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Post by terrywhite on Nov 30, 2008 11:52:50 GMT -5
The earliest of the 15 Pauls in my tree (Nathaniel) was bapt. 7 Feb 1686 at Paul. Does the family originate from the village, or was the village named after the family, or neither?
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Post by Cornish Terrier on Dec 5, 2008 3:07:28 GMT -5
Sorry for the dealy in responding - but the short answer is 'I don't know'! From 'A Handbook of Cornish Surnames - G. Pawley White' PAWLEY, PAWLE, PAULLE - Cornish form of Paul. Does not help at all really. It is possible the name was taken from the village but then the name 'Paul' goes back to pre-Biblical days so ...... Perhaps a bit of a look at the origins of the village of Paul might be interesting. However - please tell us some more about your PAUL families as a few of us have the name involved with some part of our research and it will be interesting to compare notes and help each other. CT
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Post by Mal on Jan 18, 2009 9:33:29 GMT -5
I have a William Paul who marries Patience Gwavas 15h Jan 1680, both from Paul. William Paul appears to be the son of William Paul and Anne, married 1632 and that as far as I can go. Having the surname Paul and being from the Parish of Paul is a real bugger to look up!!! The Parish of Saint Paul takes its name from Paulinus Aurelianus, or Pol Aurelyn, or Paul Aurelian and was founded about 490, within living memory of the end of Roman rule in Britain. It is possible that the family came from the village and took the name Saint Paul/Paul from the village, as is the case with many other Cornish tre-, pol-, pen-, ros-, surnames.
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Post by tonymitch on Jan 18, 2009 15:49:30 GMT -5
As I understand it, Paul is the name assumed from the Parish Church which I believe is dedicated to St Pol - de - Leon.
Watch out though, that could be the 'Anglicised' name and it original Cornish name could be something quite different. For example, close to where I live is the town of Mold the English name from the Old French 'mont hault' = high hill. (From a mot and bailiey castle). Its ancient Welsh(celtic) name is Yr Wyddgrug, which I am told means Burial Mound. It should be noted that in 1800 and something a golden cape was discovered close to what was eventually found to be a Bronze Age burial mound. Quite a spooky story is involved if anyone is interestd, which I think shows the authenticity of aural history and folk lore.
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Post by Mal on Jan 19, 2009 7:10:25 GMT -5
Tony- You are right, St Pol de Leon and Paul Aurelian are one and the same! In Cornish "pol" could mean small "pool" or harbour as in "Polkerris" etc. Please go on with the spooky story, sounds interesting.....
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Post by Cornish Terrier on Jan 19, 2009 7:42:23 GMT -5
I would also like to hear that 'spooky story' although I am not a bit ghoulish myself.
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Post by tonymitch on Jan 19, 2009 20:23:15 GMT -5
Ok....On the road between the two North Wales towns of Mold and Wrexham is a small hill known since time began as Bryn - yr - Ellyllon or Goblin's Hill. This place was said to be haunted by the spirit of a giant wielding an axe and clad in a suit of golden armour. No man who cared for his sanity would venture past this hill after dark. Horses bolted, carts tipped over and even the mice scurried away as soon as the sun sank behind the glowering presence of the high wooded slopes of Foel Fenlli.
One day it was decide to widen the road and the council set strong men to work with pick and shovel. The County Surveyor po-pooed the idea of a ghost. But one man as he sank his spade into the side of this hill let out a blood curdling scream, dropped his spade and ran as far as the River Alyn. He had and uncovered gold.....a golden cape...and the skeleton of a man.
The cape has been restored and is for all to see in the British Museum....It is known by the very original and romantic name of..."The Mold Cape".
Now...no more poetic licence...fact! The area was supposedly haunted and had the Welsh name of Goblin's Hill. This can be verified be the O.S. Map. The local legend was that there was a giant who haunted the spot and he carried with him golden armour. Lo and behold in 1800 and something, as they were widening the road they found a skeleton and the Golden Cermonial Cape. The legend MUST have come down from the Bronze Age following the burial of the high ranking person in the mound. If it wasn't for the fact of the mound being named Goblin's Hill, I would say,"Oh yes" and suggested that my informant keep taking the medication...but!!
