Two crew lists from 1881 and 1891

[Mal]

I found these two crew lists from 1881 and 1891 respectively, thought some of the names might be familiar and/or of use . Explains why these characters were not at home on the 1881 and 1891 census returns.

I would be interested to find out more about the vessels but am not sure how.

Briton Ferry Vessel dock 1881 Wales. Neath.
Sunday April 3rd 1881 RG11/5342
ED, institution, or vessel
"Chyandour"

Barzillai Beckerleg (Married) 32 Master born Penzance
Richard George Thomas (Married) 42 born Saint Hillary
Thomas Edwards (Married) 45 A.B. Seaman born Saint Keverne
John Davies (Married) 39 A.B. Seaman born Penzance

Signed. Bazillai Beckerleg (Jun)
NB- age last birthday.



Briton Ferry Vessel dock 1891 Wales. Neath.
Sunday Arpul 5th 1891 RG12/4463
ED, institution, or vessel
"Lanisley"


Barzillai Beckerleg (Married) 42 Master born Penzance
Richard George Thomas (Married) 52 Mate born Penzance
John Davies (Married)50 A.B. born Penzance
Richard Warren (Married) 26 A.B. born Penzance
Phillip R.M. Gilbert (Married) 26 A.B. born Penzance
Frederick Richards (Married) 19 Cook born Penzance

Signed: B. Beckerleg (Master)

[Cornish Terrier]

Malcolm - with names like that they are almost certainly Cornish vessels.

You could try the Falmouth Maritime Museum.

There is some discussion about that facility in a thread here along with one or two links as I recall.

I will need to check just which section it is in.

CT

[Cornish Terrier]

Malcolm - I have brought the thread to the fore!

Go to Cornish Resources under General Discussion and you will find it.

[Mal]

Thanks CT.

I am curious what they were doing between Penzance and Briton Ferry? Not fishing. I think they were transporting tin to Wales and coal to Cornwall. Just a hunch but someone told me this was an industrial route, not a fishing route.

Pity I'm not in Falmouth to go and see! Was in Falmouth in August though, very nice place indeed.

[Cornish Terrier]

Yes more of a merchant route that one.

Just had an article sent to me a couple of days ago about a Trewhella whose vessel 'John and Thomas' was captured and burnt by an American privateer.

This particular privateer had scored up quite a number of 'kills' from the newspaper report.

I had heard the story years ago of one of our lot being taken by a privateer off Lundy so this will be the one.

CT

[Mal]

The Cornish and Plymothian fishing fleets were often subject to terror on the high seas. As late as the 18th century the Ottoman fleets used to threaten the Western Approaches and capture the fleets so that the boys could be sold as "white slaves" in North Africa.

Going back a bit further in time, Bretonside in Plymouth is so named after the Breton "pirates" who burnt the quays at Plymouth in an attack. Seems like the Bretons, not unlike their Cornish cousins were also fond of a bit of "privateering" in the Channel.

One of the British reasons for the taxation of New England that led to the American War of Independence was that the Royal Navy had to patrol the coasts to protect shipping and merchandise from being harried by the French and other "private" enterprises.

I am also not sure about this, but I vaguely recall the Netherlands and the Isles of Scilly (perhaps Channel Islands) having been at "war" techincally for 300 years, in the 1980's someone discovered this forgotten about war and a peace treaty was signed ceremonially and simbolically.

Har... har... me lads!

[Cornish Terrier]

Not sure it would have been the Scillies although if it were I am sure it would have been an interesting war!

When I was there in 1994 the definition of the Scillies was "2,000 alcoholics clinging to a rock!"

Of course, painful as it was , I had to blend in somehow. ;D

[myghaelangof]

At the end of the English civil war the Royalists were still holding out in Scilly. They had a strong fleet and were inflicting heavy losses on the Dutch navy who were allied to the Parliamentarian forces. Hence on April 1651 the Dutch declared war on The Isles of Scilly. Due to the fact it was never a full bloodied conflict I guess someone somewhere forgot to sign a truce. This was eventually signed on 17th April 1986.
So, technically a 335 year war.

All's well that ends well.

[donne]

Oct 20, 2009 15:06:34 GMT -5 myghaelangof said:

Hence on April 1651 the Dutch declared war on The Isles of Scilly.

Surely this must be a myth! How can one nation declare war against a part of another. Looking at Wiki, en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Three_Hundred_and_Thirty_Five_Years'_War this says "In 1985, Roy Duncan, historian and Chairman of the Isles of Scilly Council, wrote to the Dutch Embassy in London to dispose of the "myth" that the islands were still at war. Embassy staff found the myth to be accurate and Duncan invited Ambassador Jonkheer Rein Huydecoper to visit the islands and sign a peace treaty. Peace was declared on 17 April 1986, 335 years after the war began. The Dutch delegate to the signing of the peace treaty joked that it must have been harrowing to the Scillonians to know that the Dutch could have attacked them at any time."

I'm sure it's all useful publicity for the tourist trade!

[Mal]

As far as I understand it it was not a real war as such, one of those things that got forgotten about. I vaguely remember the celebrations for the end of the war. The Dutch were not at war with the Scillies so much as the Royalists in the Scillies so it was not an official confilct as such.