Post by sue on Mar 17, 2010 13:43:03 GMT -5
Following on from the discussion under the thread "I Can't Believe It" under Curnows, before I fully settle for Elizabeth Bolitho who married William Curnow 13 August 1799 Towednack being Elizabeth daughter of James baptised 30/8/1779 Morvah - on Heather's OPC website transcribed from IGI film - I am having a wee niggling doubt, that I think was why I didn't previously go for this definitely being the right Elizabeth Bolitho.
With cap in hand, may I lay out the facts as I see them.
1. William Curnow my ancestor marries young age about 20 to Elizabeth Bolitho 13 August 1799. It would be natural for his wife to be of a similarly young age - Elizabeth baptised Morvah son of James Bolitho 30 August 1779 would be the same age, 20. Good fit. And I have found no other real candidates to be this Elizabeth - but that doesn't mean there aren't any.
2. William's only adult brother, James Curnow, marries Dorothy Bolitho 25 October 1811. She is stated to be of Gulval. In censuses she is declared as born Morvah.
3. Dorothy Bolitho baptised 2 November 1787 daughter of James Bolitho in Morvah, just like Elizabeth. Taking 2. & 3. together, it looks like 2 brothers married 2 sisters.
4. In between these 2 girls we have Jane baptised 1 June 1783; Walter 16 October 1785; then later a Thomas Bolitho baptises his 1st child at Morvah in 1806, called James - therefore I expect he is also a child of James Bolitho. This is perhaps relevant when we come to naming patterns below. There will be other earlier children to James Bolitho & wife Mary James, given marriage date of 1868.
5. Getting back to the marriage of William Curnow to Elizabeth Curnow, the husband lives to a fair age in the Towednack vicinity - in 1841 census he is c60 in Halsetown, a tin dresser; residing with a Mary Bolitho c15, servant. In 1851 census he is still in Halsetown, 72, tin dresser, widower, residing as a lodger with the family of his brother's son James and his wife Margery (2nd wife I think, but that is another wee tangle that I would like to deal with separately - I am thinking this James may have married his cousin..... in which case my William age 72 is living with his nephew who is now married to his daughter...) My actual point here is that William is a widow, and that Elizabeth Bolitho his wife did a sterling job bearing 11 children from 1800 through to 1823, but died before reaching an age where censuses would tell us her place of birth.
6. William & Elizabeth's children: this is my dilemma. I know naming pattern are only a help in identifying parents' families, but I find this one a little strange;
1st child 1800 is a boy = William - father's father (& also father)
2nd child 1802 a boy = Thomas - mother's brother..../father's father's brother
3rd child 1804 is a girl = Elizabeth - mother...
4th child 1806 is a girl = Margery - father's mother
5th child 1808 is a girl = Honor.....?
6th child 1810 is a girl = Mary - mother's mother?
7th child 1813 is a girl = Jane - both parents have a sister called Jane
8th child 1815 is a boy = John - eldest brother of father
9th child 1818 is a boy = James - mother's father?? Also father's 2nd brother
10th child 1821 is a boy = Michael ...
11th child 1823 is a boy = Robert...
It seems the parents followed tradition in using William's family names - 1st born son takes father's father's name, 2nd born daughter takes father's mother's name, 3rd born son takes father's eldest brother's name. Yet they did not follow the strict tradition in using Elizabeth's family names, in that if she is Elizabeth daughter of James Bolitho and Mary James, this would mean 1st born daughter should be baptised Mary, and 2nd born son should be baptised James. Yes, these names are used, but for later children - and James at number 9 bothers me slightly.
Perhaps there is other information I do not have about this Elizabeth Bolitho that would negate my nagging doubt about the naming pattern.... and perhaps the naming pattern just meant she didn't like her parents a lot, I don't know.....
Any thoughts?
Sue
With cap in hand, may I lay out the facts as I see them.
1. William Curnow my ancestor marries young age about 20 to Elizabeth Bolitho 13 August 1799. It would be natural for his wife to be of a similarly young age - Elizabeth baptised Morvah son of James Bolitho 30 August 1779 would be the same age, 20. Good fit. And I have found no other real candidates to be this Elizabeth - but that doesn't mean there aren't any.
2. William's only adult brother, James Curnow, marries Dorothy Bolitho 25 October 1811. She is stated to be of Gulval. In censuses she is declared as born Morvah.
3. Dorothy Bolitho baptised 2 November 1787 daughter of James Bolitho in Morvah, just like Elizabeth. Taking 2. & 3. together, it looks like 2 brothers married 2 sisters.
4. In between these 2 girls we have Jane baptised 1 June 1783; Walter 16 October 1785; then later a Thomas Bolitho baptises his 1st child at Morvah in 1806, called James - therefore I expect he is also a child of James Bolitho. This is perhaps relevant when we come to naming patterns below. There will be other earlier children to James Bolitho & wife Mary James, given marriage date of 1868.
5. Getting back to the marriage of William Curnow to Elizabeth Curnow, the husband lives to a fair age in the Towednack vicinity - in 1841 census he is c60 in Halsetown, a tin dresser; residing with a Mary Bolitho c15, servant. In 1851 census he is still in Halsetown, 72, tin dresser, widower, residing as a lodger with the family of his brother's son James and his wife Margery (2nd wife I think, but that is another wee tangle that I would like to deal with separately - I am thinking this James may have married his cousin..... in which case my William age 72 is living with his nephew who is now married to his daughter...) My actual point here is that William is a widow, and that Elizabeth Bolitho his wife did a sterling job bearing 11 children from 1800 through to 1823, but died before reaching an age where censuses would tell us her place of birth.
6. William & Elizabeth's children: this is my dilemma. I know naming pattern are only a help in identifying parents' families, but I find this one a little strange;
1st child 1800 is a boy = William - father's father (& also father)
2nd child 1802 a boy = Thomas - mother's brother..../father's father's brother
3rd child 1804 is a girl = Elizabeth - mother...
4th child 1806 is a girl = Margery - father's mother
5th child 1808 is a girl = Honor.....?
6th child 1810 is a girl = Mary - mother's mother?
7th child 1813 is a girl = Jane - both parents have a sister called Jane
8th child 1815 is a boy = John - eldest brother of father
9th child 1818 is a boy = James - mother's father?? Also father's 2nd brother
10th child 1821 is a boy = Michael ...
11th child 1823 is a boy = Robert...
It seems the parents followed tradition in using William's family names - 1st born son takes father's father's name, 2nd born daughter takes father's mother's name, 3rd born son takes father's eldest brother's name. Yet they did not follow the strict tradition in using Elizabeth's family names, in that if she is Elizabeth daughter of James Bolitho and Mary James, this would mean 1st born daughter should be baptised Mary, and 2nd born son should be baptised James. Yes, these names are used, but for later children - and James at number 9 bothers me slightly.
Perhaps there is other information I do not have about this Elizabeth Bolitho that would negate my nagging doubt about the naming pattern.... and perhaps the naming pattern just meant she didn't like her parents a lot, I don't know.....
Any thoughts?
Sue
; & 2ndly, I had forgotten I had credits on a site which includes PRs 