Having duly grazed it is time to begin outlining the results of my more recent studies into this current problem.
And it would appear now that Sampson Thomas NOALL may hold the key to answering a few of the questions that have either already arisen or can be found lurking in previous notes.
The first problem with Sampson is that his age as it appears in the 1851 and 1861 Census is consistent with a birth of about 1791 or 1792. And even his age of 45 in the 1841 Census would indicate this as a fair deduction.
However, there is no record that I can find of a Sampson NOALL before 1800 when Sampson Thomas NOALL s/o Richard and Mary was baptised at St Ives.
This is the second time I have discovered that I could not find a baptism at St Ives (or anywhere else for that matter) for a child named Sampson around the early 1790's. - Coincidence?
It now appears that there may be quite a number of baptisms missing for that period at St Ives.
QUESTION - was sampson baptised soon after he was born?
I now think not!
He was the son of Richad NOALL who had married Mary (nee THOMAS) widow of Robert QUICK at St Ives in 1783.
There are only three known children to Richard and Mary - Richard bp. 1785, Ann bp. 1788 and then Sampson bp. 1800!!
A rather large gap which leads me to the conclusion that Sampson was actually about 8 or 9 years old when baptised.
And there is no further record for a Sampson who would have been born about 1800.
ANOTHER interesting item I have only just found to add to this discussion:-
Ann d/o Robert and MARY QUICK baptised 8th December 1811 at St Ives
This entry is about to become integral to the discussion.
The curious thing about this entry is that there is NO record of any further children to this couple AND there is no record of a marriage for Robert QUICK to Mary apart from the 1774 marriage to Mary THOMAS!
My opinion is that this is another error and that the mother is actually ELIZABETH.
And now to the main discussion.
Sampson Thomas NOALL died in 1863.
1841 Census - Gabriel Street, St Ives
Sampson NOALL, 45, joiner
Elizabeth QUICK, 60
Ann QUICK, 25
Initially I had two possibilities for the identity of Elizabeth and Ann QUICK but now there are three:-
Possibility #1
Anna Maria bp. 9th August 1816 at St Ives d/o William and Elizabeth (nee CURNOW).
William ws buried at St Ives 24th May 1829 and was the son of Richard and Honour (nee JENKYN) QUICK.
I am sure Lannanta will view that information with interest.
Possibility #2
Ann bp. 26th May 1815 d/o Robert (joiner) and Elizabeth QUICK
'A' Robert QUICK was buried at St Ives 17th February 1822 age 45
Possibility #3
Ann bp. 8th December 1811 d/o Robert and Mary (now believed to be Elizabeth) QUICK
Before proceeding here are some more 1841 Census entries of interest:-
1841 Census - Glovers Street, St Ives
Elizabeth QUICK, 65, independant
Anna do., 25
This will be the widow of William QUICK and I believe has nothing to do with the scenario EXCEPT that William was the son of Richard and Honour.
1841 Census - Fore Street, St Ives
Eizabeth QUICK, 60
Paul do., 30, white smith
Nanny do., 25, dressmaker
1841 Census - Fore Street, St Ives
Thomas TREVAN (TREVORROW), 35, miner
Mary do., 30
children
Mary TREVORROW, 70
Robert QUICK, 65, joiner
I believe that Sampson NOALL is related to Elizabeth QUICK and the initial subject of this thread was the identities of the wives (both Elizabeth) of two separate Robert QUICKs.
Initially we had but ONE Ann as a daughter of Robert and Elizabeth and she was baptised in 1815.
But from the Census entries above it is clear now that there must have been a second and that each family had a daughter of that name.
Hence the importance of the 1811 entry with Mary recorded as the mother's name.
Here now are entries from the 1851, 1861 and 1871 Census that are important to the discussion and also to my conclusions which will follow.
1851 Census - Gabriel Street, St Ives
Arthur ROSEWALL, head, mar, 44, shipwright, St Ives
Mary do., wife, mar., 41, St Ives
Arthur do., son, unm., 11, scholar, St Ives
M Q do., daur, 9, scholar, St Ives
S. T. N. do., son, 11 mths, scholar, St Ives
Sampson NOAL, uncle, unm., 59, joiner, St Ives
1861 Census - Gabriel Street, St Ives
Arthur ROSEWALL, head, mar., 53, shipwright, St Ives
Mary Q do., wife, mar., 51, St Ives
Arthur do., son, unm., 21, shipwright, St Ives
Mary Q do., daur, unm., 19, St Ives
Sampson do., son, 11, St Ives
Sampson T NOALL, uncle, 69, retired carpenter, St Ives
1871 Census - Gabriel Street, St Ives
Arthur ROSEWALL, head, mar., 63, ship carpenter, St Ives
Mary do., wife, mar., 61, St Ives
Mary Q do., daur, unm., 29, St Ives
Sampson T do., son, unm., 20, school assistant, St Ives
Two Questions:-
What was Sampson NOALL's relationship to Elizabeth and Ann QUICK?
What was Sampson NOALL's relationship to Arthur ROSEWALL and his family?
Arthur ROSEWALL married Mary QUICK at St Ives 22nd September 1833
Mary QUICK was bp. 6th April 1810 at St Ives d/o Robert and Elizabeth QUICK
The two families of Robert and Elizabeth QUICK that are involved here:-
Robert QUICK married Elizabeth TRENERRY 17th February 1803 at St Ives
Robert QUICK married Elizabeth STEVENS 3rd January 1807 at St Ives
Discussion about the children of these two families took place in previous postings and it seemed that Gandolf, Lannanta and myself were in 'reasonable' agreeance on the outcome of those discussions.
BUT I now have reason to question some of my own outcomes.
THE PROBLEMS
1. As mentioned above - the relationhship of Sampson NOALL
2. Which Elizabeth married which Robert QUICK.
3. Which Robert QUICK was buried in 1822.
4. Exactly which children belong to which family.
In regards to 3. - the answer to this will determine which Robert was living at Fore Street in 1841 and was therefore the Robert QUICK buried at St Ives in 1855.
Once again I will list the children involved (including the 'new' Ann) after which I will close this note and continue in another.
All children baptised at St Ives:-
01 Apr 1804 - Elizabeth Thomas
25 Oct 1805 - Robert
15 Aug 1806 - Thomas
20 Dec 1807 - Robert
24 Jun 1808 - Robert
19 Nov 1809 - Paul
06 Apr 1810 - Mary
08 Dec 1811 - Ann (d/o Robert and Mary)
29 Nov 1812 - Elizabeth
08 Mar 1813 - James
26 May 1815 - Ann
09 Feb 1817 - Wilmot
Continued .....