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Post by Deleted on Feb 27, 2009 21:57:53 GMT -5
Hopefully there might be some assistance available from my Aussie cousins please? I was noting the marriage of Honour Paynter QUICK in 1891 in St Ives to James Joseph Bidgood and I then tried to locate her in the 1871 census - at her marriage it stated that she was 22 years of age and the daughter of Richard a miner. The marriage of Richard Quick and Honor Paynter was in 1865 in the district of Penzance. She did not appear there but she did appear in the 1881 census which showed that her sister Elizabeth was born in Australia in 1867 and Honor was born there in 1869 - Ballarat I believe. I have also discovered that a daughter Lystra was born there in 1871. Also a son Richard Paynter Quick died there in 1867. I would like to know if anybody has access to the shipping records that would show this family moving to and from Australia please? Also, there are couple of options for which Richard this is, so I would value some discussion on that also. I am leaning towards Richard, the son of Billy Noall Quick and Elizabeth Hosking as I know that family went to Australia in 1857  Lannanta |
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Post by gandolf on Feb 28, 2009 8:40:41 GMT -5
Lannanta, My initial thought on checking what I had on Richard, son of Billy Noal Quick, was that you were wrong, but I am now beginning to think you may be right.  In my data I have Billy Noal Quick together with his whole family arriving in Victoria in December 1857 aboard the "Ebba Brahe". This included son Richard, so my initial thought was that as he had emigrated to Australia it is rather unlikely that he would be marrying in Cornwall. NOTE: I currently have no record of Richard in Victoria beyond his arrival with his parents and siblings. He does not seem to die in Victoria. Richard and Honor (nee Paynter) Quick seem to be the couple that arrive in Victoria in August 1865 on board the "London". Given they married in Penzance District in the first quarter of 1865, they must have boarded ship within days (or perhaps weeks) of the the marriage. Richard & Honor had the following children in Victoria: SURNAME 1stNAME PLACE YEAR REG.#
QUICK Richard BALLARAT 1866 12896
QUICK Elizabeth BALLARAT 1867 19944
QUICK Honor BALLARAT 1869 13162
QUICK Lystra BUNGAREE 1871 1121
Son Richard Paynter Quick died age 9 months at Ballarat in 1867 (Reg# 4578) I don't have access to shipping records outward from Victoria or inwards to Britain, so can't help with Richard & Honor's return to England. A check of the cenus records for Richard Quick (and Honor) after their return to England suggests Richard was born around 1837 (he is recorded as 44 in 1881 and 55 in 1891). Richard Quick, son of Billy Noal Quick was born 1838, so allowing normal variation in recorded ages, they could be the same person. The eldest daughter of Richard & Honor is called Elizabeth - assuming traditional naming practices, this suggests that Richard's mother was called Elizabeth. Billy Noal Quick'swife was Elizabeth (nee Hosking) Quick. Given a lack of evidence for Richard Quick (son of Billy Noal Quick) in Australia after his arrival in 1857, it is plausible that he returned to England to find a wife. While unusual, it was not unheard of. With all his family in Australia, he could then have returned there and had the family listed above. His first trip back to Cornwall to obtain his wife would explain the lack of a marriage for him in Victoria. And Richards final return to Cornwall a decade later would explain the lack of a death for him in Australia. So like Lananta, I am now beginning to think that the husband of Honor Paynter is the the same person as the son of Billy Noal Quick. |
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Post by Deleted on Feb 28, 2009 15:56:49 GMT -5
CT
In the collection of letters between John Glasson of Bookanon and his parents in Breage (collectively called the Glasson Saga), John states in 1829 prior to departure - had I the capital I should not go out alone, but now though I know where to get a good wife. The topic of a wife must have been a hot topic of discussion because later in the same year John writes - my dear father's advice respecting my choosing a wife in New South Wales is very good, but is superfluous. I shall not take a wife in that colony. If ever I marry (I hope I shall) my partner will be from home, nay I have fixed, unalterably fixed, my choice. Now I suppose you are anxious to know who it may be, and I will tell you, I never before told anyone except the lady concerned, but shall be proud to confess my attachment anywhere. It is Elizabeth Busustow, daughter of Busustows of Borkin, and I have the happiness to know from herself that the passion is mutual. Unfortunately she could not wait and married somebody else much to John's disgust - Miss Busustow is served just as she deserves; she will never (and never ought to be) happy in a husband after the trick she served me. Had she remained true I should have been enabled to return and marry her next year. I care not for her. I desired her to destroy my letters and an elegant little book I gave her, and let me know that she had done so. Please do enquire if she has fulfilled my request. I have burnt every vestige of hers in my possession - ouch! Anyway, he later married Anne Evans without undertaking the trip back to Breage.
