Elizabeth Rosewall, wife of Henry Major

[gandolf]

The following marriage has been bugging me for a while:

Elizabeth Rosewall married Henry Major 11 Jun 1706 at St. Ives.

A big question in my mind has been just who was the wife of Henry Major?

As I see it, there are two strong candidates:
Elizabeth, chr. 16 Oct 1675, d/o Thomas & Joan (Painter) Rosewall
Elizabeth, born circa 1678, d/o Andrew & Mary (Stevens) Rosewall

While there is a baptism for Thomas' daughter, existance of Andrew's daughter is confirmed by his will in 1680.

A number of researchers have placed Henry Major's wife as the daughter of Thomas & Joan. However this is likely only because she was the only Elizabeth Rosewall whose baptism they could find in St. Ives around the right time.

Howver, I am of the opinion that in fact Henry Major's wife was the daughter of Andrew & Mary Rosewall.

Andrew & Mary Rosewall's older daughter Cheston married Thomas Major (brother of Henry Major). Siblings marrying siblings was not uncommon at the time.

From my research I believe that Elizabeth Rosewall, daughter of James & Elizabeth Rosewall (James being Andrew's brother), married Paul Stevens (alias Gonew) and their daughter Alice Stevens married Francis Major, son of Henry Major and Elizabeth Rosewall. Given the prevelance of cousins marrying in Penwith at the time, it is quite plausible that Francis Major and his wife Alice Stevens could be first cousins.

The Major family were already tied up with the Quick family, as Henry Major's sister Sarah married Matthew Quick. In the mid 1700's there are several more Major/Quick marriages involving the descendants of Henry Major and Elizabeth Rosewall. Although I have yet to follow them all throught, it seems likely that again cousin marriages are coming into play.

Given all these strong ties to families associated closely with the descendants of Andrew Rosewall and no obvious connections with Thomas Rosewall, it is my belief that it is Elizabeth Rosewall daughter of Andrew that married Henry Major in 1707.

What are other peoples thoughts on this?

[myghaelangof]

Hi Gandolf,

Whilst I have no close connection to these families, and no resources at home to utilise except Phillimore, I have given this dilemma some thought.

I would suggest we have 3 Elizabeth's although you may be able to discount one. Searching St Ives baptisms on IGI 1651-1695 we find 4 Rosewall's baptising children. They are Andrew, James, George and Thomas (excluding one baptism to a Tiberius in 1666).

You say there is no known connection between Thomas (md1674) and Andrew (md 1661). I concur but think they probably link up several generations back. From submitted igi entries (trust them at your peril!) Andrew is poss the son of James, and Thomas the son of Arthur, grandson of George. If using naming patterns as a guide I'd suggest therefore that Andrew and James are brothers, as are George and Thomas. Its a shame we have no male children for Andrew?

Andrew married in 1661 and his children are baptised in the period 1661 to 1670.
Thomas married in 1674, with Elizabeth baptised 1675.
James has a daughter Elizabeth baptised in 1682.. the third contender?

You say Andrew names a dgr Elizabeth in his will. Where was she baptised? Did the family move out of St Ives after 1670? The children baptised in St Ives were Cheston, Margery and Mary. Have you got names of any others to investigate?

You suggest that: "From my research I believe that Elizabeth Rosewall, another daughter of Andrew & Mary Rosewall, married Paul Stevens" Whilst not impossible, as prev discussed on this forum re two children with same name, I feel this is unlikely given that 1 Elizabeth married in 1706 and the other 1707. Just seem too close together. Also Andrew and Mary's dgr Cheston married in 1682 at Towednack, 25 years before 1707. Seems a long gap between siblings marriages.

Which brings me back to the 1682 Elizabeth, dgr of James???

For some additional research it may be worth looking at DYER wills. From Phillimore St Ives: 14 May 1690 Morice DYER widow = Mary ROSEWALL widow at Penzance. Was this Mary ROSEWALL widow of Andrew.

I'm getting confused, so back to you...

Mike

[Cornish Terrier]

Gandolf - again will need to look at this in depth a little later and, as with the Sampson Curnow Rosewall query, I will most certainly do so.

Mike - Children of Andrew and Mary ROSEWALL as I have them are as follows (after a preamble .

