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Post by Glazin2018 on May 17, 2018 20:53:45 GMT -5
CT et al
I am interested to know who the Ambrose Quick is who appears in South Australia in the 1880s and married Miss Mary Osborne. Said to be the son of a William Quick, and born around 1862 although his arrival in 1878 had him as 20 year old labourer. I believe he died in 1905 if the newspapers are to be believed and his wife Mary in 1917.
Lannanta
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Post by Cornish Terrier on May 18, 2018 5:32:54 GMT -5
Hi Lannanta - I believe I have most of the answer to this except for the identity of the supposed father William Quick.
Ambrose Quick first appears in the 1871 Census at Ludgvan:-
1871 Batreva, Ludgvan William PASCOE, head, marr, 22, farm labourer, Ludgvan Caroline Ann PASCOE, wife, marr, 28, labourer's wife, Ludgvan James POLGREAN, Father Law, Widr., 68, mason, Ludgvan Ambrose QUICK, grandson, 14, farm labourer, Ludgvan
Obviously this is confusing as 14-year-old Ambrose could not possibly be the grandson of William Pascoe who was then aged only 22! Logic therefore suggests that the grandfather was actually James Polgrean. But also causing a little concern here is that Caroline Pascoe is only age 28 yet she, again logically, would appear to be the mother of Ambrose.
I guess you have tried earlier Census records and been unable to find Ambrose? In actual fact he is there in 1851 but you need the above information to find him.
1861 White Cross, Ludgvan Jane JAMES, head, unmarried, 56, Ludgvan Ambrose POLGREAN, lodger, 4, Ludgvan
My conclusion quite some time back was that Ambrose was the illegitimate son of Caroline Ann Polgrean. She was baptized at Ludgvan 24th December 1848 to parents James Polgrean and Caroline Catran but was actually born in 1841 and thus about 16 or 17 when Ambrose was born. Unfortunately I have not been able to find a baptism or even an indexed birth record for Ambrose or any reason why he should be away from his mother in 1861. On the night of the 1861 Census Caroline Ann Polgrean was living with her widowed father and three brothers at Ludgvan Churchtown.
Although very confusing it is the 1871 Census that identifies Ambrose for us.
Caroline Ann Polgrean married William Pascoe at Ludgvan 25th March 1871 and had three children with him before he died in 1876. By 1878 Caroline was having children with George Badcock but as I have been unable to find a marriage record I must presume, for now, that they never married. In all there were five children to George and Jane with all registered as Badcock. Caroline died at Ludgvan and was buried there 11th February 1891. George Badcock lived until 1903 and was buried at Ludgvan 16th February that year.
Re William Quick - the name Ambrose suggests a link to the Gwennap family in which case the culprit 'may' have been the son of Ambrose Quick and Jane Roberts baptized at Gwennap 19th April 1812. He married Mary Jenkin at Gwennap in 1841 and had six children to 1854 and she lived until 1886 but according to the 1861 Census William died sometime between 1854 and 1861 so it is definitely possible he was the father of Ambrose. I have not found a death/burial record for William as yet so he may have died overseas but I would not discount the possibility that Mary said she was a widow purely because William had been a 'naughty boy'.
Returning to the subject of your query - Ambrose Quick married Mary Osborne at Trinity Church Adelaide 7th October 1885 and he died 2nd October 1905 at Parkside, SA. Mary was born at Angaston, SA 24th May 1862 daughter of Thomas Osborne and Mary Savidge and she died at Hindmarsh, SA in 1917. I have not traced Thomas Osborne as yet but he was age 24 when he married in 1854 and so born around 1829/30.
CT
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Post by spikeharwood on May 18, 2018 16:31:53 GMT -5
Ambrose Quick married Mary Osborne at Trinity Church Adelaide 7th October 1885 CT ....and Groom's father is given as William Quick
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Post by Glazin2018 on May 18, 2018 17:52:02 GMT -5
CT
I must be taking a while to get into this again... I had assumed that he was probably from parts other than Cornwall and your notes bring it all back into place. In Tiverton for example in 1839 somebody named their son Ambrose Quick, however he died in the same quarter.