Charles Allen Quick was another who made several trips to Victoria as far as I can tell. I think he left in 1852 aboard the "Bombay" and probably married there soon on arrival, Betsey Cogar, (or he had his wife hidden on the ship). They had at least two children, Betsey Cogar who died, and Israel, there before he returned home and is found with Israel at his brother Matthews place in the 1871 census. He married his second wife in Plymouth in 1871 and then together with his new wife Mary Cothey, his son Israel and his brother Matthew and his wife Fanny, they all set off again for Victoria later in 1871. Young Israel must have been quite the globetrotter.
Lannanta
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Post by Cornish Terrier on Feb 28, 2009 16:34:13 GMT -5
Somehow I missed this one last nigh!  Right - Richard was certainly the son of Billy Noall QUICK and wasbaptised at St Ives 3rd March 1839. Richard married Honor PAYNTER at Halsetown 16th March 1865. As Gandolf has stated there were four children born in Victoria, Australia. Richard 1866-1867 Elizabeth 1867 Honor Paynter 1869 Lystra 1871 All born at or near Ballarat. But then!  - there was another son! Richard Paynter QUICK s/o Richard and Honor was born at St Ives 17th March 1876 and baptised St ives Methodist New Connexion 29th January 1877. His death is recorded in the Barnoon M.I.'s as 6th November 1944 at he age of 68. Richard Paynter QUICK married Annie OLIVER in the Penzance R.D. in the June Qtr of 1908. Annie is recorded on the M.I. with Richard - died 11th July 1933 age 53. In 1901 Richard is boarding at Bolingey, Perranzabuloe and is recorded as a 'stone mason'. Father Richard and sister Elizabeth (stated birthplace Victoria) are living in St Ives but there is no indication that Richard is widowed. It starts getting messy here. I think I have found Honor in the 1901 Census but, if it IS her, she is recorded as 'single'. But the head of household is a widowed Mary BOTTRELL with Honor being recorded as 'cousin'. Mary is age 43 and has children Richard P and Francis R BOTTRELL with her. Thomas F WILLIAMS age 60 is another 'cousin' and then there are two boarders. The final member of the household is 73 year old 'aunt' Elizabeth RICHARDS. Will see what I can do with this lot to find out if it is really the Honor QUICK we seek. CT |
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Post by gandolf on Feb 28, 2009 16:50:48 GMT -5
CT,
Was just checking something in Barnoon records and found the following which looks like it is the Mary Bottrell you mentioned:
If so, it suggests that Mary may have been widowed twice - once as a Quick and once as a Bottrell?
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Post by Cornish Terrier on Feb 28, 2009 16:51:26 GMT -5
Looking like I may have the right family in 1901.
In the 1851 Census Honor is age 5 and living with parents Richard and Elizabeth PAYNTER.
This 'may' be Richard who married Elizabeth NINNES at St Ives in 1827 but I still have to check that.
Also with this family in 1851 is an Elizabeth RICHARDS, visitor, age 25.
This is a 'near equivalent' match to the Elizabeth RICHARDS in 1901.
In 1891 at Fish Street, St Ives is a James and Mary BOTTRELL (both age 33).
And also in this household is mother-in-law Mary Ann J RICHARDS.
Will have to pursue this further a little later.
Have to go do an hour on the gate for the Fire Brigade Championships.