Andrew ROSEWALL bp. 30th November 1636 St Mewan (most likely scenario), yeoman of Towednack
married 27th July 1661 St Ives
Mary STEVENS (d/o Thomas and Wilmot

This Thomas STEVENS is, I believe, the first known as 'Stevens als Gonew'.

After the death of Andrew ROSEWALL Mary then married Morrish DYER at Penzance 14th May 1690.

NOW for the children of Andrew and Mary ROSEWALL.

Cheston bp. 15th December 1661 St Ives (m. Thomas MAJOR)
Margery bp. 24th January 1664 St Ives (deceased bef. 1670?)
Mary bp. 30th June 1667 St Ives
Margery bp. 27th June 1670 St Ives (m. Michael CURNOW 1689 Towednack)
Wilmot (probably born Towednack c. 1669) - (m. Robert CURNOW 1693 Towednack)
Anne bp. 18th October 1676 Towednack (m. John MATTHEWS 1696 St Ives)
Elizabeth (birth unknown) - (m. Paul STEVENS 1707 St Ives)

I hope that helps a little and I can expand later when I might be a little more organised and not so pressed for time.

I am, however, getting a little confused with the mentions of what seem to be two separate Elizabeth's who were both daughters of (different?) Andrew and Mary ROSEWALLs.

(It may simply be that I have read this too quickly and not completely understood. )

Will try and read it much more carefully before my next response.

I would also like some background on the links between Henry and Sarah MAJOR as I have not yet pursued this part of the family.

Mike (again) - I believe Andrew and James ROSEWALL, as you have I think suggested, were brothers although I do not yet know of a baptism record being found for James.

There is, however, the Will of their father.

James (father of Andrew and James) married Elizabeth (unknown) sometime before 1635 and was buried at Towednack in 1680 leaving the referred to Will.

Son James also married someone named Elizabeth and had seven children that I am aware of - Andrew, James, Elizabeth, Thomas, Paul, Mary and Mary.

And there was also a sister, Mary, who married Hugh ROSEMENEWAS at St Ives in 1676.

Before I get myself too confused (and confuse you even further) I will conclude this note.

I will be trying to look more at this in the coming days and will then be able to hopefully add more.

CT

[gandolf]

Mike, CT, apologies for confusing you - on reading your note I realised that I had also confused myself.

Firstly, what I meant to say (and have now fixed my previous post to prevent further confusion) was:

From my research I believe that Elizabeth Rosewall, daughter of James & Elizabeth Rosewall (James being Andrew's brother), married Paul Stevens (alias Gonew) and their daughter Alice Stevens married Francis Major, son of Henry Major and Elizabeth Rosewall. Given the prevelance of cousins marrying in Penwith at the time, it is quite plausible that Francis Major and his wife Alice Stevens could be first cousins

So while there are three possible contenders:
Elizabeth Rosewall baptised 1675, daughter of Thomas
Elizabeth Rosewall born circa 1678, daughter of Andrew
Elizabeth Rosewall baptised 1682, daughter of Thomas

As mentioned above I believe that the most likely wife of Paul Stevens (alias Gonew) is the daughter of Thomas, leaving the other two in the picture as the wife Henry Major.

Just the usual frustration with three lasses of the same name (most likely all cousins at some level!) all born in a seven year period and two of them marrying within a couple of years of each other (and what happened to the third??) ;D

As to your thoughts about the possible relationships of the four Rosewall men baptising children, while I haven't looked particularly closely at Thomas or George, I agree that given their location and the fact they are apparently not brothers to Andrew, then Thomas & George may well be brothers. I hadn't looked into their possible parentage given that at the time they did not seem to be relevant.

James Rosewall is definately a brother to Andrew, and both are sons of James Rosewall who died 1680.

