oz
Noweth
Posts: 11
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Post by oz on Aug 18, 2009 18:43:31 GMT -5
Hi to all Researching the surnames THOMAS, PEARCE and WILLIAMS. I live in Australia (if you could not guess with a name like 'oz') and have been researching my family tree for some years now with my research now concentraing around the Parishes of Phillack and St Erth. My particular family of Thomas's I am researching at the moment is one John Thomas born c1798 who married Elizabeth Pearce on 3 June 1820 in Phillack Cornwall. I am hitting brick walls with trying to find the parents of John as the Parish records on the website Genuki only list bride and groom for the year 1820 and so hence my reason for joining your forum. I am looking forward to sharing info on my direct line which is the Thomas's and perhaps finding unknown cousins. bye for now.
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Post by Cornish Terrier on Aug 18, 2009 23:41:44 GMT -5
G'day Oz and welcome to Penwith Genealogy. Will do my best to try and work out who John was but it appears there is an immediate problem. There were two men named John Thomas who each had a wife named Elizabeth. One (yours I believe) was a mason and the other a miner but they were both baptising children at Phillack around the same time. John the mason baptised Elizabeth in 1820. John the miner baptised Elizabeth in 1821. I am starting to add the immediate family of John and Elizabeth to my database so that I can see the picture a little better and will see what I can find from there. CT
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oz
Noweth
Posts: 11
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Post by oz on Aug 19, 2009 1:58:34 GMT -5
Hi Cornish Terrier Thankyou, I did not expect a reply so quick. I can give you more info, my Thomas is the mason and he married Elizabeth Pearce. They had 12 children
Elizabeth THOMAS bap 20 August Ventonlege bur 9 Feb 1821 John Pearce THOMAS bap 27 Jan 1822 Hallankene (mason) William THOMAS bap 31 Aug 1823 Hallankene (mason) - my D/Line. William & Maria Williams+ 2 children left UK 1849. Thomas THOMAS bap 7 Nov Ventonlege bur 11 Mar 1825 VBentonleague Elizabeth THOMAS bap 25 Dec 1825 bur 10 Feb Ventonleague 1829 Mary THOMAS bap 8 Apr 1827 bur 14 Apr 1831 Phillack Thomas Pearce THOMAS bap 23 Nov 1828 bur 31 Aug 1829 Hallenken Richard Pearce THOMAS bap 18 Jul 1830 Zacharias THOMAS bap 30 Oct 1831 Mary Ellen THOMAS bap 12 May 1833 bur 6 Sep 1834 Miriam THOMAS bap 17 Aug 1834 bur 13 Oct 1834 and Ellen THOMAS bap 23 Jul 1837 bur 3 Dec 1837
There are other children in the baptisms about this time to the other John and Elizabeth Thomas (her maiden name was CHEGISIN) with John listed as a miner. I have already come across one incorrect tree on the Rootsweb site that lists the above children as belonging to John & Elizabeth (Chegisin) Thomas, the person listed mine and completely missed the correct ones. I tried to contact them but the contact email address did not work.
Having said all that I think I have found the baptism for John as being bap 12 Feb 1798 in Phillack which lists parents as being a William & Jane Gundrey or Gundry. I found a marriage for a William & Jane Gundry in Phillack on 2 May 1795. Again no parents mentioned. I am currently trying to prove that William & Jane are indeed the parents of my John.
I believe William died 17 Jul 1851 abode Luggans, he was 78 which I would put his birth date at around 1773. Jane I believe died 9 June 1837 aged 61 at Bodriggy. I have several other Jane's who could also qualify.
William and Jane had 6 children most dying young but I found two surviving sons James and a Henry with James's wife being Elizabeth in the 1841 census at Luggans. Again I found them in the 1851 census but William was also there, W 78, retired sea captain and lists the place of birth as Gwennap. To good to be true, I found a William that fitted in Gwennap bap 25 Apr 1773 parents William & Mary. I thought I was on a roll here.
But, alas all fell to pieces when I came across another William Thomas bap in Phillack 2 May 1773 parents Henry and Marha DONYTHORNE.
So you see firstly I need to prove parents for John Thomas who married Elizabeth Pearce 3 Jun 1820 in Phillack, are they William & Jane Grundry or another couple with the wife's last name as NOEL I think?