Until later,
CT
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Post by gandolf on Feb 28, 2009 17:49:26 GMT -5
Charles Allen Quick was another who made several trips to Victoria as far as I can tell. I think he left in 1852 aboard the "Bombay" and probably married there soon on arrival, Betsey Cogar, (or he had his wife hidden on the ship). They had at least two children, Betsey Cogar who died, and Israel, there before he returned home and is found with Israel at his brother Matthews place in the 1871 census. He married his second wife in Plymouth in 1871 and then together with his new wife Mary Cothey, his son Israel and his brother Matthew and his wife Fanny, they all set off again for Victoria later in 1871. Young Israel must have been quite the globetrotter. Charles Allen Quick married Betsey Cogar Paynter in Penzance District Sep quarter 1852. Betsey's surname indexed as Cogar on the marriage record, but almost all the children born in Victoria give her name as Betsey Cogar Paynter. I currently have five children for them: Mary Paynter Quick born Penzance District 1853 Charles Allen Quick born Melbourne 1854 James Quick born Maryborough 1856 Betsey Cogar Quick born 1858 Bet Bet, died 1859 Bet Bet. Israel Quick born 1860 Bet Bet. I have no evidence to suggest that son Charles Allen Quick ever left Victoria - he married his first wife Melinda Hokin in 1875 and had four children to her before she died in 1904. He married a second time in 1905 to a widow - Isabella Jane Vears (nee Harper). I have no information on son James Quick. Israel Quick married 1885 in Victoria to Elizabeth Andrew and had four children. The firstborn daughter Mary Paynter Quick is now the problem. I had placed her with this family based on the name, and believed that the family arrived in Victoria around 1854. However, have just checked the arrival of a Charles & Betsey Quick on the Bombay in December 1852. As you say Lannanta, this does indeed look like it is Charles Allen Quick and his wife Betsey Cogar (Paynter) Quick. On that basis, it would seem that Mary Paynter Quick does not belong to this family as I thought.   I missed the second arrival of the elder Charles Allen Quick back in Victoria - perhaps because I hadn't found the second marriage at Plymouth. And as yet I haven't found a death for him in Victoria so perhaps Charles Snr returned to England once more However there is some mystery here. Charles Allen Quick is listed as married in the 1871 census, yet the second marriage to Mary Cothey was not until the September quarter. Assuming that the census record is correct, then Charles needs to have Betsey die between April and June (end August?) 1871. I can't find a record of this in England, and if she died in Victoria it would have to be after Charles return to England and he would have to have got a letter advising him of this in that couple of month window. So most likely the census entry is incorrect, and Charles was actually a widower. However this is still a problem, as I can't find any record of Betsey's death in Victoria or England between 1860 and 1871. Perhaps she returned to England with Charles and died on the voyage |
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Post by Deleted on Feb 28, 2009 18:15:12 GMT -5
Gandolf
I believe that Mary Paynter Quick, b 1854, was the daughter of Alfred Quick and Hannah Berriman.
Lannanta
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Post by Deleted on Feb 28, 2009 21:08:21 GMT -5
Gandolf
Well here goes. I think that you are right. Charlles Allen did marry Betsey Cogar Paynter. She was the daughter of Nathaniel Thomas Paynter and Betsey Cogar who were married at St Ives in 1830.
Interestingly, at the 1851 census, Nathaniel Thomas Paynter has a new wife Jane. Now Jane is the sister of Charles Allen, both being children of Israel Quick and Jane Allen.
Lannanta
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Post by Cornish Terrier on Mar 1, 2009 2:36:33 GMT -5
Just a short note before I get back in and check the lines I think I have to follow here. Gandolf - I am not absolutely certain yet but I think you may have yet another Mary BOTTRELL of about the same age. The one you mention with son Richard Quick BOTTRELL married Edwin BOTTRELL at St Ives in 1878. She was the daughter of Samuel TREVORROW. The Mary BOTTRELL I am currently interested in has a son who is clearly identifiable in the 1901 Census as Richard P BOTTRELL. Not only that but Richard Quick BOTTRELL was born and baptised in 1897 whilst the Richard I have been looking at was aged 11 in 1901 and thus born about 1889/90. Further investigation required. CT |
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Post by Cornish Terrier on Mar 1, 2009 4:00:42 GMT -5
All though yet to find a transcript of this event I can offer the following:- FreeBMD Penzance R.D. 1852 September Qtr Vol 5c Page 497 Charles Allen QUICK Betsy COGAR An interesting thing though - at the moment I am unable to find death records for Charles or Betsy. Will take another look shortly but must get back to the problem of Honor Paynter QUICK while I 'have my teeth' into it.  CT |
