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Post by cornishmaid on Jan 14, 2009 14:50:20 GMT -5
Another Stevens matter I am currently pondering over. Firstly some background: On 7 May 1811 Thomas Stevens and Honoria Rodd, Widow, were married in Ilfracombe, Devon. Honoria was born a Salmon (no comments please ); she married Thomas Rodd in 1807. Thomas and Honoria had 2 children that I can find, as follows: 1. Thomas Stevens, born 1813 in Ilfracombe, died 23 June 1869 in St Ives. Thomas married Elizabeth Quick Grenfell on 16 January 1840. (Elizabeth Quick Grenfell was the daughter of Anthony Grenfell and Martha Quick, currently under discussion elsewhere : 2. Honoria Salmon Stevens, born 1817 in St Ives, died 30 August 1870 in St Ives. She married William Rowe, and here I am to prove it Honoria (wife of Thomas Stevens) is easy to track down. Honoria Salmon was bapt. 14 January 1778 in Ilfracombe (IGI); she was buried in St Ives on 27 March 1857, age 81, putting her birth at circa 1776. It is Thomas Stevens I am having difficulty with. I have a death of 1822, which I have no corroborating evidence for. Without a death I cannot work out when he was born, and where. I have a feeling, however, that he came from St Ives. He was a Mariner, so it is possible he had travelled to the port of Ilfracombe and decided to stay for a while. I am trying to eliminate all the other Thomas Stevens he could have been. Fact - Thomas Stevens died prior to 1841; he married in 1811; Honoria was born c. 1776. There are two burials between 1813 and 1837 in St Ives: 1. 29 July 1817, age 50 (b. 1767 c.) 2. 3 September 1834, age 80 (b. 1754) Is the fact that his second child was born in 1817 indicative? Is that why the couple had no more children? Honoria would have been 41 by this time, however. Does anyone know what happened to any of the Thomas Stevens baptised in St Ives and what happened to them so I can rule them out? Have to run to pick up from Cubs a minute, but will post the St Ives baptisms of the relevant timescale when I get back. Any help much appreciated as always
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Post by cornishmaid on Jan 14, 2009 15:20:45 GMT -5
Bapstisms of Thomas Stevens' in St Ives: 29 June 1735, son of John & Christian 4 February 1754, son of David & Mary 24 August 1755, son of William & Mary 2 May 1756, son of John & Elenor (Mr & Mrs) 22 May 1768, son of James & Jane 14 September 1774, son of Henry & Ann Shame my Thomas Stevens & Honoria only had two children whom they named after themselves. Thomas Stevens Jnr and Elizabeth Quick Grenfell called their children Elizabeth, Martha, Honor, Honoria Salmon, Jane, Bessie & Thomas. Honoria Salmon Stevens and William Rowe called their children: Honoria, Charles, William and Thomas Stevens. (The name Charles runs through the Rowe side from an unknown source, and Honoria's grandfather was called Charles Salmon.) I don't know if that is of any help
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Post by cornishmaid on Jan 14, 2009 18:50:24 GMT -5
I have found one Thomas Stevens, but it looks like he is out of the equation. On 16 February 1795, at St Hilary, Thomas Stevens, of St Ives, married Alice Davey. Children baptised at St Ives: Mary 16 May 1796 Jane 6 September 1798 Francis 28 January 1801 Thomas 9 October 1803 Joel 5 October 1806 I thought that perhaps Alice had died, and that Thomas Stevens may have remarried Honoria Salmon in 1811. However, on the 1841 census, living at the Stennack are: Alice Stevens, Ind, 70, b. Cornwall Jane Stevens, Ind, 32, b. Cornwall No sign of Thomas, so he could have died by 1841. I have found most of the children on the census, including Thomas and Alice's son Thomas. I think it unlikely he would have called another son Thomas when the first was still living (although I have seen it on the odd occasion : . If Alice Stevens was 70 in 1841, she would have been born around 1771 (or a few years later given the rounding down in ages). Her husband Thomas may have been the son of James and Jane, baptised on 22 May 1768, or of Henry and Ann, baptised on 14 September 1774. Given that none of the children were called Henry or Ann, but one was called Jane, I am inclined towards the first of the two baptisms. However... my Thomas' son Thomas also called one of his children Jane
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Post by gandolf on Jan 15, 2009 4:21:02 GMT -5
Cornishmaid, Not sure whether this will help or hinder your search... Unless she is lying massively about her age, the Jane aged 32 with Alice Stevens at Stennack can't be the Jane Stevens christened in 1798. Unless my maths ability has left me ;D, Jane christened 1798 should be ten years older in 1841 at around 42, not aged 32. So perhaps this is another Alice and Jane Stevens?
