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Leggo
Aug 1, 2009 14:23:47 GMT -5
Post by tonymitch on Aug 1, 2009 14:23:47 GMT -5
Anyone out there researching 'Leggo'? I have a bit of a problem.... I have discovered that John William (possible should be William s) FURZE "Child of the late JW Furze" of S.Africa, was being "suitably maintained and educated" in 1904 by Eliza Leggo of Richmond Street Heamoor Penzance. In the 1901 Census John's grandmother Elizabeth Furze was living with the Leggo family in Fore Street St Just. There is no mention of Eliza Leggo and I cannot find any reference to her in the Census. Does anyone know of any connection between the Leggos and the Furze/Williams families? The only connection I can find at the moment is occupation. Elizabeth Furze is aged 58 and gives her occupation as a Nurse Domestic and we have a Jane Leggo aged 62 giving her occupation as a Monthly Nurse (incidentally, does anyone know what a 'Monthly Nurse' was). Jane was living at The Square St Just. Perhaps Elizabeth and Jane, both nurses, were friends and so little John was fostered by a family member of the Leggos. Another associated problem I have, and I don't expect anyone to have an answer, I simply mention it out of interest, is why was John being cared for in Penzance when his mother was in Boksburg S.Africa? There is a bit of a mystery here and it may have something to do with a possible murder.
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Leggo
Aug 1, 2009 15:44:21 GMT -5
Post by HeatherC on Aug 1, 2009 15:44:21 GMT -5
Hello there Monthy Nurse.......... was a person who attended woman during the first month after childbirth. In the Census you may find the letters SMS after their occupation which stood for Subsidiary Medical Services. There is an Eliza Jane LEGGO aged 53 in the Morvah census for 1911 (I have no other info on her). Best regards HeatherC Just updating this Also with Eliza Jane LEGGO in the 1911 is a Richard Leggo and in the 1901 Cenus I have found Madron, Main Street Richard Leggo, 40, Farmer (own account), born St Just Eliza Leggo, 33, wife, b St just Mabel, 9, dau, b St Just Mary, 8, dau, b St Just Grace, 7, dau, b St Just Keziah A, 5, b St Just Eva, 2, dau, b St Just JOHN W FURZE, Step-son, 8, b HeamoorErnest Bennetts, Serv, 18, b St just March Qtr 1898, Penzance MarriagesRichard LEGGOEliza FURZEMarch Qtr 1893 Penzance BirthsJohn WILLIAMS FURZEJune Qtr 1907, Penzance, Born abt 1893 DEATHSJohn Williams FURZEDec Qtr 1888, Penzance MarriagesJohn WILLIAMS FURZEEliza HOSKINGHeatherC
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Leggo
Aug 1, 2009 18:40:55 GMT -5
Post by tonymitch on Aug 1, 2009 18:40:55 GMT -5
Wow...thanks Heather......as usual, this raises more questions. To make things easier as we are refering to two people, father and son, who have the same names I'll refer to father as John Williams Furze and son as John W Furze. Looks like Eiza Furze who married Richard Leggo in 1898 could be the Eliza Furze aged 33 in the 1901 census. Don't know why I couldn't find them in my searches of the census. However, I have no record of Eliza at all...must look into it. The John Williams Furze and Mary Hosking who married in 1888 are definately the parents of the John W Furze aged 8 listed as stepson. The John W Furze who was the child in question was born 27 Dec 1893 and presumably died in 1907. However, John Williams Furze died in S. Africa in 1897 and his wife was also there with him. He was definately there in 1894 as there is a strong possibility that he was investgated for murder in the Transvaal then. I had thought that Eliza Furze emigrated to S.Africa in 1892 which is at least one year before she gave birth to her son a few thousand miles away. Back to the drawing board.
