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Post by kerthen on Jan 24, 2009 11:54:16 GMT -5
Thank you for doing the further work with the IGI to isolate the Benjamins -- and for providing the name of Amy TREMELLIN's husband.
I did more work on the family of Anne KING (widow of Benjamin TREMELLIN) last night and found that her brother William married Eliza RALPH, whose father John is one of those I discussed earlier in this thread -- he was the one who took Philip, his nephew as his heir in terms of land. John's wife was another Ann KING (though how she relates to the younger Anne and William I don't know). They are the children of Humphrey KING and Honor COURTIS of St Hilary.
To my way of thinking, this further substantiates the possibility of Anne KING TREMELLIN being the woman who married John PELLOW because she was clearly living in the right area and had many of the same associates. I will do some more work on the PELLOWs as well.
A cursory look at them seems to show a fair number of PELLOWs/PELLARs et al from the Breage area, though perhaps not John. We shall see.
Question: how would you indicate this possibility which is not precisely provable at the moment (of Anne KING being John PELLOW's wife) in your genealogical software so that you explain your reasoning. Would you simply put in Anne KING with two marriages and make the explanation in the notes?
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Post by kerthen on Jan 24, 2009 12:38:11 GMT -5
Oops, got it wrong. It was a younger Humphrey KING, likely a brother of Anne and William, who married Elizabeth RALPH in St Erth. Let me go back and rework these people. There are too many Elizabeths, Marys and Annes!
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Post by kerthen on Jan 24, 2009 13:06:11 GMT -5
Okay, sorted it. My confusion came from the St Erth parish records online where there is a William(?) KING listed as the man marrying Eliza RALPH in 1731. William, though, married Philippa JAMES in 1736. The baptismal records showing children of William KING and wife Philippa or Phillis, and those of Humphrey KING and wife Eliza, seem to sort out which KING brother actually married Eliza RALPH.
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Post by Cornish Terrier on Jan 24, 2009 19:49:35 GMT -5
Yes - I think that is the most simple and straightforward way to do it.
Quite easy with my program - but it should not be too difficult to separate the marriages at a later date should it be proved incorrect.
Seems to be enough evidence so far to suggest that it was the widow of Benjamin TREMELLIN who became Mrs PELLOW, though.
Have thought of something I need to work on for a little while so will hopefully be back with more shortly.
CT
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Post by Cornish Terrier on Jan 24, 2009 20:07:14 GMT -5
Okay - let's approach this from a different angle. Whoever Anne was there is one important point to consider. The last known child of John and Anne PELLOW was baptised in 1757 - four years after the previous child. So, allowing a couple of years for late baptisms and working on the very high probability that Anne could not have been more than 48 when that child was born I would place her birth at no earlier than about 1705 (and no later than about 1718 which would make her 15 when first married). I need to check my St Erth PRs but let's allow for the 'possibility' that IGI might have all the information we need in this case. A search for ANN TREMELLIN (var.) between 1698 and 1718 provides the following results - ZIP, ZILCH, ZERO! The same search for ANN KING provides:- 17th November 1713 at St Hilary d/o Humphrey and Honor or 25th October 1713 at St Hilary d/o Humphrey It would appear that these two events must be for the same child given there appears to be only one possible marriage:- Humphrey KING m. Honor COURTES 25th March 1706 at St Hilary Further to this is the interesting list of children for John and Ann PELLOW:- Mary (1741), John (1744), Benjamin (1747-1818), Jane (1749), HONOR (1753) and Elizabeth (1757). Looks extremely possible that any doubt may now have been eradicated. ;D CT
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Post by kerthen on Jan 24, 2009 20:55:08 GMT -5
Yes, I think that Anne KING is certainly the most likely prospect to have been the Ann TREMELLIN who married John PELLAR. I noted the Honor name as well.
Benjamin TREMELLIN was the son of Anthony and Ann TREMELLIN, bap at St Erth in 1706. A search for Anthony and Ann's marriage in the IGI shows it likely to be the marriage at Gwithian in 1692 between Anthony TREMELLIN and Amey JENKYN. This would suggest, too, that Benjamin's daughter Amy might have been named for his mother as well as for his wife (Ann).
There is a death of Amey TREMELLIN in 1719 at St Erth, followed two years later by the marriage of Anthony TREMELLIN to Grace TOM. So it looks as though the Amey JENKYN and Anthony TREMELLIN marriage is correct.
