Quick, Allen, Shugg

[rowena]

HI Folks

Jane Quick Allen married William Stevens Shugg Oct-Dec 1905, Penzance RD. I'd like to try and find out more about her parents. What I've been provided by a family member is:

Jane Quick Allen born 13 Aug 1887, St Ives to Elizabeth Allen and Joseph Quick. Her parents apparently didn't marry. Under the birth registration Elizabeth is named Elizabeth Quick, formerly Allen, father Joseph Quick.

In the 1891 Census Jane Quick Allen is age 5, born St Ives, and is in the home of her grandparents Joseph C. Allen, 60, fisherman, employed, born Ludgvan, and his wife Grace, 62, born St Ives, residence: Beach Rd, St Ives. I found a marriage for Joseph Allen and Grace Stevens, Oct-Dec 1855 Penzance RD, which seems likely.

The 1881 Census shows Bessie Allen, 11, born St Ives, at home with her parents Joseph Allen, 50 fisherman, born Ludgvan, wife Grace, 54, born St Ives, sister Grace 15, sister Kate Peters 20 and her husband and son. Form this the likely birth registration for Elizabeth / Bessie Allen is Apr-Jun 1870, Penzance RD.

There are a number of Joseph Quick's born in the Penzance RD, so unsure where to go with him. FreeCEN doesn't seem to be throwing up anything useful. I'm wondering if anyone has researched Joseph Quicks around this period and can identify him?

I don't have access to the 1901 Census, but have been given the following:
census 1901 The Stennack [ indexing Allen]
Elizabeth Allen , h, 31, charwoman , of St Ives b 1870.
Jane , Q, . Dau ,14, B. 1887.
Thirza, Dau, 8, Calliton--[Callington ?] Cornwall 1893.
Thos, son, 7, Bideford, Dev. 1894.
Ida, Dau, 4, Madron b. 1897

FreeBMD shows:
Allen, Thirza Jane born Jan-Mar 1897, Plympton RD
Allen, Ida born Jul-Sep 1897, Penzance RD

So Elizabeth Allen is using Allen at this time. I don't know who the children were fathered by.

Any further help would be much appreciated.
Kind regards, Rowena

[Cornish Terrier]

First piece of useful information:-

Ida daughter of Elizabeth ALLEN, single woman of St Ives Workhouse, baptised 20th September 1898 at Madron (born 8th September 1897)

This entry is on the OPC site.

Will see what more I can find.

Hmm - I think I should point out that there is a slight error in the identification of a Birth record for Thirza!

In the 1901 Census she is age 8 and I very much doubt five years would have gone by before her birth was registered!

I think this is more likely the one:-

THERSA Allen
Launceston R.D.
1892 September Qtr
Vol 5c Page 27

CT

[Cornish Terrier]

A little more on the Allen side.

Joseph Benjamin Champion ALLEN , mariner of St Ives, married Grace Stevens 15th November 1855 at St Ives

Grace was bp. 16th November 1827 St Ives d/o George Stevens and Catherine (nee Webber)

Joseph Benjamin Champion Allen was bp. 20th September 1831 Ludgvan bastard son of Elizabeth Allen

A common theme here!

Reputed father was named as Joseph CHAMPION.

CT

[Cornish Terrier]

For Joseph Quick I only have one reasonable suspect at the moment although it appears there may be at least one more that I have not yet recorded.

Joseph Quick born 1862 St Ives son of Joseph and Jane (nee Veal)

He was a mariner and married Sarah Ann Champion in 1895 which is about 8 years after Jane Quick Allen was born.

The use of the name Jane Quick might be significant given that was the name of Joseph's mother.

CT

[Sarch]

Hi CT

Joseph Quick who married Jane Veal


Would they be Joseph Quick son of Israel Quick and Jane Allen
and
Jane Veal daughter of Peter Veal and Grace Rouse ?

Grace Veal daughter of Peter Veal and Grace Rouse married Paul Quick


Sarch

[Cornish Terrier]

Hi Sarch - yes, that would be them.

Joseph and Jane were married 22nd June 1862 at St Ives with Peter Veal and Sarah Veal as witnesses.

CT

[Sarch]

-Thanks CT

I have wondered about Joseph Quick and Jane Veal as the Marriage has father Israel's occupation as carpenter when on the other children's marriages it has occupation as shipwright

22 Jun 1862 by Banns
Joseph Quick 28 bachelor Mariner of St. Ives (Father: Israel Quick, Carpenter)
Jane Veal 29 spinster of St. Ives (Father: Peter Veal, Mariner)
Witnesses: Peter Veal, Sarah Veal

Joseph's occupation on marriage is also given as Mariner but on 1851 Census it is Shipwright so I was not sure if these Josephs were the same. ;D

When did Joseph die? In the census Jane is a widow in 1881 but the only Joseph that sort of fits age wise on FreeBMD died in W.Derby aged 44 in 1877?