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Leggo
Aug 1, 2009 19:45:20 GMT -5
Post by Cornish Terrier on Aug 1, 2009 19:45:20 GMT -5
Now for my two bobs worth! First and foremost - from all the data supplied here along with my own look at each item in FreeBMD, Census etc. I have to say that in my own opinion ELIZA and MARY are one and the same person! Tony - you refer to John W Furze as definitely being the son of John Williams and Mary Furze. If you check FreeBMD then you will find no record of a MARY Hosking. But there is an ELIZA Hosking in the record along with John Williams Furze. You also say that John Williams Furze died in South Africa in 1897. Eliza Furze married Richard Leggo in 1898. And in the 1901 Census Richard Leggo (with Eliza now as his wife) has a 'step-son' by name of John W Furze in the household. And this John W Furze just happens to be 8 years old which pretty much matches the birth record you have. With this quote I am now going to say that my belief is that Eliza LEGGO was actually the mother of young John Williams Furze - and I believe this to be substantiated by the 1901 Census. Remember that, according to records, ELIZA HOSKING married John Williams Furze in the December Qtr of 1888. John Williams Furze died in South Africa in 1897. ELIZA FURZE married Richard LEGGO back in Cornwall in 1898. I do not believe you need to go hunting for a mysterious Eliza at all. But what I do need to know is - how does ELIZA become MARY?? You obviously have some record indicating that MARY was the mother of young John Williams Furze and you state that she was married as MARY HOSKING. Yet the only marriage record that can be found is for ELIZA Hosking. Here is what I have found for Eliza Hosking:- FreeBMD - 1867 December Qtr Vol 5c Page 320 Penzance R.D. Birth - Eliza HOSKING 1871 Census - living at Bostrase, St Just Parents - Thomas and Constance Thomas HOSKING married Constance EDDY 21st July 1860 St Just. Would appreciate knowing your sources for MARY being the name of young John Williams Furze's mother. Otherwise I think I have offered about all I can for now. CT
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Leggo
Aug 2, 2009 4:15:00 GMT -5
Post by tonymitch on Aug 2, 2009 4:15:00 GMT -5
CT......Just before I commit suicide I will tell you how Elizabeth became Mary.......I DID IT..... This is the mistake of the century.....how can I have stated that John Williams Furze and Mary Hosking were the parents of John W Furze...it should have read John Williams Furze and ELIZABETH Hosking. All my records have her as Elizabeth. Perhaps it was a sub- conscious desire for her to be named Mary to differentiate between all the Elizabeths I am encountering along with all the John Williams's. Are we sure that Eliza who married Richard Leggo was the mother of John W Furze....I have a copy of a formal letter to the Crown Agents for the Colonies from Henry Carne (?) JP of Penzance stating that John William (note no 's') Furze a child of the late J W Furze has "been suitably maintained and educated by Mrs Eliza Leggo.....during the twelve months ending 31st December 1904. John had left a fair bit of money £290 + when he died which presumably went to his widow. Why should she then be asking for money for maintenance from the Crown Agents for the Colonies.
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Leggo
Aug 2, 2009 12:24:56 GMT -5
Post by Cornish Terrier on Aug 2, 2009 12:24:56 GMT -5
I cannot answer the last question I am afraid. But the rest is easy enough! 1. Richard Leggo married (his second marriage) Eliza FURZE. 2. In the 1901 Census Richard and Eliza are husband and wife and young John Williams FURZE is named as his (i.e. Richard's) STEP-SON. This marriage occurred in 1898, the year following the death of John W snr in South Africa, so for the young John W to be 'step-son' of Richard LEGGO in 1901 then the logical answer is that Eliza FURZE was the widow of John W snr.
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Leggo
Aug 2, 2009 12:40:50 GMT -5
Post by HeatherC on Aug 2, 2009 12:40:50 GMT -5
Hello again You must have preferred Eliza as Mary TM lol! And what CT has posted was exactly what I was saying in my original post By 1904, Eliza was Mrs Eliza Leggo as she had married Richard Leggo in 1898........ also bear in mind the 1901 Census where it states John Williams Furze Step-son..... The step son referring to his relationship to the head of household (Richard Leggo) The John Williams Furze that died in 1907 in all probability is your John Williams Furze jnr., as it states age 14, making his y.o.b. about 1893. But as always, the only way to be 100% sure is by purchasing the relevant certificates, or viewing the actual parish register for the marriages. When in 1897 did John William Furze snr., die in S.A.? I ask, as I have checked the UK Incoming Passenger Lists 1878 -1960, and the nearest match is, Mrs E Furze who returned to the UK in June 1897 from Cape Town S.A. aboard the Dunvegan Castle, docking at London. This Mrs E Furze did have a child with her, but a Charles Furze aged 5, making him born c1892....... so I think perhaps not your Eliza Best regards HeatherC
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Leggo
Aug 2, 2009 14:54:15 GMT -5
Post by tonymitch on Aug 2, 2009 14:54:15 GMT -5
Thanks Heather and C.T. John Williams Furze died on 5th Feb 1897 and the death certificate is dated 25th February the same year. I'm not certain why you say that the Mrs E Furze with the child Charles is unlikely to be Eliza although I have no record of a 'Charles' in the family. Thanks again Tony M BTW.....Tried to fall on my sword, but even missed that one !!!
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Leggo
Aug 2, 2009 16:14:18 GMT -5
Post by white on Aug 2, 2009 16:14:18 GMT -5
Tony, Noted your imminent suicide threat. Could I please send you a list of questions for my ancestors before you go. Not sure yet as to how you will get the answers back to me. Seriously, he who does not make mistakes do not do anything. Roy ;D
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Leggo
Aug 2, 2009 18:29:42 GMT -5
Post by tonymitch on Aug 2, 2009 18:29:42 GMT -5
My Motto "If a job's worth doing, it's worth doing badly" (G.K. Chesterton)
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Leggo
Aug 3, 2009 1:59:42 GMT -5
Post by Cornish Terrier on Aug 3, 2009 1:59:42 GMT -5
Don't worry Tony I've made more than a few mistakes in my time too! If you take a look at the bright side - a mistake is often the best way to actually find what you are looking for. ;D A mistake will lead you down all sorts of paths you might never have considered and what you find down those paths can lead you to previously unknown connections and, ultimately, the answer you were originally looking for. You probably would not believe some of the things I have found through a simple mistake. CT
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