James Rosewall the elder's will dated 9 Nov 1680 (as recorded on Zenobia's website):
son: James Rosewall 30 shillings.
daughter: Mary wife of Hugh Rosewall* 30 shillings
daughter-in-law: Mary Rosewall, widdow 20 shillings
each grandchild: 1 shilling apiece
brother: Waerne Rosewall 5 shillings
poor of Towednack: 5 shillings
wife: Elizabeth all the rest & executor
Signed: James Rosewall
witnesses: James Dearses?, Samson Thomas, Mary Semmons, William Quick

*NOTE: incorrect, should read as the wife of Hugh Rosemenewas

Andrew Rosewall's will of 9 Oct 1680 (as recorded on Zenobia's website):
6 daughters: Cheston, Mary, Margery, Wellmott, Ann & Elizabeth £20 each
sister: Mary wife of Hugh Rosemenewes £20 and her husband shall have nothing to do with it, but it shall be invested for the good of my sister and her son as Ffrancis Arundel of Trengwanton, Gent, shall see fit. The last named person being my very good friend.
wife: Mary the main profit of the land I hold in Uny Lelant, St. Just & Towednack
brother: James Roswall my wearing apparel
his 2 children (not named) 12 d. apiece
father (not named) 12 d.
godchildren: 12 d. apiece
Robert Couch, gent. for making my will 10 sh.
wife Mary all the rest & executrix
Signed Andrew "A R" Roswall
witnesses: Ffrancis Arundell Jun., Rob. Couchh


That Andrew was James the elder's son is confirmed via the fact that James names his daughter Mary as the wife of Hugh Rosemenewes and Andrew names his sister Mary as Hugh's wife. Secondry confirmation in that James the elder names his daughter-in-law Mary Rosewall as a beneficiary - this is Andrew's wife given that Andrew died only a couple of weeks earlier.

James Rosewall the elder also therefore confirms James Rosewall the younger as Andrew's brother by naming him in his will.

Andrew's first five daughters were baptised in the period 1661 to 1676. As to the baptism of the last named daughter, Elizabeth, none has been found. Given her position in the list of Andrew's children she is presumed to be the last born (given the other five are in birth order), therefore most likely around 1678 since her older sister was christened 1676 and her father died in 1680.

The details I have for Andrew's first five children are:
CHESTON ROSEWALL, Baptism: 24 Jan 1664/65, St. Ives
MARGERY ROSEWALL Baptism: 24 Jan 1664/65, St. Ives
MARY ROSEWALL Baptism: 30 Jan 1667/68, St. Ives, Burial: 19 Mar 1746/47, Towednack
MARGERY ROSEWALL, Baptism: 27 Jun 1670,, St. Ives
WILMOT ROSEWALL, Baptism: 27 Jun 1670, St. Ives
ANN ROSEWALL Baptism: 18 Oct 1676, Towednack
ELIZABETH ROSEWALL, b. Abt. 1678, Towednack

I don't believe that the family ever actually moved (at least prior to Andrew's death). They most likely lived on or near Rosewall Hill, which although within the borders of Towednack parish is actually as close or perhaps even closer to St. Ives than Towednack. This is the most likely reason for the baptisms appearing in both parishes.

The Mary Rosewall that married Morice Dyer in 1690 is indeed Andrew Rosewall's widow.

[gandolf]

CT, looks like you were posting while I was still composing ;D

Interestingly, you have Elizabeth, daughter of Andrew as the wife of Paul Stevens (alias Gonew), whereas I had placed Paul's wife as the daughter of Andrew's brother James.

So it would seem that we may be sitting on the opposite sides of the same dilema

Interested to hear your reasons for the placement of Paul Steven's wife as the daughter of Andrew.

[Cornish Terrier]

Interested to hear your reasons for the placement of Paul Steven's wife as the daughter of Andrew.

Just looking at this while I prepare tucker and make a final decision on a movie.

My last database update on this was April 1999 (marriage to Paul STEVENS) with other updates on the family of Andrew and Mary ranging from about April 1999 through into the early part of 2000.

I am not certain but it appears this was a time I was looking at the STEVENS family.

What is interesting is that the Paul STEVENS who married Elizabeth ROSEWALL was the son of Francis STEVENS and Alice COGA.

Francis was a brother to Mary STEVENS wife of Andrew ROSEWALL.

Paul and Elizabeth had three sons (Paul, Francis (d. young) and Francis) and five daughters being Elizabeth, Eleanor, Alice, Wilmot and Mary.

Daughter Alice married a Francis MAJOR and I must say that I have so far done little work on this part of the MAJOR family so do not currently have any useful information on them recorded in my database.