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Post by cornishmaid on Jan 15, 2009 5:25:56 GMT -5
No, your maths ability is spot on there . Thank you for focussing me on Jane. I thought that perhaps she was a granddaughter, but looking at your comments, she was too old to be so. A daughter-in-law? As far as I can tell from the census returns, none of Alice's sons married a Jane. Francis married Elizabeth; Thomas married Mary; Joel married Elizabeth. A niece perhaps? The age of 32 is quite specific, putting her birth at c. 1809. There is a Jane Stevens baptised in St Ives on 8 October 1809, daughter of Matthew and Jane which could be her. Going back another generation, a Matthew Stevens was baptised on 2 March 1791 to Henry and Ann. Could Henry and Ann be the parents of the Thomas Stevens who married Alice Davey (Other Jane Stevens' baptised in St Ives, which might be a bit early: Jane Stevens, dau of James & Jane, bapt. 29 May 1803 Jane Stevens, dau of John & Jane, bapt 4 October 1803) All a bit circumstantial at the moment.. will have to delve further and see if any other male Stevens married an Alice also.
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Post by cornishmaid on Jan 15, 2009 6:42:11 GMT -5
Checked Phillimores for unknown Stevens' and Alice unknown marriages in and around St Ives. St Ives: Job Stevens & Alice Stevens - 29 January 1748 John Stevens, t., & Alice Grenfell - 3 September 1780Job Stevens, Mariner, & Alice Perkyns - 29 May 1804 At Lelant: Thomas Stevens, t., & Alice Harry - 3 February 1772 At Zennor: Nicholas Stevens & Alice Renoden, w. - 8 December 1798 (Couldn't find any at Towednack). The Alice we want was born 1771 c. Had better check 1841 census return to see if any of the above were still alive.
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Post by gandolf on Jan 15, 2009 7:32:29 GMT -5
Cornishmaid RE Henry & Ann Stevens... From what I can see, this is probably the Henry Stevens/Stephens who married Ann Coggar at St. Ives 25 Nov 1768. There children as far as I can see are: WILLIAM STEVENS Christening: 01 SEP 1771 Saint Ives JOHN STEPHENS Christening: 11 APR 1773 Saint Ives THOMAS STEPHENS Christening: 14 SEP 1774 Saint Ives JAMES STEVENS Christening: 27 FEB 1780 Saint Ives ABRAHAM STEVENS Christening: 27 FEB 1780 Saint Ives SAMUEL STEVENS Christening: 08 DEC 1782 Saint Ives MATTHEW STEVENS Christening: 02 MAR 1791 Saint Ives So Matthew did have a brother Thomas, who would have been around 21 at the time of the marriage of Thomas Stevens to Alice Davey at St. Hilary, and it would make sense therefore for a widowed Alice Stevens to have her niece Jane living with her in 1841. HOWEVER, there is one potentially rather large problem - Matthew Stevens apparent age. Or perhaps not? The Jane Stevens baptised in 1809 was the daughter of Matthew & Jane Stevens. The marriage was between Matthew Stevens and Jane Paynter at St. Ives on 10 Mar 1807. (Their daughter Mary Paynter Stevens baptised 16 Jun 1815) The problem? Assuming Matthew was baptised as an infant, the he could not have been more than about 16 at the time of his marriage. However, there is quite a large gap of 9 years between the baptism of Matthew's older brother Samuel and Matthew himself. Perhaps for some reason his baptism was as an older child rather than as an infant? Confirmation comes from the 1841 census: Piece: HO107/144/5 Place: Penwith -Cornwall Enumeration District: 1 Civil Parish: St. Ives Ecclesiastical Parish: - Folio: 9 Page: 10 Address: Wharf Surname First name(s) Sex Age Occupation Where Born STEVENS Matthew M 55 Fisherman Cornwall STEVENS Jane F 50 Cornwall STEVENS Mary F 26 Cornwall STEVENS Betsey F 23 Cornwall STEVENS Margaret F 15 Cornwall STEVENS William M 13 Cornwall STEVENS Richard M 10 Cornwall Matthew's age is 55, suggesting a birthdate anywhere between 1781 and 1786 allowing for rounding. So Matthew was probably between 5-9 years old when baptised. (daughter Mary above is the Mary Paynter Stevens baptised 1815) Given that there is only one family of Matthew & Jane Stevens in St. Ives at the time, and they are also the parents of Jane Stevens bap 1809 (she is the only Jane Stevens baptised at St. Ives between 1803 & 1816) who is living with Alice Stevens, then Alice Steven's husband Thomas Stevens must surely have been the brother of Matthew Stevens.