If you don't believe me....Google "The Mold Cape"
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Post by Cornish Terrier on Jan 20, 2009 8:52:21 GMT -5
Thankyou for sharing - maybe we could do with a little more of this. There are a few terms such as 'where there is smoke there is fire' and I think it quite likely that a lot of these old stories have some basis in fact. The story of Mathy TREWHELLA and the Mermaid of Zennor is one. Although this legend is supposedly more than 500 years old there is a Matthew Trewhella who appeared in the 1641 Protestation Return at Towednack. He was, most probably, the son of James TREWHELA, Churchwarden of Towednack. There is no further record of this Matthew (keeping in mind the paucity of records for Towednack at the time) and he appears to have been the first of that particular Christian name in the family. The name does however continue to this day. Could it be that Matthew disappeared under (for the time) mysterious circumstances and this legend grew around his dsappearance? We may never know - however there is one account of the story which suggests that Matthew was the son of the 'local Squire' and this more or less fits with said 'squire' being James TREWHELA the Churchwarden. Anyone with any such 'myths, legends and stories' relating to particular family names please post here for some discussion, escapism or downright light-hearted entertainment!
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Post by Mal on Jan 20, 2009 17:05:19 GMT -5
Not to mention the howling lays and ghost lights of the Vingoes to be heard at Trevilley when a member of the family dies....! A bit like the Irish banshee of old. I must say a strange thing happened to me when I was in Newlyn... I was poking around doing a bit of research when a man came up to me, an old man, who spoke to me as if he knew me, he asked me how my dad was and my granddad etc etc, just like he were someone in my family. I could hardly get a word in edge-ways and seeing as he was elderly and a few shillings short I felt it too unkind to say "I have no idea who you are?", At least he was happy. Anyway, I bade him farewell as I had to be about my business and on my way and after the usual protracted "you take care now, 'ansum". I went on my way. When I looked round after about 10 yards, near the little square in the old town of Newlyn... no one there. Other people but not him. To this day I do not know who that man might be, how he would have "known" me and so on. Perhaps he slipped into a shop, but I just got that "eerie " feeling that evening on my way home. My Gran, a true West Country woman with origins on Exmoor and superstitions to match was quite frank, and said it was an old relative coming to say hello... from a long time ago perhaps.
Old places, old memories... who knows? Wouldn't be the first time I heard of this in Cornwall.
Another funny thing happened last year, I was fishing in a spot I hadn't fished at for years sine my dear old Granddad passed away. It was a real dead loss when I muttered under my breath, "Oh come on Granddad send us a couple o' mackerel, will you?", Within two minutes I had caught two. The next day I went back and said " Give us another one for Gran", Bob's your uncle, another one- bam float under and a handsome one he was too. The reason was I was staying with my Gran and my girlfriend had come too, I needed THREE fish not two. That night we all had the best fresh mackerel for years. After that I didn't catch a thing!
Anyone else got a story or anecdote to share?
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Post by tonymitch on Jan 21, 2009 6:00:21 GMT -5
Ok you lot......I have had a similar experience to you Malcolm. I wrote it up for the CFHS magazine and still have a copy on my computer. It's too large to put on the board but if anyone would like a copy, please contact me on the personal messages bit with your address and I'll send you a copy.
Everything in the article happened....no bovine manure! Deja-Vu.....'happenchance' meetings.....dumb animals communicating with me. It's also so full of 'coincidences' as to be almost unbelievable, but it definately absolutely happened. Not 'spookey' frightening, but like Malcolm's experience, warming and comforting.
Incidentally, having spent 30+ years of my life working in psychiatry I don't believe in ghosts !!!!
Tony M
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Post by Mal on Jan 21, 2009 7:12:51 GMT -5
Go on Tony, I'll have a copy, send it to my profile email address please.....
I must admit, I don't believe most ghost stories but I do believe in ghosts.