But I think there is sufficient circumstantial data there to suggest that it was the daughter of Andrew and Mary ROSEWALL who married Paul STEVENS als GONEW. (Inconclusive I know. )

But I will try and look more deeply into this problem as soon as I can.

CT

[Cornish Terrier]

MARGERY ROSEWALL, Baptism: 27 Jun 1670,, St. Ives
WILMOT ROSEWALL, Baptism: 27 Jun 1670, St. Ives

Gandolf - where did you find the baptism of Wilmot?

I have never found it and have just checked IGI again and it does not appear there.

Margery's baptism is certainly recorded in IGI.

And another:-

MARY ROSEWALL Baptism: 30 Jan 1667/68, St. Ives, Burial: 19 Mar 1746/47, Towednack

What is your source for the burial of Mary at Towednack?
I have a copy of the Hoblyn Transcript and there is no mention of this event.

However, on 19th March 1747 there is the burial of Mary TYACK, widow.

No sign of Mary ROSEWALL at all.

BUT - should the year be 1747/48 rather than 1746/47 could it be that there is a suggestion that Mary TYACK, widow of Charles, was actually Mary ROSEWALL daughter of Andrew??

I have never found a marriage for Charles and Mary TYACK and have just checked IGI and also the OPC site with a nil result.

Some clarification of these details would be most appreciated.

CT

[cornishmaid]

I cannot find the baptism of Wilmot Rosewall, or the burial of Mary Rosewall in 1746/47 either .

I have found a Charles Tyack marrying a Mary Cock in Lelant on 12 August 1721, but she was a widow and was "of Gwithian". There is a marriage in Gwithian of a James Cock to a Mary Richards on 21 July 1705, which might be the same woman.

CT, Mary "Tyack's" burial in Towednack is indeed listed by the FFHS as occurring in 1747/48 rather than 1746/47

[gandolf]

Whoops, perhaps I should stop composing notes late at night - it seems that errors are just too easy when you are not fresh. Or perhaps I should blame it on being on holidays and therefore being in holiday mode?

Glad someone out there is actually awake.

Firstly, with Mary Rosewall's death, it was not her death that I meant to include. But to clear up the confusion, I have her dying as Mary Tyack. I just double checked and the date should actually be 1747/48 not 1746/47 as I put in my earlier post.

I have Andrew's daughter Mary Rosewall as the wife of Charles Tyack, as per discussions we had earlier this year on the St. Ives board [see Rosewall family (and Tyack & Arundell connections)] and also on the Hampton board [see Dwens Hampton Tyack's children]

And like both CT and Cornishmaid, I have no actual marriage record for Mary Rosewall to Charles Tyack other than it must have been around 1682 or 1863.

The death date I had meant to include was not Mary's but that of the first Margery Rosewall as being sometime before 1670, given that her sister of the same name was baptised that year.

As for Wilmot Rosewall, when I was typing the note last night I looked at the baptism date and thought it odd that it was the same as sister Margery.

I have just gone back to where I made my original notes and realised what happened. When I first jotted down the family it was without the second Margery, and with no birth or christening date for Wilmot. When I found the second Margery I squeezed her in above Wilmot in my notes.

It turns out that when I was transcribing my notes into my database, I then misread the notes and incorrectly assigned Margery's christening to Wilmot also and didn't pick it up at the time.

So no, I do not actually have a baptism for Wilmot either.

Again apologies for the confusion.

[Cornish Terrier]

Thankyou Cornishmaid for that information.

The Mary TYACK buried at Towednack is, from her Will, the widow of Charles TYACK (who I will call the elder).

The younger Charles was son of Charles and Mary and is the man who married the widowed Mary COCK.

The marriage you have provided might very well be the right one given there was a James COCK buried at Gwithian 18th December 1715.

I so far know of only one child of Charles (younger) and Mary and that as son John baptised at St Ives in 1727.

If it was Mary RICHARDS who married Charles TYACK as a widow then it is obvious she was older than him by probably 8-10 years minimum.

She could have been born as early as about 1679/80 and married James COCK when about 26 and that would still leave her at about 47 or 48 when young John was born.

Interesting - but I think we do have a thread for TYACK so might need to pursue some of this in that forum a little later.

[gandolf]

CT, agree re dealing with the Tyacks later. They are definately on my list (once I get done with the Rosewall's) as Charles (the elder) and Mary (nee Rosewall) Tyack are my umpteenth great grandparents.

