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Post by spikeharwood on Aug 6, 2014 20:20:32 GMT -5
Seeing as the Curnow name is being discussed elsewhere I thought I'd mention mine.
I have a John Nicholas bp 1704, Ludgvan m 1728 Ursula Badcock, source is OPC
His parents have been suggested as John Nicholas and Blanch Curnow b1682. I have no source for this couple. Do the keepers of all things Curnow have any info on Blanch? Or is she just a best fit mother of convenience?
Spike
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Post by Cornish Terrier on Aug 7, 2014 2:51:46 GMT -5
Given I can find no record of any such marriage along with the fact that the very earliest Blanch Curnow I am aware of was Blanch Stevens who married Richard Curnow sometime around 1715 I should say that someone is having a very big lend of someone!!!! CT
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Post by sue on Aug 7, 2014 3:16:06 GMT -5
Culling? Ouch! Whilst Blanch Stevens was the wife of Richard Curnow he baptized 1683 Towednack so let's impute Blanch was of much the same vintage, it would be my opinion that she pre-deceased her husband to burial 12 October 1726........ So what's with someone somewhere's notion about John Nicholas=Blanch Curnow I know not......... Albeit I have not yet located a marriage for Richard Curnow & Blanch - presumably in the missing period Towednack PRs - they had several children, oldest I believe being Sibella c1712. So, wharrrr? ?? This could be the 1st time I've come across a "mother of convenience" Sue
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Post by spikeharwood on Aug 7, 2014 3:21:00 GMT -5
Thanks CT. I think I know the tree and the owner responsible. He wasnt even capable of getting our common relative of the 1860's correct and didnt change it after I contacted him. Family Trees he said "are just for fun." He ultimately put the tree up for adoption and I pruned it heavily. Time to get out the long handled loppers for Blanch's branch.
Edit...and thanks for your reply too, Sue!
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Post by sue on Aug 7, 2014 3:24:17 GMT -5
Ah - I see "your" Blanch features in FS family trees!!! One of which has a marriage for John & Blanch at Ludgvan 28 July 1702.....
Thing is, the OPC transcription from Phillimores - & I have not looked for availabilitu of original image - has this as the union of John Michell & Blanch Carne......
Sue
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Post by spikeharwood on Aug 7, 2014 3:45:25 GMT -5
I'm inclined to think that "not mine anymore" Blanch has been spreading herself about a bit. I think I first bumped into her on OurFamTree but I've seen her on Ancestry and Mundia and Tribal Pages and elsewhere, all from the same gloved source. I haven't checked FS but I would have been somewhat surprised had she not been lurking there also!
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Post by spikeharwood on Aug 7, 2014 7:22:23 GMT -5
I have acquired a Laventine Roy Curnow as an outrider. I think everyone should have at least one Laventine in their family. Mine was born in Sth Aust 1889. Parents were Mary Ann Lennell, born SA and William Curnow possibly born Paul 1856. His parents were Thomas b Paul 1813 and Alice. Thomas' parents were Charles b St Ives 1770 and Sarah. Does this line ring any bells with anyone?
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Post by Cornish Terrier on Aug 7, 2014 8:12:24 GMT -5
These records for Ludgvan are online with FamilySearch and for those with Ancestry it appears all the FS images for Cornwall are now available on that site as well. As I have a copy of these myself I can verify that the Ludgvan Parish Register shows that on July 28th 1702 John MICHELL married Blanch CARNE. The entry is very legible and there can be no doubt .................... except perhaps for those who are not familiar with the old style 'e'. CT
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Post by sue on Aug 7, 2014 9:54:01 GMT -5
I am not aware that Charles Curnow 1770 St Ives - 1833 St Ives, wife Sarah Curnow 1777 Towednack - 1821 st Ives (Sarah of interest to Andrew of South Africa as she was child of Robert Curnow~Sarah Rogers according to me) - had a son called Thomas, nor would it be likely for a child of theirs to be born/baptized Paul: quite a different set of Curnows hung out there.... primarily the gardeners, some of whom did swan over to Aus.
So, where to start in checking out the facts? The marriage record/newspaper announcement of Wm Curnow~Mary Ann Lennell, presumably in Aus?
