Post by Gwinowan on Dec 22, 2015 19:36:49 GMT -5
Right - sorted it! The coincidence was NOT the 1841 Newcastle census which proved utterly crucial, but the Sully couples. Like it or not there were two SMITH/HOGG couples in Sully at the same time and the SMITHs at least appear utterly unrelated. Solved entirely online without checking ANY original records
Ralph SMITH married 1782 Swinton and Simprin, Berwickshire to Betty Hogg and had: Christopher 1783, Katherine 1785, moved up the North Sea to Panbride near Carnoustie and had William 1788, Robert 1791 and James 1793.
William Smith born about 1789 Scotland marries 1841 Newcastle 'son of Ralph' to Mary Pipkin, who helps him run the pub with (likely) her illegitimate daughter. This is the marriage data supplemented by the 1851 census. There is only one William of the right age 'born Scotland' living in Newcastle 1841 and that is the above crucial census entry:
1841 Newcastle: William Smith 50 agent b Scotland; Thomas Quick 37 mariner, Elizabeth 26, John 5, Catharine 10mo (all stated 'b Northumberland'). There are no Quick births in the county, so this 'fact' may be discounted. We know Catharine was Catherine Smith Quick with the middle name of Smith which we now suspect is not a coincidence!
Katherine Smith born 1785 Scotland had married in Clifton, Gloucestershire (suburb of Bristol) 1812 to William Hogg (1788-1835), perhaps a cousin. They have:
* Elizabeth Hogg 1813 Sully marries 1832 Cardiff St John (where her mother buried) to Thomas Quick of St Ives, see 1841 census - finding this marriage on a whim led me here
* William Alexander Hogg, likely named for a putative grandfather Hogg
* Ralph Howden Hogg, named for his grandfather. Marries Kensington to Dorothy Clarke and has issue in Australia.
William Hogg described as seedsman, grocer, remarries to Caroline Vaughan (d 1845 leaves will) and has several children including:
* George James Hogg, listed on mother's memorial in Llandaff Cathedral
* Florance Hogg, apprenticed to mariner
---
My relative William Smith (1782-1814) of Sully appears to be NO relative of Catherine despite this being his mother's name, living in Sully at the same time as her and having married a HOGG (Jennet/ Janet). But as his father had died back in 1781, really he was unlikely to have siblings. William's father was William Smith of Mevagissey whose will is proved 1781/2 with witnesses from the town of Neath listed and a matching marriage in about 1779 to Catherine REES, my 6xgreat-aunt. Who would have thought the 1841 Census for Newcastle would help me solve a puzzle about my Welsh 6xgreat-aunt, and that the Penwith-orientated Proboards site would help me link it all together?
Case closed.
Ralph SMITH married 1782 Swinton and Simprin, Berwickshire to Betty Hogg and had: Christopher 1783, Katherine 1785, moved up the North Sea to Panbride near Carnoustie and had William 1788, Robert 1791 and James 1793.
William Smith born about 1789 Scotland marries 1841 Newcastle 'son of Ralph' to Mary Pipkin, who helps him run the pub with (likely) her illegitimate daughter. This is the marriage data supplemented by the 1851 census. There is only one William of the right age 'born Scotland' living in Newcastle 1841 and that is the above crucial census entry:
1841 Newcastle: William Smith 50 agent b Scotland; Thomas Quick 37 mariner, Elizabeth 26, John 5, Catharine 10mo (all stated 'b Northumberland'). There are no Quick births in the county, so this 'fact' may be discounted. We know Catharine was Catherine Smith Quick with the middle name of Smith which we now suspect is not a coincidence!
Katherine Smith born 1785 Scotland had married in Clifton, Gloucestershire (suburb of Bristol) 1812 to William Hogg (1788-1835), perhaps a cousin. They have:
* Elizabeth Hogg 1813 Sully marries 1832 Cardiff St John (where her mother buried) to Thomas Quick of St Ives, see 1841 census - finding this marriage on a whim led me here
* William Alexander Hogg, likely named for a putative grandfather Hogg
* Ralph Howden Hogg, named for his grandfather. Marries Kensington to Dorothy Clarke and has issue in Australia.
William Hogg described as seedsman, grocer, remarries to Caroline Vaughan (d 1845 leaves will) and has several children including:
* George James Hogg, listed on mother's memorial in Llandaff Cathedral
* Florance Hogg, apprenticed to mariner
---
My relative William Smith (1782-1814) of Sully appears to be NO relative of Catherine despite this being his mother's name, living in Sully at the same time as her and having married a HOGG (Jennet/ Janet). But as his father had died back in 1781, really he was unlikely to have siblings. William's father was William Smith of Mevagissey whose will is proved 1781/2 with witnesses from the town of Neath listed and a matching marriage in about 1779 to Catherine REES, my 6xgreat-aunt. Who would have thought the 1841 Census for Newcastle would help me solve a puzzle about my Welsh 6xgreat-aunt, and that the Penwith-orientated Proboards site would help me link it all together?
Case closed.