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Post by cornishmaid on Apr 26, 2007 8:54:57 GMT -5
Clarinda Trewhella Noall was born 27 July 1893, and baptised on 16 August 1893. Her parents were William Bryant Noall, b. 1856c. He was a mariner. Her mother was Mary Ann Peters b. 1853c. William Bryant Noall's parents were William Bryant Noall and Elizabeth Ninnes. Mary Ann's father was John Peters; I haven't investigated her mother as yet. I have traced the Noalls back to the 1650's, and no other Trewhellas there as far as I can see at the moment. So I am assuming the Trewhella name came from a maternal side. Clarinda was the youngest of 9 children that I've found so far. Her siblings had the following middle names (eldest child to youngest child): Peters, Ninnes, Peters, Bryant, Cogar, Peters. 2 of the children were not given middle names. So, where did the "Trewhella" come from? Ah.... forgot that Benjamin Trewhella married a Betsey Noall.. would there be some connection there? I am convinced all the Noall family are related, and have put quite a few of them together already.... I may have Betsey in my tree already, and just not got a spouse for her. Mm...
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Post by Cornish Terrier on Apr 26, 2007 12:10:12 GMT -5
A short reply for now - Betsey Noall (wife of Benjamin Trewhella) was born at Treloyan, St Ives, Cornwall January 11th, 1823. (This is from the Family Bible). At the time of marriage she was a 'dressmaker, of St Ives. Betsey's parents:- William Noall, miner m. December 27th, 1810 at St Ives Nancy KERNICK
I currently have not been able to determine who William's parents were but name association and information from Victorian Certificates has enabled me to determine the followiing about Nancy KERNICK:-
Bp. St Ives April 2nd 1782 (IGI) Father: Richard KERNICK Mother: Ann PENBERTHY
Nancy appears to be the eldest of 11 children of Richard and Ann and was baptised as 'Ann'.
William and Nancy NOALL had five children that I currently know of but I suspect there more.
Ann NOALL bp. August 4th 1811 St Ives Thomasine Kernick NOALL m. William Semmens MITCHELL William NOALL bn. St Ives c. 1817 (more ...) ** Betsey NOALL (m. Benjamin TREWHELLA) Richard Kernick NOALL bn. St Ives c. 1825 - d. St Ives July 15th, 1890 age 65 (Married but have not found details)
** William NOALL m. Frances (Fanny) COGAR April 27th 1843 at St Ives
William died at Simmon's Reef, Victoria April 10th 1889 and his death was registered by his brother-in-law Benjamin Trewhella. I know that son William also died in Victoria (1906) but I have not yet tracked down his wife or other children.
I will close this posting now as I think I may need to shut down and restart my computer because, for some reason, I cannot (all of a sudden) access some information I was just looking at on another site.
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Post by cornishmaid on Apr 26, 2007 17:25:05 GMT -5
Mm, curiouser and curiouser ;D Thank you for all that. I'm afraid I haven't had time to investigate further as yet as I have been out doing a very Cornish thing tonight So we have the name Cogar which matches up as well. I don't have the Noalls you mentioned connected to the rest of my Noalls at the moment... but it looks like there's a connection to my lot. Apparently all the Noalls in St Ives come from 2 brothers who fled from France to escape taxes or something.. though I haven't found anything to corroborate this as yet. Will see what else I can find out from this end as to the connection.
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Post by Cornish Terrier on Apr 26, 2007 19:31:52 GMT -5
That reference to France rings some bells but I just cannot place it. It is interesting that the names of Cogar (surname) and Clarinda Trewhella (christian names) occur in this family. I was thinking that there might have been a sibling connection and that these children were named for relatives who migrated. BUT - there does not seem to be a common connection to assist that theory. Will have to keep working on it, I guess!