Sue
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Post by spikeharwood on Aug 7, 2014 23:07:05 GMT -5
From the Australian Marriage Index. I have seen several variations of the wife's surname. Name: William Curnow Father's Name: Thomas Curnow Spouse Name: Mary Ann Lennen Spouse's Father's Name: Edward Lennen Marriage Date: 12 Jul 1879 Marriage Place: Res Of William Curnow East Moonta Registration Place: Daly, South Australia Page Number: 202 Volume Number: 120
So father's name is Thomas. There were no William Curnows born in SA with father as Thomas. There is a William who some have suggested as our man, father Thomas (mother Alice) born 1856 in Paul and appearing in C51 and C61. I've gone off him a bit given the gardener background and our William has ended up in a mining town. Btw, I can't find William's age on anything. I have a likely dod but no burial as yet. However, I have found a family from Towednack arriving on the Queen Bee in March 1865. Thomas 36, Elizabeth 33, William 8, Thomas 1. On the same ship are Thomas 57,Jane 49, Alice White 14, Thomas 10 from Ludgvan. There is a single man, Richard aged 17 with parents, from Ludgvan. There is a second single man, William 18, from Cornwall. I'm interpreting that he is not of that family. I can find the family in C51&61 but no William. I'm leaning towards the younger William as he would be 22 at the marriage date, closer to her age of 17.
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Post by Cornish Terrier on Aug 8, 2014 0:44:07 GMT -5
Thomas Curnow was baptized at Paul 29th April 1812 son of Thomas Curnow and Honour Downing who married at Paul 24th July 1803. Thomas married Alice Payne James at Paul 24th February 1844
The elder Thomas Curnow was baptized at Paul I believe in 1768 and his parents were another Thomas Curnow and ANOTHER Honour Downing!! They married at Paul 13th July 1765.
I have not done any work on these Curnows for many years and still have a lot of detail to check and add to my database but that certainly is the line as I currently know it.
CT
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Post by sue on Aug 8, 2014 5:00:57 GMT -5
Hi I would have thought the William of Paul that CT says is likely your chap. A line I have some but limited knowledge of, as does not tie back to Towednack/Ludgvan/St Ives area. William on the Queen Bee Bee 1865 does not belong to Thomas, Jane on the same ship: Thomas being of Hannibal (I can do good names too! ) I have an interesting note that Trove has mention of a William + Richard Curnow whizzing off elsewhere in Aus post 1865..... That would perhaps support the idea of Richard & William being brothers, both sons of Thomas & Alice of Paul (he cooper at Richard's baptism.) You have now prompted me to find out what happened to Richard Rowe Curnow, 1847 son of Thomas & Jane of Ludgvan! There is a Richard Curnow m Elizabeth Griffin, I have 5 children for them NSW found via son William's WW1 record. I do not recall whether the crucial middle name of Rowe is in that record, or not, to differentiate Richard Rowe Curnow 1847 Ludgvan from Richard Curnow 1846 Paul....... A task for later. Sue
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Post by spikeharwood on Aug 8, 2014 7:45:38 GMT -5
Well it's Friday night and I can't juggle several ancestral balls and hang on to a glass of red at the same time. Some things will have to wait until the weekend. Curiously however, I have found a Thomas Rowe Curnow and a Richard Rowe Curnow marrying here in 1879 and 1877 respectively.
I'm a big Hannibal fan. Hannibal Julian from St Martin is my 3xg grandfather.My niece was married in March and I have suggested that the first baby be called Hannibal Cornelius McIntosh Harwood.
Now for some Curnow trivia. When i was looking up Trove today my search led me to Thomas Curnow, a school teacher from Glenrowan in Victoria. Apparently after Ned Kelly's gang descended upon the town they tore up the train tracks so that the train load of police that was on its way would be inconvenienced somewhat. "Your" Thomas managed to stop the train armed with little more than a box of matches, saving lives and leading to Ned Kelly's capture. The article was about him arriving in Melbourne to discuss his reward!
