James Quick and Mary

[Deleted]

CT

I know that you are busy on the American emigrants but I would like to bring your attention, and of course the attention to anybody who would like to solve a mystery, to a Quick family in St Ives - James Quick and his wife Mary. I believe that we have discussed this before and that Mary maybe Mary Humphries and realted to the marriage which occurred at Falmouth, both bride and groom from St Ives, married in 1774.

James and Mary had five children baptised that I am aware of. Ann (1779), Francis (1780), Ann (1783), James (1785) and Matthew (1796) - big gap from 4th to 5th leaving a number of options open. Assuming a marriage of about 1778 you could thereby assume births for the parents in the vicinity of 1750 - 1760. Maybe earlier if you accept older parents.

OK, so I am going to suggest, for the want of an argument, that this James is in some way attached to the family of Francis Quick and Ann Michell who were married in St Ives in 1731. The father of Francis was Matthew and this name also appears in the children names above. Francis and Ann had three children that I am aware of: Ann (1731), Sarah (1734) and Francis (1736).

Of the three I only know of the marriage of Sarah to Andrew Berriman in St Ives in 1757. Their children were baptised in both St Ives and Towednack as Andrew was from Towednack: Andrew (1764 & 1765), Ann (1761), Jane (1759), Margaret (1775), Sarah (1758) and most importantly: Francis (1768) and James (1771). At first glance I cannot see the name James coming from the Berriman family so I am proposing that it is from the Quick family.

I would like to suggest that somewhere the marriage of Francis (1736) has been missed, and such marriage brought James onto the scene. Or that there was a fourth sibling, a brother of Francis, maybe named James (CT I think that this is the scenario that you proposed some time ago)?

I do have in my possession a will for a James Quick. He must have died intestate and admon was granted to the widow Mary on the 4/5/1796 - there is a burial at St Ives for a James dated 18/11/1795 - which is just before the baptism of Matthew (3/4/1796). This could have been the James mentioned above.

I would appreciate some other thoughts.

Lannanta

[Cornish Terrier]

Lannanta - is this document amongst those you have sent me?

On first read of your post I agree that the most likely link appears to be through the name of Francis.
Throw in the name Matthew and the possibility is certainly not weakened.

But before exploring the possibility further I think that you have inadvertantly solved another problem!

Hmmm - then maybe not!

Francis the elder was baptised 13th November 1687.

And here is another problem.

Ann d/o Francis and Ann was baptised at St Ives 27th December 1731

Sarah d/o Francis and Ann was baptised at St Ives 15th April 1734 - BUT her father's name is recorded as ANDREW with wife Ann.

Francis s/o Francis and Ann was baptised at St Ives 28th December 1736 according to IGI - yet this baptism does not seem to appear in the CFHs Baptism Transcript!

Assuming that IGI is correct then I wish to look at the details for the two men named Francis QUICK:-

Francis bp. 13th November 1687
Francis bp. 28th December 1736

Now consider the two burials of interest (as mentioned recently):-

Francis QUICK buried 1st October 1758
Francis QUICK buried 29th June 1771 - 'of Carn Staba'

And now I bring you to what appears to be a marriage not yet considered by you:-

William HOCKING married Ann QUICK 2nd November 1758 at St Ives - WITNESS - FRANCIS QUICK

This therefore is the eldest daughter of Francis and Ann QUICK.

The question is - was the witness Ann's father or her brother?

One of the two was buried 1st October 1758 - 32 days before the marriage!

So did the elder Francis die at age 71 or did he live on until he live on until 1771 when he was 84?

Returning to the original question.

Although possible I think part of the time-frame you suggest is unrealistice.

Even if James and Mary married in 1778 we would need for James to be born (historically) no later than about 1760.
We would then need to have him as very likely the eldest child of the younger Francis and have him married by about 1759 at the age of 22.
Again historically we would then rely on the wife of Francis probably having a father named James.

This scenario also raised the fact that 1. we have no such marriage for Francis, 2. we have no baptism for a James son of Francis, 3. there is no evidence of any children anywhere around this time with a father named Francis.

That poses a range of imponderables.

You are quite correct in saying that the name James does not appear to come from the BERRIMAN family and in fact although there were a few of that name it is not what I would call a very common name in that family.

On the other hand there appears to be no James in the immediate family of Francis QUICK with the closest being his uncle of whom we only have mention in an earlier Will. (Francis Quick 1689)

If we look at the MAJOR side of the family then it appears there may have been at least a couple named James around Gwennap but other than that I can see no sign there of why Francis might use the name.

The only other place the name may have come from would be from the family of Ann MICHELL but I have not yet been able to determine who she was and therefore have no evidence of the name in her family.

Stalemate!

This is a case where we may have to forget the origins of the name James.

So let's move on to the mysterious James and Mary QUICK.

We know there is a marriage at Falmouth in 1774 for two St Ives people - James QUICK and Mary HUMPHRIES.

Although there is a gap of five years before their first known child we find that the name ANN is used twice and is the only female name used.