[Cornish Terrier]

Gandolf - no problem at all and I thought the reason might be something like that.

Nothing I have not done at some stage I can tell you.

no actual marriage record for Mary Rosewall to Charles Tyack other than it must have been around 1682 or 1863

Are you sure? ;D

I do now recall the discussion about the possibility of Mary being the wife of Charles TYACK.

But looking at things again I am thinking that we may have been on the wrong track.

Mary ROSEWALL was baptised 30th January 1667 (** see note below **) yet the first known child of Charles and Mary TYACK was born at Lelant November 1683 and the second baptised at Lelant 31st October 1684.

** Note** - as this is from IGI Batch P014781 I would be almost certain that the baptism was actually 30th January 1666 as entries in this particular Batch No. I have found to be notorious for having been 'Gregorianised' prior to publication.

So if we take the earlier date (i.e. 1666/7) then Mary would have been only just 16 (almost 17) when daughter Dewens was born.

Hmmm - maybe not really so bad (certainly possible) given she was probably born not earlier than 1660.

Charles TYACK was 'not yet 21' when his father wrote his Will in December 1668 so he had to have been born sometime after 1647.

And, of course, Charles and Mary did name their third child (second son) Andrew and then used that name again immediately after that son died in 1708.

Okay - I will stick with that one until/unless .................

And I think we might say it is quite likely that Wilmot ROSEWALL and younger sister Elizabeth were baptised at Towednack which is also possibly where the elder Margery was buried.

Running out of puff now so will consider it more tomorrow.

[gandolf]

I am beginning to think that the Rosewall's, Stevens's and Major's are going to end up being as big a headache as the Quick's have been.

Andrew ROSEWALL bp. 30th November 1636 St Mewan (most likely scenario), yeoman of Towednack
married 27th July 1661 St Ives
Mary STEVENS (d/o Thomas and Wilmot

This Thomas STEVENS is, I believe, the first known as 'Stevens als Gonew'.

CT, what was your source for the parents of Mary Stevens? I have not been able to find any sources for her birth or baptism?

What is interesting is that the Paul STEVENS who married Elizabeth ROSEWALL was the son of Francis STEVENS and Alice COGA.

Francis was a brother to Mary STEVENS wife of Andrew ROSEWALL.

Similarly what was the source for making Francis a sister to Mary and son of Thomas & Wilmot Stevens?

I am guessing that both of the above were based on the will of Thomas Stevens, and that presumably that was also where you have him recorded as Thomas Stevens als Gonew?

From a quick look at the IGI, I can see three men having families in St. Ives in the mid 17th century who are presumably all children of Thomas & Wilmot Stevens als Gonew.

There also seems to be at least two other Stevens having families at the time, that would seem to be of a different family (although perhaps cousins?), an Alexander Stevens and what seems to be another Francis Stevens.

So I tentatively have the family of Thomas & Wilmot Stevens als Gonew as follows (all events at St. Ives):

Thomas Stevens als Gonew (died 1689) married Wilmot ?? (died 1664) and had at least the following children:
Thomas Stevens als Gonew (born before 1636)
Mary Stevens (born circa 1640)
John Stevens als Gonew (born before 1647)
Francis Stevens als Gonew (born before 1647)