Too bad the person who wrote the marriage records didn't see fit to write "spinster" or "widow" after Ann TREMELLIN's name! It may be possible to get further evidence fitting these families together by using leases and rate records or probate records. I haven't tried any of them yet.
Also any discoveries of relationships between Amy (nee TREMELLIN) HONEYCHURCH and the PELLAR family could cement the identity of Ann TREMELLIN. I haven't looked at that yet, either.
But I do think that, right now, Anne KING, widow of Benjamin TREMELLIN, is the likely wife of John PELLAR.
As for John, the only one who seems to be in the IGI as a possibility is the John PELLAR born in Breage in 1706, son of Joseph. But there isn't enough evidence yet to do more than explore that identification as a possibility.
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Post by Cornish Terrier on Jan 25, 2009 1:01:11 GMT -5
Pretty much all fits with what I previously had and also now have. I had not entered the marriage of Anthony to Grace TOM and that is probably because I had never found any children for them. (Not to mention that Anthony was not recorded as a 'widower' : That is certainly a possibility worth investigating further. Anthony married Amy JENKYN at Gwithian 20th October 1691. I only have three children recorded for them at the moment but will check further on that shortly. William bp. 5th April 1698 St Erth Elizabeth bp. 25th May 1702 St Erth Benjamin bp. 15th December 1706 St Erth I believe Anthony will be the following:- bp. 20th December 1670 St Erth s/o James and Jone James TREMELLIN m. Jone MAYE 9th September 1669 James, in turn, possibly bp. 5th January 1639 St Erth s/o Gilbert and Beatrice Gilbert TREMELLIN m1. Jane ROBERTS 17th January 1624 St Erth Jane buried 14th May 1635 St Erth Gilbert TREMELLIN m2. Beatrice BUSHER 8th April 1638 St Erth Gilbert buried 1st August 1662 St Erth Beatrice buried 8th January 1648 St Erth Re Anthony's parents:- Anthony was the first child of James and Jone and may be the name of Jone's father. I have not gone into this yet but I do not recall this as a name in the TREMELLIN family prior to this. Next recorded child I have is Loveday followed by Gilbert, Beatrice and Beatrice. I now know why I only have three children for Anthony and Amy! I was expecting to possibly find some at Gwithian but between 1685 and 1697 there is only one year apparantly available and even that is transcribed as 169?. But there are none of the family in that year anyway. Hmmm - seems I was wrong about Anthony - IGI records events for Anthony and Sarah Tremellen at Redrutn in the 1690's. However, I can find no James, Jone or Amy baptised to Anthony TREMELLEN and they are names I might have expected. More work to be done! On the KING side I am working another line back to see if there might be a link. John TREWHELLA married Alice KING 1st December 1855 at Madron Alice was baptised 16th January 1831 at St Hilary d/o James KING and Mary. It now appears that James KING married Mary ROWE at St Hilary 19th August 1822 Mary was born at St Buryan and it seems that the family moved to Madron probably after James died. Mary was a widow by 1851 and they were at Madron at that time. Unfortunately I have been unable to find the family in the 1841 Census and, believe me, I have tried many and varied ways to track them down. (Obviously something I have not tried but ....) OPC records about four burials for James KING 'around' the right time but I have no way of being certain about any except a five-year old. Amongst the children are Charles Vincent KING, Richard Pearce KING and Ezekiel Rowe KING but I am not sure yet if any will help much. Hopefully have an update in an hour or so. CT
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Post by Cornish Terrier on Jan 25, 2009 10:03:25 GMT -5
Still no luck finding any of the family of James and Mary KING in the 1841 Census but I believe I am within a whisker of identifying James. It would appear that he must be one of the following burials:- 19th November 1841 at St Hilary age 69 of Relubbus Lane 9th April 1847 at St Hilary age 62 of Calenzia Common I am inclined towards the latter given that when son Ezekiel was buried in 1832 the family was living at Calenzia Common. However, when the next child was buried in 1834 they were 'of Downs'. Of the two above I equate the baptisms as follows:- bp. 31st March 1771 St Hilary s/o James and Ann bp. 20th June 1784 St Hilary s/o James and Elizabeth BUT - there is one further possible burial:- 4th July 1836 at St Hilar age 41 of Trewheela Lane (ruptured blood vessel in the lungs) The closest baptism to be any sort of match at St Hilary would be 8th April 1798 son of James and Grace. I am not really sure which way to go until I can somehow find the family in the 1841 Census. At least then I would know if James was still alive and that would then narrow it down to the 1847 burial. Just now I still have all three to contend with! This family has led me all over the place today and tonight so will give them a restfor a while. At least it dragged me back to a couple of Trewhella items I needed adding to. CT