Regards

Sarch

[Cornish Terrier]

A mere technicality! ;D

From the Collins English Dictionary:-
Shipwright n. a carpenter actively engaged in building or repairing ships.

And if you have another close look at the 1851 Census you will find all the sons still at home were Shipwrights - Charles, Joseph, Matthew and Paul.

But if you take a look at the marriage record for Matthew when he married Fanny Harry Gyles his occupation was ..... TAILOR!

At this point I don't know when Joseph died or where but I would think it less than likely the 1877 event at W.Derby is the one.

In 1851 there was another Joseph of the same age at Fazakerley, Lancashire which is much more likely to be the one.

There was also another Joseph just a year younger at Tiverton in Devon.

In 1861 the same Joseph is still in Lancashire so I would suggest it is probably him who died in 1877.

As a mariner/fisherman it is quite possible that Joseph was lost at sea so we may find nothing unless there is something in the West Briton.

CT

[Cornish Terrier]

I have found the other Joseph Quick who may have been responsible for Jane Quick Allen!

I do not yet have him recorded as there is still some confusion over the identity of his father along with a couple of other anomalies.

However - Joseph Quick born Truro c.1853/4 son of Israel and Elizabeth.

Lannanta and I had some discussion on this a long time back and I do not recall a satisfactory resolution but an outline will be useful.

In the 1861 Census at Marazion

Israel QUICK, head, mar, 48, mine smith but now a lodging house keeper, born St Ives, blind 18 years
Elizabeth do., wife, mar, 48, Zenor
Thomas R do., son, 19, tin & copper miner, Madron
JOSEPH do., son, 7, scholar, Truro

I think we worked out that there was only one person Israel could be and that his age in this Census was wrong.

More than likely he was bp. 30th August 1818 St Ives son of Israel Quick and Jane (nee Allen) and buried 18th March 1874 at Helston age 58.

I will check a few more details before posting any further I think.

CT

[Cornish Terrier]

In the 1851 Census the aforementioned Israel Quick (blind) was at Camborne.

He was then a Black smith age 36, born St Ives, and 'blind'.

With him is wife Elizabeth who stated she was age 30 and born St Ives.

But there are no children with them.

In 1871 Elizabeth and son Joseph are at Marazion.
Elizabeth now gives her birthplace as Lannar, Gwennap and says she is 57.

She also says she is still married.

Israel now cannot be found! - and nor can son Thomas!

Looks like I will have to search the old threads to find all the details on this lot.

Bottom line is that we have another candidate for Joseph even though he would have been about 16 years older than Elizabeth Allen.

CT

[Deleted]

CT

These are my notes on the "blind" Israel.

In the 1841 census Israel, aged 23, smith, was living at Stennack at St Ives and was at the house of James and Mary Sisley.

In the 1851 census Israel was living at a lodging house in Gas Street, Camborne which was kept by a widow Jane Morshead. Israel was said to be aged 36, a blacksmith from St Ives and blind. He ws also said to be married to Elizabeth Quick, however there marriage is unlikely to be correct. Also living at this lodging house were a number of members of the Richards family - John aged 35 and Thomas aged 11 - it is likely that these people are related to Elizabeth. It is interesting to know that the lodging house was referred to as one that was for "tramps".

In the 1861 census Israel and Elizabeth are living at Fore Street at Marazion with their 19 year old son Thomas R. and Joseph aged 7. Israel is stated to be a 48 year old lodging house keeper born in St Ives although previously a mine smith and had been blind for 18 years. Elizabeth was also said to be 48 years of age and from Zennor. It is clear that Thomas could not have been a son of Israel's, however he is likely to be the young Thomas Richards living with the couple in the 1851 census at Camborne. Joseph is likely to be their son although his birth occurred before their marriage in 1855.

Israel cannot be found in the 1871 census although he was still alive albeit not living with his family at home. Elizabeth and son Joseph were still at the lodging house in Marazion.

Married by banns on 10th September 1855.
Israel Quick, aged 39, bachelor, hawker living at East End, son of Israel Quick carpenter.

Elizabeth Ann Richards, aged 41, living at East End, daughter of John Richards

I have Israel buried on the 18th March 1874 at Helston.

Lannanta

[Cornish Terrier]

Lannanta - that matches what I know.

You may have noticed that I have 'resurrected' the relevant threads under the Quick Surname.