Yes I see that William and Mary had a son they named William Ambrose Quick in 1853 and who went on to marry in 1880 so your suggested connection makes sense. I too do not have a death for William and I am reasonably sure that he did not die in Cornwall. There are a couple of options in NSW in 1885 and 1889 but no way to verify anything either way.
I cannot find a civil birth entry for Ambrose either, and neither can I find one for his mother Caroline Ann so, if it is just not be being dull, then maybe fulfilling their civic duties was not a priority for the family? In the 1871 census you point out that Ambrose was a farm labourer and on the SA emigration form Ambrose Quick is listed as an Ag Lab.
I think I will make him a tentative connection to William and Mary and leave it at that.
Lannanta
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Post by Cornish Terrier on May 19, 2018 2:03:55 GMT -5
James and Caroline Polgrean had eight children between 1828 and 1841 with only two of those born after the start of Civil Registration - neither of those two (John 1840 or Caroline Ann 1841) appear to have been registered. Perhaps the fact that James himself was illegitimate (bp. 25th January 1802 son of Bridget Polgrean) may have had something to do with it but it may also have been because civil registration was new and apparently only very loosely controlled at first. As time went on regulations were tightened and, eventually, penalties introduced and increased for non-compliance. It is interesting to run a wildcard search for 'polgrean' on FreeBMD - using the search term 'p?lgr*' I found just one entry up to the end of 1841! Ambrose Quick at Tiverton 1839 - he is most interesting and I must thank you for bringing him to my attention. The GRO Index shows that this Ambrose Quick's mother was a Davey but it wasn't until I checked the Devon BTs (FamilySearch) that I was able to discover who she was or anything about the marriage. James QUICK and Sarah DAVEY both of this Parish were married by Banns 10th June 1832 at Tiverton, Devon with Thomas Delerew and E. Sharland as witnesses.
With the name Ambrose having associations with the Quick family at Gwennap this now gives us two families of James and Sarah Quick having connections to both Cornwall and Devon. (The other is James Quick and Sarah Ann Watkins who baptized children at St Ives) As neither James is yet identified it seems a little time exploring the possibilities might be in order. Should I come up with anything interesting or helpful it will be posted here. CT
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Post by Cornish Terrier on May 19, 2018 5:22:54 GMT -5
I have not been able to find out too much about James Quick and Sarah Davey but there might be enough to suggest an earlier link to Gwennap. James Quick was born at Tiverton about 1804 and died there in 1887. Sarah Davey was also born at Tiverton about 1810/11 and possibly died about 1900 when there are at least two Sarah Quick Deaths in the Tiverton area of similar age. The children for James and Sarah:- William bp. 25th October 1833 Tiverton (died March Qtr 1851) Ann bp. 17th June 1836 Tiverton Ambrose born 1839 and died 1839 Tiverton Clarissa born 1842 Tiverton George born 1844 Tiverton and married 1873 Tiverton to Mary Winzer Dorcas Harriett born 1847 Tiverton William James born 1851 Tiverton James possibly son of another James Quick born c.1776-1781 1841 Census Tiverton James Quick age 60, shoemaker James Quick age 35, ag lab Sarah Quick age 30, lace wiender William Quick age 8 Ann Quick age 5 So far I have not found any earlier records for Tiverton which might give me a baptism for James or marriage for his parents. Confusing matters a little is the marriage of James Quick and Sarah Dentford also at Tiverton 9th April 1815. Confusing things further is that James was a cordwainer/shoemaker also and as he was age 55 in the 1841 Census probably just a few years younger than the father of Ambrose. James Quick and Sarah Dentford had a number of children baptized at Tiverton including son James in 1824. CT
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Post by Glazin2018 on Aug 3, 2018 20:23:13 GMT -5
CT Is it possible that this family has been discussed before?
My notes have an 1841 census with Sarah, a 30 year old governess at Necledry (Nancledra), Cornwall with a 12 year old daughter Sarah and 2 year old James.
James and Sarah Jane appear in the St Ives baptisms in 1839 and 1836 respectively with another daughter Martha also baptised with Sarah in 1836. Martha drowned off the schooner Albion near Plymouth in early 1840 according to the newspaper.