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Post by Cornish Terrier on Apr 28, 2007 10:10:38 GMT -5
And here is yet another interesting point. I cannot find Willian Bryant Noall and wife Mary Ann in the 1901 Census. What I found is the following:- Hicks Ct, St Ives Elizabeth Noall, Head, s, age 24, Housekeeper John Noall, Brother, s, age 15, Fisherman Isabella Noall, Sister, s, age 12, School Clara Noall, Sister, s, age 7, School John Perkin Noall, Cousin, s, age 21, General Carter Sampson Cocking, Brother-in-law, m, age 30, Fisherman Mary Ann Cocking, Sister, m, age 26 Sampson Cocking, Nephew, s, age 1 (All above born at St Ives) I also cannot find a baptism for John Perkin Noall so cannot, just now, determine his parents. Question is - what happened to William and Mary Ann? Were they deceased by 1901? Did William die and Mary Ann remarry? (If she did it would appear it was not at St Ives) And, unfortunately, I don't have the relevant Burial records as yet. Next question is - where are the remainder of the children?? You may have something more here so - over to you!
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Post by cornishmaid on Apr 28, 2007 14:30:56 GMT -5
Hello again. ;D My head is hurting . Been here most of the day trying to sort out how this all fits together. Good job hubbie's cricket season has just started . Right, where William Bryant Noall was in 1901 is anyone's guess at the moment. He didn't die until 1939. Mary Ann his wife, however, died in March 1901 age 48. I assume that her husband either couldn't cope or was off doing his job as a mariner when the 1901 census took place, and his daughter Elizabeth was acting as Housekeeper. Their eldest daughter, Mary Ann Peters Noall, married Sampson James Cocking on 6 October 1895, hence the Cocking contingency in the household. Jane Peters Noall married Ernest Henry Bryant in Redruth district in 1901, hence her absence from the household. I don't know where Mary is offhand, but Margery died in 1891 As to John Perkins Noall... still working on that one. Ah, think that's sorted... William Bryant Noall's brother Philip had a son called John Noall, born 1879. That would fit with "cousin" and the age of John Perkins Noall. Maybe? ;D
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Post by calswimmer on Apr 28, 2007 14:34:58 GMT -5
I don't have anything on the Noall family, but I do have a note that Clarinda Thomas b. 1798 may have married Martin Trehella.
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Post by cornishmaid on Apr 28, 2007 14:49:39 GMT -5
Mm.. may be another clue... I think I need a long lie down in a dark room Just noticed that a Nanny Trewhella and family were living next door to Clarinda Trewhella Noall's family in 1891... ARGHHH!!!
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Post by calswimmer on Apr 28, 2007 15:27:25 GMT -5
If you have a chance, take a look at the online Cornwall census for 1841 in Halse Town. In the household of John Trewhella, age 40, is Jonathan Noall. then in a house just one away is Martin Trewhella, 50, with Clarinda wife and Clarinda daughter, and so on. If this family might connect with the Clarinda you're looking at it would be interesting to me to see how much we can determine about this group of people. I have some information on some of them and it would be great to get more!
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Post by Cornish Terrier on Apr 28, 2007 18:35:56 GMT -5
Hi again Calswimmer! Yep, that is the family I thought might form a connection to our Clarinda Trewhella Noall but, so far, to no avail. Daughter Clarinda married Samuel Barker at St Ives in 1841 and, I am not sure, may have ended up in the USA. Elizabeth I have found no more about. Martin was married and died in Nailsea, Somerset, but I have no record of any children. John Thomas went to the USA and married there and had five children that I am aware of. (I have found a little more information on them but it is yet to be updated.) Matthew died soon after birth. Ann died soon after birth. Matthew (the next) - he could be the interesting one! It is 'just possible' that he was the Matthew Trewhella who served in a Wisconsin Regiment during the Civil War! (Unable to prove so far except that I have no further record of him in England.) Ann (another) died unmarried at St Ives in 1923 after having three illegitimate children. Margaret Jane married a Robert Harry at the Penzance Registry Office in 1857 and died at Springfield, Missouri, in 1932 aged 97 years, 1 month and 7 days! ;D Johanna married a William Richards at Lelant in 1865 but no further information. Edward - no further information but I suspect he also ended up in the USA. (I think I have a record of him from one the Census records in the USA.) William married Mary Jane Martin at Penzance Register Office in 1863 and died in Wales in 1903 - four known children. Best I can do for now but can update further after I have sifted through the latest information I have gathered.