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Post by Cornish Terrier on Jan 21, 2009 21:27:23 GMT -5
I would also appreciate a copy Tony. As with Malcolm - as an attachment via email is probably the easiest.
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Post by terrywhite on Nov 22, 2009 12:27:08 GMT -5
However - please tell us some more about your PAUL families as a few of us have the name involved with some part of our research and it will be interesting to compare notes and help each other. CT Less than a year later (profound apologies) I reply. My Cornish link is gt-grandma Emily Collins. Her mother was a Lanyon. HER mother's mother's parents were Oliver Vincent (whose mother was Margaret PAUL), and Catherine Paul (Daughter of Abel and Elizabeth (Williams)). Margaret's parents were Nathaniel and Joan (Bennets), and Abel's were Richard and Patience (Spargo). Richard's father was also Richard. Many thanks.
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Post by Cornish Terrier on Nov 23, 2009 1:56:03 GMT -5
Glad to have you back. From what I read of this the links would appear to be as follows:- 26th August 1735 St Allen Oliver Vincent married Margaret Paul 23rd July 1781 Gwennap Oliver Vincent of St Allen married Catherine Paul 17th January 1820 St Allen Oliver Vincent married Elizabeth Lanyon I am a little confused beyond that at the moment regarding the link down to Emily Collins. CT
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Post by terrywhite on Nov 28, 2009 7:45:34 GMT -5
Glad to have you back. From what I read of this the links would appear to be as follows:- 26th August 1735 St Allen Oliver Vincent married Margaret Paul 23rd July 1781 Gwennap Oliver Vincent of St Allen married Catherine Paul 17th January 1820 St Allen Oliver Vincent married Elizabeth Lanyon I am a little confused beyond that at the moment regarding the link down to Emily Collins. CT 23rd July 1781 Gwennap Oliver Vincent of St Allen married Catherine Paul Their son Oliver did indeed marry Elizabeth Lanyon, but their daughter Elizabeth Vincent married Richard Lanyon, Elizabeth's brother. Elizabeth and Richard's daughter, Elizabeth, married her father's cousin, Henry Lanyon, and Mary Searle Lanyon (Emily Collins' mother) was one of their daughters. The full story is as follows: Great-great-great-great-grandma Elizabeth VINCENT (A) married Richard LANYON (α). Elizabeth's brother, Oliver VINCENT (B) married Richard's sister, Elizabeth (β). Elizabeth and Oliver (A/B)'s sister, Peggy VINCENT (C) married Richard and Elizabeth (α/β)'s first cousin, John LANYON (μ). Elizabeth, Oliver and Peggy's brother William (D) married Elizabeth Gill (ό), Richard and Elizabeth (α/β)'s sister Mary(π)’s daughter. Elizabeth (ό)’s sister Mary married Simon Lanyon, son of John and Peggy. Henry (γ), brother of Richard and Elizabeth (α/β), married his cousin Isabella (ν), sister of John (μ) and his brother, Henry (ρ). This Henry (ρ) married Richard and Elizabeth (α/A)'s daughter, Elizabeth (ξ). Elizabeth (ξ)’s brother Richard married Catherine, daughter of Simon, the brother of Richard (α). So, from the point of view of this last Elizabeth (ξ), her husband was brother-in-law to both her aunt Peggy and her uncle Henry, her uncle Oliver was also her uncle-by-marriage, and brother-in-law to his sister, her aunt Peggy was her sister-in-law, her uncle William was married to her cousin Elizabeth, who was also her brother-in-law’s sister-in-law, her brother-in-law John was brother-in-law to both uncle Henry and aunt Isabella, her great-uncle was her father-in-law and also her aunt Peggy's father-in-law, her uncle Henry was her brother-in law, her aunt Isabella was her sister-in-law as well as her aunt’s sister-in-law and her brother-in-law’s sister-in-law, her aunt was her cousin’s mother-in-law, her uncle was her cousin’s brother-in-law, her sister-in-law was her cousin, and I'm sixth cousin, once removed, to myself.
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