Which Thomas Noall m. Elizabeth Quick?

[cornishmaid]

I am really really sorry to bring up the Quick name again , but it's really the identity of her husband Thomas Noall I am looking for

This problem could throw my whole Noall database into disarray, and I have been hoping the problem would go away , but now the time has come to tackle it, especially after a little prompt a while ago by CT

Thomas Noall married Elizabeth Quick, Widow, in St Ives, by licence on 1 October 1780.

The parentage of Elizabeth was discussed in another thread on the Quick board, which concluded I believe that she was the daughter of Andrew Quick and Honour.

There is then another marriage:
Thomas Noall & Elizabeth Bevan, in St Ives, on 18 September 1791. (Elizabeth Bevans I believe was baptised in St Ives on 23 November 1766 to John Bevans and Jane Harvey, who married in St Ives on 4 September 1757.)

I am trying to ascertain the parentage of both Thomas Noalls, but especially the first as he is a direct descendent.

I have listed below all the baptisms to Thomas Noall & Elizabeth in St Ives which I can find.

Thomas, 25 February 1781
Elisabeth, 7 July 1782
Mary, 12 April 1784
Alexander, 26 December 1785
William, 27 May 1787
James, 31 January 1790 (died 1870)
William, 26 February 1792
Christian, 25 May 1795

Thomas, 28 October 1792
William, 26 December 1793
John Bevans, 22 November 1795
Elisabeth, 14 January 1798
Philip, 14 February 1800

I believe the first set of baptisms belong to Thomas Noall and Elizabeth Quick, and the second to Thomas Noall and Elizabeth Bevans. However, I haven't confirmed this.

There are a few Thomas Noalls baptised in St Ives who might be likely candidates:
29 April 1733 Father: John, Widower
6 June 1737 Parents: Stephen & Jane
2 April 1739 Father: Alexander
26 March 1744 Parents: Philip & Ann
26 December 1751 Parents: Richard & Mary (nee Harry) - buried 27 February 1833, age 82.

Alexander and Mary had 2 other children, both called Mary. (I believe these are Alexander Noall and Mary Daniell who married in Lelant on 10 November 1737. Mary Daniell's parents were I believe William and Mary.)

Philip and Anne had other children called Peter, Ann, Catherine, Philip, Jane and Margaret.

Richard & Mary had Richard, Mary, Prudence, John and Elizabeth.

Has anyone any ideas which, if any, of these might be the correct Thomas Noall's parents Any help much appreciated

[cornishmaid]

Just a quick addition in case it helps...

Thomas Noall and Elizabeth Quick had a son called James. He married Eleanor Leddra in 1812 in St Ives. They called their children by the following names:

James (after the father)
Grace Leddra (this seems to run through the Leddra side)
William
Thomas (after James' father)
George Leddra (after Eleanor's father)
Richard (after Eleanor's grandfather)
Charles
Ellen Leddra (after the mother)
Honor (could either be after James' grandmother on the Quick side, or her Eleanor's great grandmother on the Leddra side?)

I'm not sure if this is any help at all, but thought I'd mention it

[Cornish Terrier]

Your two groups of children are exactly as I have them worked out.

My reading of the situation is that the Thomas who married Elizabeth QUICK was the son of Richard and Mary and thus the man buried at St Ives in 1833.

It seems strange that Thomas never named a son Richard - but there is an explanation.

Elizabeh QUICK was a widow when Thomas married her having been previously married to Paul QUICK.

Paul and Elizabeth had only two children, both sons, and the second was RICHARD baptised at St Ives 22nd September 1776.

Richard married Elizabeth DANIELL at St Ives 16th August 1796 and he was buried at St Ives 13th January 1824.

So the lack of a son named Richard is not really such an issue.

The second Thomas NOALL is the greater problem at the moment.

I cannot find any of his family in the 1841 Census yet but there is a burial for an Elizabeth NOALL at St Ives 21st August 1827 age 29 that might be his daughter who was baptised in 1798.

Until more information is found in the way of Census or other records for Thomas I can only guess who he might be.

There were two Thomas NOALLs baptised in 1767 and it is possible he was one of these.

bp. 3rd May 1767 s/o Philip and Sibella
bp. 25th January 1767 s/o Thomas and Ann

I would be leaning towards the former at the moment purely because Thomas named a son Philip.

And there is possibly another child to Thomas and Elizabeth.

I found a baptism in IGI the other night for an Andrew s/o Thomas and Elizabeth 3rd August 1802 at St Ives.

Best I can offer for the moment but will keep searching for further information.

CT

[cornishmaid]

I "think" I have found further corroboration that Thomas Noall, husband of Elizabeth Quick was the son of Richard Noall and Mary Harry..

Thomas and Elizabeth had a son called Alexander, baptised 26 December 1785. I believe I have found him in the census returns as being a Farmer at Hellesveor/Hellesvene (at the top end of St Ives).

He married Sarah Noall in St Ives on 25 June 1810, and they had the following children baptised in St Ives (in date order):
Sarah
Alexander
Richard
Jane
Mary
Christian Emma
Prudence
William
John

There are no children called Thomas or Elizabeth , so no naming pattern there. However, there are names like Richard, Mary, Christian, Prudence, William and John which all run in the family. Remember that Richard Noall and Mary Harry called their children Richard, Mary, Prudence, John and Elizabeth? I believe that Richard Noall's parents were John Noall and Prudence... wait for it.. Quick .

Will put all this together properly tomorrow with a clear head. I'm sure I will be dreaming Noalls and Quicks tonight

Still no further ahead on the second Thomas as yet, and haven't found any of the family on the census returns either. Will have to leave that one for tomorrow.