Sarah senior married again in 1842 at Plymouth to Charles Pyne and was a widow again by 1851 but with two children at least to Mr Pyne.
Given the baptisms at St Ives and the family living near Towednack, it is possible that James was from this area?
Lannanta
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Post by Glazin2018 on Aug 4, 2018 4:33:56 GMT -5
CT
For what it is worth I believe that James Quick was the son of James Quick and Jane Michell.
Lannanta
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Post by Cornish Terrier on Aug 4, 2018 4:42:21 GMT -5
Yes, we have discussed James and Sarah in the past but with no resolution. The marriage of James Quick of His Majesty's Ship 'Britannia' and Sarah Ann Watkins of Plymouth St Andrew took place at Plymouth St Andrew 10th May 1825 with Ann Wright and James Boulter as witnesses.
I have four children from this marriage - Sarah Jane born Plymouth Dock 3rd August 1826 and baptized 5th March 1827 at the Plymouth Dock Wesleyan Methodist Chapel Sarah Jane born about 1829 and baptized 29th May 1836 at St Ives Martha baptized 29th May 1836 at St Ives and buried 25th March 1840 at St Ives James born 26th October 1839 St Ives and baptized 8th November 1839 at St Ives
I have searched but been unable to locate the article you mentioned about Martha's drowning so if you have a copy or can point me to it I would like to see it please. I don't have details of the marriage to Charles Pyne but I also just found Sarah and the Pyne children in 1851 based partly on the information you've provided and partly on a search for the children in the GRO Index. No sign of son James Quick or daughter Sarah and I have no idea what happened to their father James Quick.
As for the origins of James Quick - I have always considered it possible he was from St Ives or surrounds but have never been able to identify him but there are some possibilities. Two of those possibilities were baptized in 1785 so would have been 23 years older than Sarah Watkins and therefore are the least likely. Also one of these (probably son of Richard and Honour) will have married Ann Curnow at Gulval in 1817). The other 1785 James was the son of James Quick and Mary Humphrys.
The next candidate is James son of James Quick and Jane Michell baptized at St Ives in 1796 - but I suspect he is the unmarried sailor at Bodmin Asylum in 1871 and buried at Bodmin 29th January 1872.
My final two Cornish contenders are James son of Thomas Quick and Grace John baptized at Lelant in 1805 and James son of Israel Quick and Catherine Repper baptized at St Ives in 1805. Unfortunately, if James Quick was from Cornwall and if he was one of the above then the names of James and Sarah's children do not provide any assistance in solving the problem.
CT
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Post by Glazin2018 on Aug 4, 2018 5:05:14 GMT -5
CT
I only have some old notes that came from the 1831 navy records which talk about a James Quick of HMS Britannia making an allotment to his wife in Sept 1831. At that time there was one daughter. Then another note saying that James Quick in 1829 was 30 years old and from St Ives.
So when Sarah married Mr Pyne she was said to be a widow, however there is no death for a James Quick between the reference to him in the newspaper when his daughter died in 1840 and 1842 when she married. I reckon that he went to the Asylum and I reckon he died in 1873.. as opposed to 1872....
Do you have access to FindMyPast as I am afraid that I do not..... I am sure that I had a note saying that James was stated to be a lunatic but I cannot find that in my mass of paper.