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Post by londoner on Jan 25, 2009 11:01:19 GMT -5
Could this be them? or is is a different family entirely? St Hilary dist 12: Lower Downs,1,Mary King,,45,Independent,In county, William King,20,,Miner,In county, Prudence King,,15,Ore Dresser,In county, Rebecca King,,10,Ore Dresser,In county, Francis King,5,,,In county,
Charles and Alice are down the road at Relubbus but I dont know why no Ezekiel
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Post by Cornish Terrier on Jan 25, 2009 11:45:14 GMT -5
Thanks Londoner - unfortunately it is not them. Right age for Mary but there is no Prudence, Rebecca or Francis in the family I am looking for. Charles was baptised in 1829 as Charles Vincent King and Alice baptised in 1831. In later Census Records the age recorded for Alice buts her birth around 1833 or 1834 but I now know that to be incorrect. I have tried searching on Christian name only with an approximate year of birth, I have searched for Ring, Ling, Hing and a few others but still nothing. Also tried Charles and Chas, Alice and Allice, even just tried Charles Vincent out of desperation. I have even tried e.g. Alice born 1831 +/- 5 and checked every name that came up on the screen - still nothing! Will try and think of something else tomrrow. CT
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Post by kerthen on Jan 25, 2009 11:53:06 GMT -5
Goodness, you have been busy! I had a look for the KINGS in St Hilary in the census of 1851 just to see where they were living -- and there are, as you have no doubt seen, LOTS of them right around Relubbus, which is exactly where they would have been 200 years earlier. So apparently some of them didn't move far.
Your issue with "which James KING?" is similar to one I had in Crowan with "Which John RALPH?" as two of them died -- one right before and one right after the 1841 census. They were both born within a couple of years of each other in the 1780s (the 3rd born then had died in 1833) and both had wives and a fair number of children. It was a matter of following the children and studying the land records to get them sorted.
I think Londoner has an interesting census entry -- and if it's the right one, might indicate which James KING yours is, too. If he wasn't in the census, but his family was, he was likely the one who died earlier rather than the 1847 one.
I should have realized the TREMELLINs weren't mine when they became so easy to trace in the 17th century. I found the same material you did and came to much the same conclusions. Pity about the earliest James's son Gilbert dying in 1600 or so, as it would have pushed things back another couple of generations!
Ah, well.
Early records seem to put Humphrey KING, father of Ann, in St Erth, and he is said to be "of St Erth" at his burial in St Hilary in 1733. I haven't checked the films yet which might show him as a rate payer in a particular area of St Erth. Have you got him situated?
Pity about the Gwithian records, I thought as you did, that the first children of the Anthony and Amey TREMELLIN marriage might be recorded there.
And I noted on the "parish" threads that there is no thread for GWINEAR. Where does one go to ask a Gwinear question? The BARKERs of St Erth appear to have come from GWINEAR. Would like to find out if anyone here is researching BARKERs.
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Post by kerthen on Jan 25, 2009 11:55:29 GMT -5
Ah, sorry. I see you have already had a look at Londoner's census suggestion. I'll have a look today and see if I find anyone. But it seems as if you've already done things pretty thoroughly.
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Post by kerthen on Jan 25, 2009 12:16:18 GMT -5
The census record Londoner found, correlated with the IGI for baptisms at St Hilary, show Mary's husband to be John KING. They were listed as parents of Prudence King: 21 Nov 1824 (age 15 on 1841 census) Rebecca Thomas King: 16 Jan 1831 (age 10 on 1841 census) Francis King:5 Jan 1834 (age 5 on 1841 census)
Will continue to look.
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Post by newlyn on Jan 25, 2009 13:21:39 GMT -5
Genuki has the parish records of Gwinear.
Also plenty of Barkers from Gwinear on the IGI.
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Post by kerthen on Jan 25, 2009 15:08:22 GMT -5
Hi Newlyn, Yes, thanks. I've been delving into the parish records of Gwinear. And I got the Barkers that I have from the IGI. It's trying to sort them out that I'm now occupied with. And I am wondering if there is a place on these boards to post a thread about the Gwinear Barkers? Since some of them appear in St Erth, maybe this is the place?
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