----------
Thomas Stevens als Gonew (b before 1636, died 1673) married around 1653 to Cicely ?? (died 1687) & had the following children:
Elizabeth Stevens als Gonew, chr. 31 Mar 1654
Wilmot Stevens als Gonew, chr. 19 Jan 1657/58, died 1658
Grace Stevens als Gonew, chr. 12 Nov 1659
Mary Stevnes, chr. 11 Apr 1664, died 22 Feb 1679/80
Alice Gonow, chr. 30 Jul 1671
Katherin Stevens als Gonew, chr. 16 Jun 1667
----------
Mary Stephens of course married Andrew Rosewall.
----------
John Stephens appears to have married around 1663 or 1664 and have the following children:
Thomas Stephens or Gonew, chr. 27 Mar 1664
James Stephens or Goneew, chr. 3 Nov 1667
Ann Stephens or Gonew, chr. 4 Dec 1670
John Gonew, chr. 8 Mar 1673 (1672/73 or 1673/74 ?)
Jaquett Gonew, chr. 25 Feb 1676 (1675/76 or 1676/67 ?)
Mathew Stevens, chr. 24 Nov 1678
David Gonew, chr. 11 Dec 1681
Benjamin Goneau, chr. 2 Nov 1684
----------
Francis Stevens als Gonew (born before 1647, died 1718) married 29 Jul 1665 to Alice Coga (Cogar?) (died 1699) and tentatively had the following children:
William Stevens als Gonew, chr. 13 Oct 1667, died 1682
Francis Steevens, chr. 10 Nov 1678
John Stevens als Gonew, chr. 5 Sep 1669
Francis Steevens, chr. 1 Apr 1680
Alice Steves als Gonew, chr. 26 Mar 1671
Paul Gonew, chr. 25 Jan 1674 (1673/74 or 1674/75 ?)
Thomas Steevens, chr. 17 Apr 1677

Note: I haven't yet followed the families into the next geneation in any detail

[gandolf]

As to marriages at St. Ives, there are the following that clearly belong to the Stevens family:

Grace Stevens als Gonew m. 29 Oct 1690 Richard Cockyn, widower.
(this is probably the Grace bap 1659, dau of Thomas)

Catherine Stevens als Gonew m. 28 Apr 1696 Richard Major
(this is probably the Katherin bap 1667, dau of Thomas)

Thomas Stevens als Gonew m. 18 Nov 1699 Elizabeth Bennetts
(This could be either the son of Thomas or Francis)

John Stevens als Gonew m. 25 Nov 1702 Mary Oates
(this could be the son of either John or Francis)

Paul Stephens als Gonew m. 11 Nov 1707 Elizabeth Rosewall
(this is the Paul bap 1674, son of Francis)

Francis Stephens als Gonew m. 26 Nov 1709 Ann Stephens als Gonew
(This is probably the Francis bap. 1680, son of Francis. His wife may be the Ann bap. 1670, dau of John - a first cousin?)

David Stevens als Gonew m. 4 Mar 1711 Mary Oats
(this is probably the David bap 1680, son of John)

James Stephens als Gonew m. 31 Jan 1712 (1711/12 or 1712/13 ?) Elizabeth Coggar
(This is probably the James, bap. 1667, son of John)

----------

The following marriage looks like it should probably belong, but not sure where at this point

Welmot Stevens m 20 Jan 1701 (1700/01 or 1701/02 ?) James Rowe.

-----

Bearing in mind that Mary (nee Stevens) Rosewall married 2ndly to Morice Dyer, the following marriages are also interesting.

John Stephens (Jnr) m. 11 Sep 1688 Susanna Dyer
(Not sure who John is, but Susanna is almost certainly the daughter of Morice Dyer by his first wife Margery)

John Stevens m. 1 Aug 1670 Elizabeth Dyer
(Not sure who John is. Although I can't find a baptism for her, given that Morice Dyer is the only person of that surname in St. Ives around the 1650's he is most likely her father)

[gandolf]

Regarding Mary Rosewall marrying Charles Tyack, a recap of my thoughts from a few months ago..

Although at first glance Mary Rosewall, daughter of Andrew and Mary seems a bit young to be the wife of Charles Tyack, however I believe it does actually fit. Charles Tyack and his wife Mary must have married around 1682 or early 1683 (first child christened late 1683). At this time Mary Rosewall would have been around 15-16 years of age assuming she was christened as an infant. Somewhat young based on what seems to be the average for Cornish lasses, but not impossibly young. Given a know childbearing range for Charles Tyacks wife Mary of about 26 years (1683 – 1708), she couldn’t have been any more than about 20 or so when she started, so a couple of years earlier at age 17 would match quite nicely.

I can’t find any evidence that Mary Rosewall died as a child (not conclusive in itself I know), and Charles Tyack’s wife Mary died 1746, which would make her about 77-78 assuming that she was indeed Mary Rosewall. A good age for that period and consistent with Mary Tyack being one and the same as Mary Rosewall. The appearance of the names Andrew and Wilmot/Wellmet as children of Charles and Mary Tyack also supports the fact that Charle Tyack’s wife was Mary Rosewall.