Lannanta
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Post by Glazin2018 on Aug 4, 2018 5:14:00 GMT -5
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Post by Cornish Terrier on Aug 4, 2018 9:13:15 GMT -5
The one flaw in this is that there is an assumption that James was not at sea when he died. Had he died at sea (or been lost at sea) it is unlikely his death would have been registered with St Catherine's House. But as the Britannia was a Naval vessel then there should be a record of what happened to him. The next issue is that James was obviously still alive in 1839 and possibly well beyond yet just three years later his wife remarries as a widow. Even if James Quick were in an Asylum Sarah would hardly be classified as a widow. Assuming James did indeed survive and Sarah was allowed to remarry then yes, the Bodmin burial could be him. (And you are quite correct, the burial was 29th January 1873 and not 1872 ) Of the currently unaccounted for James Quicks in my database the favorite then has to be the 1796 son of James Quick and Jane Michell with his age being out by about 4 years. Hmmmmmmmmm!!!! I've just now read the Death Notice from the link you provided and there is a pretty fair possibility that the answer is spelt out right there!!! If it is not 'the' answer then it is certainly a viable alternative. The first important piece of information to consider is the following entry from the St Ives Parish Register: And now here is a transcript of the entry from the Deaths Column of the Royal Cornwall Gazette dated Friday 27th March 1840:- At St Ives, on Monday last, Wm. Jennings, aged 78. Also, the infant daughter of Mr James Quick, who was drowned a few months ago in the schooner Albion, Samuel, master, near Plymouth.You may need to read that two or three times (as I did) before it becomes clear but I would suggest that this clears up the mystery. This Death Notice is dated 2 days after the burial of young Martha Quick and the inference (as I read it) is that she died on the same day as Wm Jennings - i.e. Monday 23rd March. After all, if Martha had died 'a few months ago' it seems hardly likely she would be buried at St Ives after so much time. If her body had been recovered she would have been buried almost immediately but after several months I very much doubt any remains would have been recognizable. My reading of the notice therefore is that it was James Quick who was drowned near Plymouth 'a few months ago'. BTW - there is a death in the GRO Index that would fit James although I doubt it is him. December Qtr 1840 Bristol James Quick age 40. I'm not sure where that will leave the 1873 Bodmin burial but he was from St Ives also. If my take on the death notice is correct then I think James of 1840 and James of 1873 are problably 1. 1796 son of James and Jane and 2. 1805 son of Israel and Catherine. Ages are out by a few years whichever way you look at it but working out just which one was which is still the major problem. I don't have a subscription to FMP but I know someone who might help. If you still want a lookup done please outline what you need with as much info as possible and I will see what can be done. CT
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Post by Glazin2018 on Aug 4, 2018 15:41:10 GMT -5
Yes CT
I agree. As you say you have to read it a few times before it comes clear. So James Quick dies in 1840 near Plymouth and the family are still in St Ives where they are found at Nancledra in 1841, and Martha is buried in March 25th 1840... at some stage after the census Sarah moves to Devon and marries again in 1842 to Mr Pyne, who is a marine.
I will get back into that paperwork and see if I can find some of the other notes etc that I had on this issue.
BTW there is another death for James Quick in December 1839 and that is at St Germans which is "just off Plymouth" - aged 44 years - which fits the son of James and Jane to a T??
Lannanta
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Post by pollyq on Aug 4, 2018 18:05:15 GMT -5
You are spot on Lannanta. I've been reading the newspaper reports on FMP of the shipwreck of the Albion which happened between 1-2 am on the 28th September 1839 at Whitsand Bay. Unfortunately James Quick is not named in the reports, but the master is George Samwell (Samuel in some articles) which ties in with the death notice of James' daughter.
I also found the same death registration as you have found and it ties in neatly. Finding a burial in the St Germans area would be the cherry on the top.
I can send you the newspaper clippings if you want. It's a sad tale.
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Post by Cornish Terrier on Aug 4, 2018 18:40:07 GMT -5
Lannanta - I'd like to see some of that paperwork also if you can find it. And well spotted with the St German's death record - right next to the other one in the GRO Index ...... and I missed it! As you say, age 44 matches perfectly with our son of James Quick and Jane Michell. I have had a quick look but there is no burial in the OPC records for James in 1839. The three most likely Parishes for a burial, provided he was buried in the vicinity of where he died, would be Rame, Antony, St John, Sheviock or Maker. I have the burial register for St John and he is not there and nor is he at Sheviock which registers I also have. FamilySearch have the Maker BTs covering that period and I was able to check them but again to no avail. I don't have much at all for Antony after 1812 and just a few marriages for Rame and unfortunately FS has nothing that will help. I also don't have burials for St Germans for that period but although fairly close I doubt he would have been taken there. Whitsand Bay is just off Antony and St John so they would be more likely I think. Polly - I'd appreciate seeing those newspaper articles also if you could drop copies to me please. I think I will add that death record to the database tentatively and hope one of us can locate something a little more definite. All the signs do look good though. CT
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