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Post by calswimmer on Apr 28, 2007 21:08:48 GMT -5
I'm looking at all this and it is very interesting. I see the St. Ives online registers say Mary Cogar Noall, daughter of Wm. Bryant Noall, married James Henry Welch Paynter in 1885. i also see that a Wiliam Bryant Noall, son of Philip, married Honor James Johns when he was 22 in 1900.
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Post by cornishmaid on Apr 29, 2007 8:58:31 GMT -5
Just a note in case we end up getting too embroiled in the Clarinda part instead of the Trewhella part .. A Clarinda Richards married Andrew Noall in 1832. Andrew is William Bryant Noall's 3rd cousin once removed. This may seem a bit of a far off connection for the name, but as this Clarinda was the youngest of 9 children, it may be that they had exhausted the other immediate family names. As well as calling one of their children "Mary Cogar", William Bryant Noall's sister was also called Mary Cogar Noall. I am assuming this name comes from William Cogar marrying a Mary Noall in 1840, but I haven't fitted these 2 into my tree as yet either. So many Noalls....
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Post by Cornish Terrier on Apr 29, 2007 11:39:36 GMT -5
Calswimmer and Cornishmaid - or Cornishmaid and Calswimmer You pair now have my head going round in more circles than it was last night! By The Way - did you know that Australia won the World Cup - Again - for the third year in a row! ;D (I don't go in for much sledging but, as Cricket was mentioned .....! ) Anyhow, I will try and look into a bit of this tonight but cannot promise anything for a day or so. I am trying to work on several things at once here so that I might get some paperwork cleared off my desk. I will say, however, that I was thinking of trying to look back through the Peters line to see if something might come to my attention. Both of you have offered some very good food for thought so let me see what I can come up with to add to the equation.
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Post by calswimmer on Apr 29, 2007 15:52:36 GMT -5
I did find that Wm. Bryant Noall, bachelor, married Mary Ann Peters, daugther of John, in 1873. However, I also found Mary Noall, age 16, in the 1871 census living with John and Jane Peters. Not sure why that would be. I also found in the burials in Trentham John Thomas Trewhella and family and also Benjamin Trehella and Betsy Noall and others.
By looking the Thomas family over carefully I can see they belong to my group--Clarinda who married Martin Trewhella is sister to my ancestor Richard, so pinning down that family in the census was very helpful to me. The mother of Richard and Clarinda, Ann, happens to be in the census at age 80 in 1841.
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Post by cornishmaid on Apr 29, 2007 16:11:48 GMT -5
William B Noall and Mary Ann Peters married in 1873. She was living with her parents, John and Jane Peters, in 1871 at The Wharf. Ah, in 1891, William and Mary's daughter, ie John and Jane Peters' granddaughter is lodging with them. I have no idea why either . No access to other census reports at the moment unfortunately, but will remedy that soon. I'm off on a tangent now with Betsy Noall and her parents... will carry on investigating, Have found a William Noall at Trelyon who was a farmer not a miner, with a daughter called Betsy born c.1822. Then a Fanny Noal at Trelyon who was a miner's wife, with a son called William (so I am assuming for the moment before pursuing this further that her husband was also called William), who has a daughter called Betsy, but she was born 1849c. . I also found a baptism on 2 February 1823 for a Betsy Noall, daughter of William and Ann. William was a farmer. You may have more information on this Cornish Terrier? Over to you with this one at the moment because I'm going round and round in circles. Glad you found some connections with your Thomas side Calswimmer Going to put all this paperwork to one side for the minute, and come back to it tomorrow with a clear head ;D
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