With the wife of James QUICK being Mary this suggests to me the possibility that ANN was the name of his mother.

A child is named James but is the fourth known child and second known son.

The first son that we know of was named FRANCIS.

In my opinion there is enough evidence in this family group to suggest that James might well be the son of Francis and Ann QUICK.

UNLESS - he might have been an illegitimate child of Ann d/o Francis and Ann QUICK.

Ann married in 1758 when she was almost 27 so there is plenty of scope for her to have had earlier liaisons.

But if she did have a child then it was either not baptised or was baptised under another name.

I am prepared to attach James as a son of Francis and Ann QUICK for the time being.

CT

[Deleted]

CT

And here is another problem.

Ann d/o Francis and Ann was baptised at St Ives 27th December 1731

Sarah d/o Francis and Ann was baptised at St Ives 15th April 1734 - BUT her father's name is recorded as ANDREW with wife Ann.

Francis s/o Francis and Ann was baptised at St Ives 28th December 1736 according to IGI - yet this baptism does not seem to appear in the CFHs Baptism Transcript!

I was not aware of this issue as I took the three baptisms from the IGI when I first started collecting my QUICK data and the three are listed as children of Francis and Ann in the IGI so I did not change anything when I received the St Ives baptisms. At this stage I think I will leave well enough alone until I look at the originals one day. Saying that I did notice on Genuki that there is some issue with St Ives and St Ive but even though I did not understand what they were saying I do not think that it affects the data collected.

I also looked at the marriage of Ann to William Hocking but I did not have access to the name of the witness - Francis Quick. And at the same time last night I noted the two deaths of Francis guessing father and son but with no information to say which was which. I did note two children for William and Ann Hockin at St Ives - Ann and Elizabeth.

I most certainly agree with you re a missing marriage for Francis - I was really just trying to put any possibility out there - tongue in cheek. I believe that there is a missing baptism for James - son of Francis and Ann.

I do wonder why James ended up in Falmouth accepting the usual movements of shipwrights, mariners etc but on this occasion Mary had traveled as well.

I intend to make the link as well and move on until some other piece of information places the link in some doubt.

With respect to the admon etc for James I will forward you a copy.

Lannanta

[Cornish Terrier]

Thanks Lannanta - I have already made the update and linked James to Francis and Ann.

It would be nice to find just one more item to tell us just which Francis died first.

As for the St Ives and St Ive problem it is worth taking a look at IGI. (Not often I say that!)

There are three Batch Numbers for St Ives being P014781, C023291 and C023292. (Apart from Non-comformist)

P014781 - in this batch you will find that all dates occurring during the January-March period of the Julian Calendar have already had the year component updated to reflect the Gregorian Calendar.

This is a practice that I have always found a blasphemy!

C023291 and C023292 are listed as being for St Ive and this is certainly an anomaly.

C023291 is for the period 1714-1805
C023292 is for the period 1675-1713

You will find many events in these that are duplicated in P014781 and helps prove that the material is most certainly for St Ives and not St Ive.

In fact there seems very little available for St Ive anywhere although I think there is some now appearing on the OPC site.

As an example - input a search for IGI using the name e.g. Francis Quick.

Do not add a Batch Number but merely search on the name without dates or any other information than Cornwall.

You will find two references for Francis Quick dated 28th December 1736.

One of these has only a Film Number and is labelled St Ives.
The other has the Batch Number C923291 and is labelled St Ive.

Both are the exact same event with the same parents.

As another example compare the following two items:-


IGI Individual Record FamilySearch™ International Genealogical Index v5.0
British Isles
Search Results | Download | Print

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------


THOMAS QUICK Pedigree
Male


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Event(s):
Birth:
Christening: 03 JAN 1743 Saint Ive, Cornwall, England

Death:
Burial:


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Parents:
Father: BENEDICT QUICK Family
Mother: MARY


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Messages:
Extracted birth or christening record for the locality listed in the record. The source records are usually arranged chronologically by the birth or christening date.


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Source Information:
Batch No.: Dates: Source Call No.: Type: Printout Call No.: Type:

C023291 1714 - 1805 0090250 Film 0933103 Film


Sheet: 00

IGI Individual Record FamilySearch™ International Genealogical Index v5.0
British Isles
Search Results | Download | Print

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------


THOMAS QUICK Pedigree
Male


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Event(s):
Birth:
Christening: 03 JAN 1744 Saint Ives, Cornwall, England

Death:
Burial:


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Parents:
Father: BENEDICTT QUICK Family
Mother: MARY


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Messages:
Extracted birth or christening record for locality listed in the record. The source records are usually arranged chronologically by the birth or christening date.


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Source Information:
Batch No.: Dates: Source Call No.: Type: Printout Call No.: Type:

P014781 1651 - 1812 0236533, 0236534 Film 1145604 Film


Sheet: 00

NOTE that each has a different Batch Number, each has a different year for the event yet each is for the exact same person!

I rest my case! ;D