern that neither Charles nor Richard can be found in the 1861 Census but otherwise everything seems to suggest your theory must be correct.

But I am going to remain a little sceptical just for a while!

CT

[Deleted]

CT

But if Charles was actually Richard then why was Richard consistently known as Charles for at least 11 years?

Actually it is not all that unusual in the Glasson family in my experience.

My father was Arthur Norman, always called Norman. He was named after his uncle Fredrick Norman Glasson - also always known as Norman - even in his war records.

The informant at Richard's birth was his father - John Glasson.

Lannanta

[Deleted]

CT

It is a concern that neither Charles nor Richard can be found in the 1861 Census but otherwise everything seems to suggest your theory must be correct.

Shouldn't be too surprising that he is missing in 1861 as so are quite a few of his brothers - prime candidates for overseas employment. And then home to marry a Cornish girl.

I think that the 1841 census is most telling. A one year old son Charles in the household, wholly consistent with the birth certificate reflecting that son to be Richard.

Lannanta

[Cornish Terrier]

Lannanta - there is a difference between Charles/Richard and your own father when it comes to 'known name' scenarios.

Your father had two Given Names to start with and it is not unusual in any family for the second of those names to be used rather than the first.

But with the son of Richard and Honor there is no second given name involved.

Registered as Richard then known as Charles then married as Richard.

It would be interesting to see the Baptism record I think.

BTW - all children of Richard and Amelia were baptised at Phillack with Amelia and Ann both having Owens as a second name.

Annie was buried at Phillack 28th June 1871 age 3 months (of Ventonleague).
Amelia was buried at Phillack 31st January 1875 age 4 (of Church Street).

CT

[Deleted]

Agreed.

While the issue of Charles becoming Richard is not too hard to see as a name change, I am not so sure now about the marriage of Richard to Amelia Whear in 1862.

The reason is quite simply that Richard Penberthy Glasson was still in Cornwall in 1861, at St Erth. Makes the marriage age a couple of years out. But the interesting thing is that the first child of Richard and Amelia was Mary Louisa, and Richard Penberthy Glasson, son of John, had a sister named Mary Louisa Glasson.

Lannanta

[Deleted]

CT

BTW - all children of Richard and Amelia were baptised at Phillack with Amelia and Ann both having Owens as a second name.

Annie was buried at Phillack 28th June 1871 age 3 months (of Ventonleague).
Amelia was buried at Phillack 31st January 1875 age 4 (of Church Street).

Interesting comments because in FreeBMD Annie does not have a second name in either her birth entry or her death entry, nor does she have Owen in her baptism entry. As for the twin she was given the name Emily Owen at birth and the death entry is Amelia Vineys. Emily does also have credence given that in the 1861 census Amelia is at home with a sister Emily. Not really a lot ofconsistency anywhere that I can see.

Actually I wonder if there was a Mr Owens around Phillack in those days??

Lannanta

[Cornish Terrier]

Ah - so Amelia Whear's husband was not necessarily the son of John and Honor!

I am going to have to look at this again.

As for the twin daughters - the Transcript of Phillack Baptisms shows both Amelia and Annie with the second name of Owens.
Based on your own comments I now wonder if there might be a little bit of Excel 'Autofill' involved in the record I have seen.

The burials merely show 'Amelia' and 'Annie'.

CT

[Deleted]

CT

Ah - so Amelia Whear's husband was not necessarily the son of John and Honor!

On reflection, no.

The marriage entry gives Richard's age as 22 and the wedding was on December 14th 1862. He was a copper miner, the son of John, a copper miner. His residence at the time of marriage was Ventonleague, but I cannot find him there in the 1861 census.

So this Richard could be the Charles we referred to before, son of John Penhalle Glasson and Honor Bishop, born 1840 at Redruth.

Or, he could be Richard Penberthy Glasson, born around 1838, a copper miner at St Erth, son of John Glasson and Ann Penberthy.

Both John's were copper miners.

The age points him towards the first and the name points him towards the second.

I am now tending to the latter, so I need to find where the two families emigrated to and see if I can find a burial for a Richard which states the names of his parents.

Lannanta

[Cornish Terrier]

I will have a look this afternoon and see if I can find anything in Australia or the US.

I could also try Canada but resources are a little more scarce.

CT

[Deleted]

CT

I would appreciate that. I have had a bit of a look and noted that the marriage of a Charles Glasson in Victoria in 1861 was the son of John Glasson and Fanny Willoughby and he died there in 1904.

I also found a Charles born around 1841 as an 'able seaman' on a ship (Benlomond?) visiting NSW in 1866.

Other than that nothing that I could pin my hat on. Bill Glasson in Oz has some web comments where he says that some of John Penhalle Glassons family went to Grass Valley in the USofA and one at least to Oz, but he has not responded to my email as yet.

Lannanta

[Cornish Terrier]

I saw the NSW visitor of 1866 when I was looking around yesterday but there does not seem to be anything to help identify him. I think he was just a crew member on the vessel but if he could be tracked down on other voyages something might eventually be found.

Grass Valley can be checked easily enough in the Census and if I am lucky there might be a couple of other odds and ends available.

CT

[Deleted]

CT

I did see a death in Sth Aust for Mary Louisa Glasson, in 1906, born about 1866, which sort of fits the daughter of Richard and Amelia.

Can I get access to SA death records?

Lannanta

[Cornish Terrier]

Unfortunately the SA Indexes are still only available on CD for purchase from what I can find out.

www.jaunay.com/bdm.html

This link should give you a table showing what you can expect to find on the different Certificates for each State although I don't know what use it might be to you right at this moment.

I have a copy of the Indexes but unfortunately they are less forthcoming than Victoria with the information provided.

Mary Louisa Glasson age 40 died at Baroota, South Australia 24th August 1906
District - Fro
Book - 321
Page - 171

The index does provide a column for 'Relative' but in this case there is none recorded.

I did have a look at the US Census earlier but with no real success.

An interrruption for a callout to a supposed burnoff out of control took up a little time but .........

Without attempting all the possible variations of the name I could find only one 'possible' match for the family of John and Honor.
That was for a Joseph Glasson who had been born in Engladn about 1846.

But with Joseph s/o John and Honor baptised in 1844 I would be a little dubious about this one.

No sign of Richard or Charles or any others that looked remotely like the family.

I have also checked the Victorian Death Indexes but again nothing showing.

CT

[Deleted]

CT

It is possible that he or they are elsewhere.

I think I migt try a cerificate for one of the children and if lady luck is one my side it may give the child's fathers name in full.

Might be best to put it on the back burner for awhile as I am sure that you have plenty to do.

Lannanta