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Post by Cornish Terrier on Jan 15, 2009 7:49:06 GMT -5
A couple of points as I look over this information and commence my search. I can so far find no reference to Elizabeth GRENFELL (other than her baptism) where the middle name of QUICK was used. ;D The 1840 marriage refers to Thomas STEVENS as 'joiner' of St Ives son of Thomas STEVENS ' joiner'And in the 1851 Census Thomas is recorded as 'Master Joiner'. That may well be of some significence. Checking the baptism for Honoria in 1817 I note that her father, Thomas, is recorded as a mariner. I would suggest that he was possibly more of a 'ship's carpenter' - but whether that helps the problem I do not yet know. Some research to do and will hopefully be able to add to this a little later.
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Post by cornishmaid on Jan 15, 2009 8:19:11 GMT -5
Thank you Gandolf, your findings are much appreciated. Will go through it carefully later, as it does look as though that is one Thomas whom I can safely say is not my man ;D In the meantime, I have found some information which might help with my Thomas Stevens' death . I have been trying to figure out where I obtained a death of 1822 for Thomas... Trinity House Petitions - Series 2: Honoria Stevens, 42, wife of Thomas of St Ives, Cornwall, 1822. So a petition was put forward by Honoria in 1822 to Trinity House. I do not have the funds to obtain the full copy of what this petition contained at the moment. So, was the Thomas Stevens who was buried in St Ives in 1815 Honoria's husband? The age would fit nicely, and it may have taken a few years for Honoria to submit a petition to Trinity House. Or did he die at sea in 1822 ish and that is why a burial cannot be found for him? I am bit perplexed though, that it says "wife" of Thomas Stevens, rather than "widow" Does this mean that Thomas was injured rather than dead? Did he then become a joiner after his bad experience When their daughter Honoria Salmon Stevens was baptised, Thomas Stevens is clearly marked as a "Mariner". As you say CT, when Thomas Stevens Jnr was married, his father was listed as a "Joiner". It does not state his father is deceased. So, was Thomas Stevens still alive in 1840 when his son got married? He wasn't with Honoria in 1841, as she was with her daughter Honoria and her husband William Rowe. She is still with her daughter in 1851 when both of them are definitely widows. More questions than answers eh
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Post by gandolf on Jan 15, 2009 8:26:53 GMT -5
From a quick check earlier, there is a Thomas Stevens who died in 1840 - perhaps this is your man?
That being said, just because his father was not marked as deceased when Thomas Jnr married doesn't mean that that he was still alive.
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Post by cornishmaid on Jan 15, 2009 8:35:13 GMT -5
Agreed. I have just checked another Trinity House Petition, which I did manage to purchase some time ago, for Thomas and Honoria's daughter Honoria: Trinity House Petitions - Series 2: Honoria Rowe, 33, Widow of William, St Ives 1850. That one most definitely says "Widow of" not "Wife of"!