[Cornish Terrier]

I had not actually 'formerly' linked Alexander (m. Sarah) to the family prior to this but then I had left the family on the 'backburner' for a bit whilst working on other problems.

But in general terms I have previously come to similar conclusions.

I do have a couple of issues with the various Alexanders but will look at those a little later.

What I note here that is interesting, and possibly helps with my own NOALL connection, is the use of the name of Prudence.

My 2xgt=grandmother was Betsy NOALL whose parents were William NOALL and Nancy KERNICK who married at St Ives 27th December 1810.

Although there was no Prudence amongst Betsy's siblings she did have an aunt of that name.

Betsy's father William was the son of Alexander NOALL m. Honor MAJOR 8th August 1779 St Ives.

William s/o William m. Ann STEVENS 6th February 1748 St Ives.

William s/o John m. Prudence QUICK 24th November 1702 St Ives.

At least that is the way I see it.

[cornishmaid]

So we may finally have linked our Noalls together?

I typed a very long response giving my findings so far regarding Thomas Noall's ancestry and descendents... and the computer turned itself off Seems to be doing so regularly at the moment, so bear with me.

Just have to figure out how to change my database around now to reflect the changes regarding Thomas and Elizabeth Quick. It doesn't help when I keep having to save changes every minute just in case my computer has a funny five minutes

Next job though is to figure out who Thomas Noall number 2 is, the one who married Elizabeth Bevan . Wish me luck

[Cornish Terrier]

We need to somehow find a little more detail on that second Thomas.

I think I tried the usual things in the 1841 Census such as searching for Elizabeth/Elizth born St Ives about 1766 without success.

Might have another look tomorrow and see if I can think of any other combinations to try.

1851 might be worth a try also but they are getting into their 80's by then so might just be clutching at straws.

But from what looked a so far I think Thomas might be one of the two baptised in 1767.

Will have another think and look at it tomorrow.

Right now it's off to bed.

[gandolf]

I don't know whether you already have it, but Grace Leddra Noall married twice.

Firstly to James Bryant Hollow/Holla to whom she had three children in the early 1840's. After James's death in 1846, Grace remarried by the early 1850's to John Tergurtha (Tregurtha??) to whom she had at least another two children.

[cornishmaid]

Hi Gandolf

I also have 3 children to James Bryant Hollow and Grace Leddra Noall:
James Bryant Hollow bapt 4 March 1842
Elizabeth Ann Hollow b. 1843 c.
Grace Hollow b. 1845 c.

And 2 children to Grace and John Tregurtha:
John Tregurtha b. 1852
Ellen Jane Tregurtha b. 1855

Are these the same ones you have?

Bless her, Grace outlived both husbands

[cornishmaid]

I may have found another child to Thomas Noall and Elizabeth Bevan:

Jane Noal, bapt. 5 July 1806, St Ives to Thomas and Elizabeth Noal

If Elizabeth Bevan's parents were indeed John Bevan and Jane Harvey (who married 4 September 1757) it would make sense that Thomas and Elizabeth may name one of their children after Elizabeth's mother.

Will see if I can find any burials or census information for this Jane Noal(l).

Possible children so far for Thomas Noall & Elizabeth Bevans would be (with possible cause for name in brackets):

Thomas (Father)
William
John Bevans (Grandfather on mother's side)
Elisabeth (Mother)
Philip
Andrew
Jane (Grandmother on mother's side)

Will investigate further for links to a William on either side.

[gandolf]

Cornishmaid,

Yes the children you list are the same ones I have for Grace Leddra Noall.

You say she outlived both her husbands - could you provide death details for Grace and her second husband for my records?

[cornishmaid]

Hi Gandolf

John Tregurtha died in the 2nd quarter of 1885, age 67 (Penzance RD, Vol: 5c; Page: 185)

Grace died in the first quarter of 1891, age 77
(Penzance RD, Vol: 5c; Page: 217)

I have more details of John and Grace's daughter Ellen Jane. If you would like them just give me a shout.

[cornishmaid]

CT, I'm a bit confused about your post regarding your 2xgrt grandmother Betsey Noall (could be the red wine ).

Just trying to sort out the lineage, but getting a bit confused. Betsey Noall's parents were William Noall and Nancy Kernick
Betsey's father William had an aunt called Prudence and was the son of Alexander Noall and Honour Major who married 8 August 1779?

Which William then was the son of William who married Ann Stevens on 6 February 1748?

Is there a generation missing?

[Cornish Terrier]

That is the way I see it.
William and Nancy (Kernick) named a daughter Honor Major NOALL (you will find her recorded as Henry Major!) and I have enough evidence via marital information etc. to be comfortable with this.

William s/o William and Ann (Stevens) I am currently unsure about.
He was baptised in 1752 but I am yet to find any more about him except that he was the elder brother of Alexander.

In fact, the onl other member of the family I could claim to know anything about just now is sister Prudence who I believe to be the one who married Ephram MAJOR at St Ives 29th November 1789.

Another for the list of things to try and do tonight.

But I am as sure as I can be that the line from Betsy goes back to Alexander, then William and Ann, John and Prudence and then I believe John and Elizabeth for whom I am yet to find a marriage.

In fact I only have the one son for them at the moment. - John born 1678. (I had better have another check of that also.)

There is a possible link to Samuel NOALL, merchant, who married Jane FOSTER at St Ives in 1682 but I have not yet pursued it.

Samuel was a name used in the family of the younger John.

More late.

CT