This is the brick wall I am currently trying to get over! Any help greatly appreciated.
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Post by Cornish Terrier on Aug 19, 2009 5:09:38 GMT -5
Owyagoin Oz (I'm from there too!). Right - I have just spent a couple of hours working through and locating the family so that I could build myself a bit of a picture. I picked the 'mason' as yours very early and worked from there. I have come to the conclusion that your John was certainly the son of William Thomas and Jane Gundry. The key (at least for me) is the fact that John named a son Zacharias. William and Jane had a son of that name so that is the link for me. I will do a bit more work shortly to see if I can positively identify William and Jane for you. Do you know much about the Pearce side? I have also had a look at that and am now quite sure of Elizabeth's parents. Elizabeth bp. 14th April 1800 Phillack d/o Thomas and Elizabeth Pearce Thomas Pearce of Phillack married Elizabeth Thomas 6th February 1796 at Gwinear. Right - let me see what I can do about William and Jane. CT
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Post by Cornish Terrier on Aug 19, 2009 6:36:32 GMT -5
Certainly a possibility but there is another that is an equal candidate. Jane Thomas of Venton League age 65 buried buried 19th February 1830 at Phillack. These would be the only two at Phillack that I would consider. Son John and his family were certainly at Bodriggy in 1837 which adds favour to your own choice. In 1830 John was at Hallankene but had been at Ventonleague a couple of years prior to that. We seem to be limited with baptisms for Jane/Jenifer Gundry with only a couple around the right time to match those burials. There was one at Gwinear in 1764 and one at Wendron in 1765 but the one I favour right now is:- Jenefer d/o John and Mary Gundry bp. 17th April 1767 Lelant Parents 'could' be John Gundry, tinner of St Agnes married Mary Arthur 1st March 1756 at Lelant. The first of their children baptised at Lelant was not until 1760 but this could still be the right family. One reason why I favour this family is because they named two sons Henry and this was a name used by William and Jane Thomas. Inconclusive but .... Now for William Thomas. Here is a family I have just put together for your perusal :- Willm. THOMAS married Mary WARNE (Wearne) 31st May 1772 Camborne William bp. 25th April 1773 Gwennap Zacharias bp. 8th March 1781 Phillack Grace bp. 6th March 1785 Phillack Notes:- There are no children at Camborne for William and Mary through 1774. After William there are no further children at Gwennap for William and Mary Thomas through until at least 1780. The first appearance in IGI for Zacharias in the Thomas family is 1781 at Phillack so I would suggest the name comes from the maternal side. Now try this:- Mary d/o Zacharias and Mary wearn bp. 2nd June 1745 Phillack Zacharias WEARNE married Mary CARTHEW 22nd October 1737 Phillack I think you can safely tuck William away as the one baptised at Gwennap in 1773! ;D My database now reflects all the above. CT
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oz
Noweth
Posts: 11
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Post by oz on Aug 19, 2009 7:22:28 GMT -5
Hi Cornish Terrier
Wow, all this so quick. I have printed what you have found and will digest it over the next couple of days.
Re the Pearce's again you are on the right track, parents for Thomas and Elizabeth Pearce are William Pearce marrying a Miriam Ellis 30 Sept 1765 in St Erth. Miriam died 5 Dec 1781. William and Miriam had 5 children (note: Miriam the name also belongs to the 11th child of John & Elizabeth (Pearce) Thomas)
William married again on 15 Feb 1783 to an Ann Vine. William and Ann had 6 children.
Re children for Thomas and Elizabeth (Thomas) Pearce, I have found 13 children between the years 1797 and 1820. If you would like all the details let me know and I will send.