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Post by cornishmaid on Jan 15, 2009 9:38:41 GMT -5
Another snippet... From the West Briton, dated Friday 14 May 1847: At St Ives, on Saturday last, Alice, relict of Mr Thomas Stevens, aged 76 years. I think we can safely say this is the same Alice found in the 1841 aged 70, with Jane Stevens
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Post by Cornish Terrier on Jan 15, 2009 9:53:20 GMT -5
Re Matthew STEVENS I think you will find that he was baptised at St Ives 15th August 1784 s/o Matthew and Mary. Prior to that was a Matthew bp. in 1779 who should, if still alive, have been recorded as 60 in 1841. And then there is Matthew bp. 1787 s/o John and Jane who would probably have been recorded as age 50 in 1841. If Matthew was the son of Matthew and Mary then I know of only one sibling - Mary. Matthew of 1779 was son of Matthew and Elizabeth for whom I currently have only one other son - Benjamin. And the Matthew of 1787 was son of John and Jane but no Thomas there either. There is one family at St Ives where there are sons Thomas and Matthew. David STEVENS m. Mary MICHELL 4th February 1743 St Ives Matthew bp. 6th February 1748 Thomas bp. 4th February 1754 Thomas is very likely the same Thomas buried at St Ives in 1834 at the age of 80. But that does not help your problem as this Matthew is most unlikely to have been the man who married Jane Painter in 1807. BUT - He could possibly have been a nephew of Thomas which would make 32-year-old Jane a grand-niece of Alice in 1841. Of the two Matthew STEVENS buried between 1813 and 1837 neither was the brother of Thomas. If Matthew (father of Jane) was baptised in 1784 his parents were:- Matthew STEVENS m. Mary STEVENS 12th January 1783 I currently show Mary bp. 25th July 1742 St Ives d/o Paul and Mary. And, apart from the son of David and Mary, I appear to have only one other Matthew STEVENS as a possible husband for Mary and he was baptised at St Ives in 1735 s/o Matthew and Jane (nee DAVY). That Jane was a grand-niece appears the best scenario at the moment. CT
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Post by Cornish Terrier on Jan 15, 2009 10:48:55 GMT -5
As usual you have managed to slip a couple of posts in while I was compiling my little lot on Matthew, Alice and Jane. But I was going to query how you obtained the marriage information for Thomas and Honoria as you state that Honoria was the widow of Thomas RODD. I found it in IGI which obviously tells us little. I must take it therefore that you have seen some other evidence of the marriage. And I must also take it that there was no qualifying information for Thomas STEVENS - i.e. 'of _____' or anythng to suggest he might have been previously married. The mention of the Trinity House Petition of 1822 is interesting - especially when Honoria is recorded as 'wife of'. But I think you mean 1817 (not 1815) as the possible burial for Thomas - 29th July 1817 St Ives age 50. Gandolf - What 1840 death do you refer to for Thomas STEVENS. FreeBMD has numerous for 1840 but the only one for Cornwall was in the September Qtr at Helston R.D. There is one in 1837 for Penzance R.D. and another in 1838 for Truro R.D. Returning to the Petition - I would think that if Thomas were still alive it would have been he making the Petition and not Honoria and a definition I just looked at suggests 'merchant seamen or their widows'. We could thus consider seriously the 1817 burial. Assuming the age was correct and that he was born at St Ives he would probably have been the son of James and Jane (nee JENKIN) STEVENS who married at St Ives 6th January 1764. Problem is that we do not know he was born at St Ives in which case he may have been baptised at Lelant 21st February 1768 s/o Thomas and Susannah (nee TREVORROW). It is certainly of concern that the petition was made in 1822. I would have expected it much earlier if Thomas died in 1817. So we still have to consider that he was lost at sea. Will have to think a little more about this tomorrow - must think about some sleep.
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Post by cornishmaid on Jan 15, 2009 12:27:02 GMT -5
Many apologies, I have just re-checked Origins and it does actually say: Trinity House Petitions - Series 2: Honoria Stevens, 42, widow of Thomas of St Ives, Cornwall, 1822. So he did die prior to, or in, 1822. Will have to have another look at this after I've made some "tucker"
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