Given we have not yet positively identified which Joseph was involved with Elizabeth Allen I propose that we continue discussion about this particular fella under the Quick Threads.

CT

[rowena]

Thank you for all your help with the Allen and Quicks linked to the Shugg family I've been researching.

Shall have to find your resurrected Quick thread and follow. Tricky Quicks.

I thought I would note down the children of William Stevens Shugg and Jane Quick Allen to round off.

7. William Stevens SHUGG born c.1883, Cape Town, South Africa. His parents were William Bryant Shugg born Apr-June 1846 St Ives, and Mary Stevens bapt. 13 may 1849 St Ives. He was noted in the 1901 Census as age 18, occupation mason. years. William worked on St Ives Post Office, Smeaton’s Pier, etc. All alignments were done with the eye. He said that "any fool needing a plumb bob was no builder". In 1891 he was recorded living at 27 Stennack. In 1936 he was living in Trenwith Row when he built the Brig Y Don on The Wharf, St Ives. He died c.1963 (unable to find matching entry on FreeBMD).
Married Jane Quick Allen born 13 Aug 1887, St Ives, to parents Joseph Quick and Elizabeth Allen, who never married. She was bapt. 2 Sep 1887, St Ives mother Bessie, residence Beach, of Customs Ho. 1887, St Ives. Married Oct – Dec 1905, Penzance Reg. District. She was known as Janie. After William died she went to live in Western Australia. She died at age 84 years, in 1971, Thornlie, Perth, and is buried with her daughter Janet at Karrakatta Cemetery, Perth, Western Aust.

Children of William Stevens Shugg & Jane Quick Allen:
8. Janet (Nettie) Shugg born 12 Sep 1907, Penzance Reg. District. Janet died aged 75 years in 1983, Redcliffe, Perth and was buried in Karrakatta Cemetery, Perth, Western Australia.
+William Paynter Uren born Jan-Mar 1905, Penzance Reg. District. Married 17 Dec 1934, Halsetown, Cornwall. They emigrated to Australia, and lived at 10a Graham Crescent, Belmont, in West Australia. He died aged 79 years in 1984, Armadale, Perth, Western Australia.

8. Mary Stevens Shugg born Jul – Sep 1909, Penzance Reg. District, Cornwall. Mary caught TB from her husband and died on 21 May 1942, aged 34 years. (unable to find matching entry on FreeBMD)
+ Francis Henry Clifford Nicholas born Apr-Jun 1911, Penzance Reg. District. Married Jul-Sep 1936, Penzance Reg. Dist. His occupation was as a motor driver. He died from TB aged 28 years, Jan-Mar 1939 Shoreditch Reg. District (Shoreditch spans the boundaries of the counties of London and Middlesex).

8. William Bryant Stevens Shugg, born 16 Mar 1913, Penzance Reg District. Lived in Helston c.1980’s. (unable to find death record)8. Maurice Allen Shugg born 25 Nov 1925 St Ives, Cornwall. He was married late in life to a Janet, and son William was born in 1976. He died 18 Oct 2007, Mevagissy, Cornwall.

8. Gordon Allen Shugg born Jan-Mar 1929, St Ives, Cornwall. He was killed in a motor bike accident near Penzance in Mar 1946. (unable to find this on FreeBMD)

If anyone can plug any other fine holes in this research, I'm happy to hear from them.

Kind regards, Rowena

[Sarch]

Hi

It is possible that Thomas R Quick in the 1861 census was the bastard son of Elizabeth Richards - in 1851 census he is Thomas Richards aged 11

I found this entry in the Madron Baptisms
1 May 1844 Thomas s/o Elizabeth Richards (Spinster) of
Union Workhouse from Ludgvan illegitimate

Could Thomas have married under the Richards surname meaning that he was never formally adopted by Israel?

Here is a leap in the dark and is probably not correct but just a thought
St Hillary, 27 Sep 1862 Banns
Thomas Richards (marked) 20 Miner Marazion [father Dead, Husbandman]
Elizabeth Edmonds (marked) 18 Marazion [father James Edmonds, Miner]
Witnesses: James Edmonds, Thomas Bray



Sarch

[Cornish Terrier]

Rowena - I have brought the relevant Quick threads to the top of the list so you should find them easily enough.

Sarch - that could be the right baptism and given I have so far not been able to find any further record of Thomas after the 1861 Census the marriage might also be his.

But I am not convinced that John Richards (age 35) or Thomas (age 11) lodging at the same place as Israel and Elizabeth Quick in 1851 are any connection to Elizabeth.

Until the Joseph linked to Elizabeth Allen is identified further discussion about this one will take place in the Quick Thread.

CT