Thank you again for all your help.
oz
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oz
Noweth
Posts: 11
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Post by oz on Aug 19, 2009 7:33:58 GMT -5
Hi Just adding my pic. cheers oz Attachments:
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Post by Cornish Terrier on Aug 19, 2009 7:46:57 GMT -5
G'day mate - no need to send the additional data at this stage. You have supplied enough for me to be able to locate the data I need from PR transcripts I have available. I meant to comment on the name of Miriam also as from what I have seen it was not a very common name. (Now I have said that there will be multitudes of them I suppose! ) The one thing I did mean to mention was that Miriam occurred in another Pearce family at Phillack. William Pearce married Charity Pryor at Phillack 5th July 1794 There is a three-year gap before the first child I have found for William and Charity. Miriam d/o William and Charity Pearce bp. 3rd June 1798 Phillack I suspect William was probably a brother to Thomas. Mary d/o William and Charity was bp. 28th May 1803 at Phillack and married Paul QUICK at Zennor 29th August 1826. Mary died at Bristol, Gloucestershire 3rd October 1841 "after a long and painful illness". CT
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Post by Cornish Terrier on Aug 19, 2009 7:52:07 GMT -5
I said it! Just checked my database to see if I 'might' have a potential Miriam Ellis available. Got SIX of them recorded!! But I think the one who married William Pearce was probably baptised at St Erth 29th July 1741 d/o Thomas and Mary for whom I am yet to find a marriage. CT
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Post by Cornish Terrier on Aug 19, 2009 7:58:25 GMT -5
Have had a look around and it looks probable that Thomas and Mary Ellis are the following:-
Thomas ELLIS married Mary STEVENS 24th June 1740 at Lelant
No baptisms for children at Lelant, Ludgvan or St Ives.
Thomas Ellis was baptised at Gwithian 26th July 1714 s/o Thomas Ellis and Ann Evah who married at Camborne 13th August 1709.
This Thomas had a sister named MIRIAM and it appears the name was carried down through the family.
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oz
Noweth
Posts: 11
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Post by oz on Aug 19, 2009 8:01:21 GMT -5
Hi Cornish Terrier I am gob smacked. Thankyou, so much to digest. I am not going to sleep tonight, the brain is really ticking. cheers oz
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Post by Cornish Terrier on Aug 19, 2009 9:59:44 GMT -5
One more for you! ;D
The first child of William and Miriam Pearce was named Charity.
William and Miriam/Ann had two further daughters with this name and all three died very young.
The message here is that Charity was most likely the name of William's mother.
The only William Pearce I can find (around the right time) with a mother named Charity was baptised at Wendron in 1738 which would have made him about 27 when married Miriam.
William s/o William and Charity Pearce bp. 12th November 1738 Wendron
William PEARCE married Charity DUNSTONE 17th June 1738 at Wendron.
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oz
Noweth
Posts: 11
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Post by oz on Aug 23, 2009 22:45:06 GMT -5
Hi CT The family you put together for the Thomas's for me to look at appears very promising indeed However on the Grundy side I feel that this needs to be checked further, reasons for this is I found a Jane Gundry in the IGI at Sithney with a bap date abt 1775 parents Joseph Gundry and Honour May. If Jane was aged 61 when she died in 1837 I kind of thought that her birth date would be more around the 1776 date. When I try to check the baptismal dates for Sithney I strike problems as I am unable to access the dates I need in order to check. I feel that the Gundry side is not going to be easy. I am not sure if this is still the correct area to carry on with contact in the forum and whether it should now be in the queries area or not. Can you let me know CT You also may have noticed my attemps at putting my own Avatar on but without success, will use the penguin for now till I work it out. Thanks oz
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Post by Cornish Terrier on Aug 24, 2009 9:13:09 GMT -5
Ah!! - I see the problem. My working around the 1765 baptism was obviously based on the Jane Thomas buried in 1830 age 65. Seems I neglected to properly consider the Jane buried in 1837 age 61. In that case about 1775 or 1776 would be more correct. Will look at that in a moment. That would depend on exactly when she was born. If she were born from July onwards then 1775 would be okay as she would not turn 62 until after June 1837. Technically she would therefore be 61 - but that is also relying on everything being accurate! Of course things just do not work that way. And also remember that the person that is more likely to accurately know there age (the deceased) is no longer around to supply the information. Even today you will find incorrect information on a death certificate purely because it is all down to the knowledge of the informant. CT
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Post by Cornish Terrier on Aug 24, 2009 9:21:34 GMT -5
From Sithney PR Transcripts:- Jane d/o Joseph and Honor Gundry was buried at Sithney 12th January 1786 That lets her out! There is actually no Jane Gundry in IGI who is a close match to what you are looking for. There is also not a Jenifer around the right time - remembering that Jane and Jenifer were often interchangeable.
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