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Post by Cornish Terrier on Aug 8, 2014 9:15:53 GMT -5
WELL!!! Have I got news for you!!! Philip Curnow of Paul married Anne Curnow with Banns and a Certificate 28th April 1724 at Towednack Philip was the first named son or Richard Curnow of Paul in his Will dated 11th April 1732 and proved 13th May 1736 Now this family seems to have a history of sons named after their father marrying women with the same names as their mother! i.e. Richard Curnow (father of Philip) married someone named Prudence and, although the marriage cannot be found, his second son Richard married Prudence Tremewan around 1728. This marriage is known because of the Will of Prudence Tremewan's brother Thomas whose Will in 1765 names her as Prudence Courno, widow. And then a little later we have Thomas Curnow marrying Honour Downing with their son Thomas also marrying an Honour Downing! Confusin' ain't it! But back to the original Richard and Prudence in this line. The fact that Philip Curnow married another Curnow at Towednack suggests to me the possibility that the elder Richard might have some sort of connection to the Towednack family also. Bang goes your opening statement. CT BTW I believe Ann Curnow was the daughter of Peter Curnow and Jane Harris with Peter being son of Robert Curnow and Catherine Painter.
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Post by sue on Aug 8, 2014 11:27:13 GMT -5
Shoddy, shoddy post Sue, tut tut! Must stop doing this in haste from memory, but rather, refer to my hard-grafted records! Yes, I do have Phillip Curnow marrying Anne daughter of Peter 1724 Towednack, then begetting children in Paul, but had only followed them through with some certainty to the very early 1800s as yet, & they await further detailed work “one day”, like the Gulval Curnows, before I transfer them to my "proper" set of records..... Phillip son of Richard & Prudence yes; and per me, (I may be mistaken, I am dodgy on this lot in Paul and did find brother Richard-and-Prudence-the second's naming of their earliest children as Joan, Francis & Thomas unsettling, until you now tell me CT that Prudence the 2nd was a Tremewan, thus these names are for her mother, deceased brother & father/brother - guess who wore the trousers in that household!) the 1st Richard & Prudence is the Richard Curnow baptized August 1670 Ludgvan to single mother Jane Curnow of Gulval, with Jane being daughter of John Curnow & Joan Vibert, John Curnow being one of the 2 sons named John of the “original” Thomas Curnow of Towednack – so yes indeed all (well, nearly all!) roads lead back to Towednack. I think that would make Phillip 5th generation from the “original” Thomas Curnow, & wife Anne 4th generation, so some sort of cousin once removed is that called? Sue And P.S. one of Richard-and-Prudence-the-second's children (thanks for the identification of the 2nd Prudence CT, I didn't know that) was a Philadelphia Curnow, another excellent name.... P.P.S. The 3rd lot of Curnows on that popular Queen Bee sailing 1865 we have established as Thomas Curnow 1827 Ludgvan of Thomas Curnow & Jane Grenfell, his wife (1st wife) being Elizabeth James hence a son Thomas James Curnow 1863 then another, same name, by 2nd wife 1869 Daly SA. Darn confusing, these similar/same names! (And it may be that the Richard & William Curnow wandering Aus per Trove shipping reports could perhaps be 2 of the sons of John Curnow & Christian Uren of Mawgan Cornwall, who washed up in South Aus - another Curnow line I have little knowledge of as yet! Perhaps best leave those Trove entries as an identification job for another day: too many Curnow balls in the air at the minute, & that's without the glass of wine! ) P.P.P.S. I see my notes say it was R.R. Curnow who is NoK on son William Thomas Curnow's WW1 record NSW 1916 (died Somme 1918); so if we are talking Richard Rowe Curnow to be united in marriage with Elizabeth Griffin & having 4 NSW children that I know of in the 1890s, and that same man be he you Spike have a marriage record for in 1877 to Sarah Jacklin, only the one child Sarah 1877-1878 that I have found so far in SA & wife Sarah probably the death Strathalbyn 1880, then twice married sounds a possibility.... P.P.P.P.S. Spike: there was me thinking that Thomas Curnow schoolmaster of the Ned Kelly saga probably came from the Gwennap Curnows, descended from Abraham Curnow who upped sticks from the Towednack area 1672, having been born c1640ish of Henry Curnow of Lelant thus presumed to be gson of the "original" Thomas Curnow.... Very, very sorry CT, wandering all over the place: "culling" is such a large umbrella!
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