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Post by Cornish Terrier on Mar 4, 2009 3:45:34 GMT -5
Still no luck finding death records for Charles or Betsy. But for your information:- Mary Paynter QUICK born St Ives 18th July 1853 baptised St Ives Primitive Methodist Circuit 11th August 1853 d/o Alfred and Hannah (nee BRRIMAN) QUICK CT |
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Post by gandolf on Mar 4, 2009 5:49:19 GMT -5
Interestingly, at the 1851 census, Nathaniel Thomas Paynter has a new wife Jane. Now Jane is the sister of Charles Allen, both being children of Israel Quick and Jane Allen. Interestingly, Jane (nee Quick) Paynter is one of those people who managed to get counted twice in the 1881 census. However, more intriguingly, although her age is accurate enough when recorded with her husband as 61, when recorded with daughter Jane (nee Paynter) Wallis's family, her age is given as 67. Perhaps this is a transcription error of a poorly written numeral, but at least two different sources (FreeCensus & Ancestry) have the same age (67), so both have apparently read the number the same way. Equally intriguing is how the census taker made the error, since both housholds are in the same street and presumably the same census taker did both and on the same day You would think that the error might have been noticed? |
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Post by gandolf on Mar 4, 2009 7:18:09 GMT -5
Charles Allen Quick was indeed a globetrotter. Lannanta, not sure why you needed the Aussies to assist you with this one, since it turns out it was in your own backyard. Have just found out why we were unable to bury Charles or his second wife in Cornwall or Victoria - it's because they ended up in New Zealand.  Mind you he doesn't make things easy. On his return to Victoria in 1871 (with brother Matthew and his wife Fanny) Charles gave his age as 35 when in fact he would have been about 41. Presumably this was so he could qualify for an assisted passage out since the cutoff for that was 40 at the time. What is more confusing is his new bride Mary Richards (Cothey) Quick is also recorded as being aged 35. From a check of census records, there is apparently only one Mary Cothey in the whole of England at the time of the 1871 census. She was a 16 year old still living at home with her parents in St. Ives. Six months later she is married at Plymouth to Charles Allen Quick and on board a boat out to Victoria! However the stay in Victoria was apparently a maximum of four years, since by 1875 Charles and Mary are in New Zealand - I think at Nelson, but am not completely sure of this. Their (presumably firstborn) daughter Wilmot Jane is born 1875, Catherine Elizabeth 1877 and William Paul 1878. William died aged 11 days. Wilmot later married 1896 to James George Preston and had 15 children to him (two born as Quick prior to the marriage). Details of the descendants are on a family database on Rootsweb: wc.rootsweb.ancestry.com/cgi-bin/igm.cgi?op=GET&db=juliep123456&id=I01017Catherine married 1898 to William Henry Rogers and had at least five children to him. Ida Elizabeth Rogers b. 1899 Ada Rogers b. 1900 Elizabeth Cothey Rogers b. 1901 Ruby Cothey Rogers b. 1903 William Owen Rogers b. 1907 Charles Allen Quick died 1879 in New Zealand (at Nelson?). Again his age is out, as he was "45" when he died. His widow Mary remarried in 1880 to Frank Ernest Roebuck and had another nine children to him: Mary Richards (formerly Quick, nee Cothey) Roebuck died 1923 in New Zealand. She was aged 69, which is consistent with her recorded aged in the 1871 census of 16 - both place her birth around 1854 or 1855. However, I still don't know at this stage what happened to Matthew and Fanny Quick after their arrival in Victoria with Charles Allen Quick in 1871. They did not die in Victoria, and don't seem to have gone to New Zealand either. |
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Post by Sarch on Apr 7, 2009 9:18:31 GMT -5
Hi I have a Matthew and Fanny Harry Quick (nee Gyles) as buried in Barnoon Cemetery, St Ives, Cornwall Ref Quick Fanny Harry wife of Matthew Quick 12/2/1908 78 also Matthew 11/5/1920 84 Re Jane Quick wife of Nathaniel Thomas Paynter - she was recorded twice in the 1881 census probably because of the confusion of the birth of her grand daughter Jane Quick Wallis who was 3 days old at the time of the census - she was probably going between the two households trying to hold things together - also because she is recorded with husband as Jane Paynter and in the James Wallis household as Jane Q Paynter so quite possible that the enumerator missed it . The 1881 St Ives enumerator also got confused with all the Janes at the James Wallis household - as Jane the mother-in-law was Jane Paynter (not Jane Q Paynter) - her daughter was Jane Quick Wallis (not Jane Q P Wallis) and grand daughter was Jane Quick Wallis (not Jane Q P Wallis). New baby in the house and 4 other children running around - it was probably chaos Jane Quick married to Nathaniel Thomas Paynter is my great grandmother S |
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- there was another son! 
