I should have added Crowan to clarity the locations re: prior post re: the Semmons/Ward children.
The family servant theme also relates to the 1817 Christian Berriman, as she can be found in the Vellenoweth (indexed as "Vallersweth" on Ancestry) household in 1841 in Gwinear prior to marrying William - son of Constance.
It's also occurred to me to wonder if there is a family connection between Clarinda's great-grandmother, Cordelia Sampson, and her (Clarinda's) grandmother, Christian Sampson.
Post by Cornish Terrier on Jan 3, 2018 8:03:37 GMT -5
HI Zib - I've started having a closer look at the Ward family of Crowan/Gwinear/Phillack largely due to a connection with the 1839 Will of Jane Carnsew of Crowan. She appears to have been Jenifer Williams who married Philip Carnsew at Crowan in 1793 with Philip having been a son of Nicholas Carnsew and Elizabeth Trewheela. Jenifer Williams sister Agnes married Henry Watters at Crowan in 1789 so I have also been working on the Watters/Waters/Walters families.
There are also Pearce, Rodda and Eustis connections mention in this Will along with a bequest to Henry son of Henry Ward (married Ann Marks 1802 Crowan).
And the Ward family has numerous Harvey connections which you no doubt are aware of.
Post by Cornish Terrier on Jan 5, 2018 6:41:38 GMT -5
Brother William worked: In 1841 he was with his grandmother, Jennifer Taylor Semmons (farmer while husband was away from home as a mine agent)at Burnt Downs as a young family servant. In 1851, he lived with his paternal grandparents John and Ann (Eddy) Ward at Leedstown and was a mine carpenter. He married a cousin (Ward side) Jenifer/Jane Harvey May 7 1853. Jenifer was underage. I have not been able to find them for sure after that.
I have not found William Semmens Ward as yet but I can now tell you that wife Jenifer was buried at Crowan 16th May 1859 at the age of 26. Her daughter Prudence Ellen Ward was baptized the same day (16th May) and buried at Crowan 12 days later on May 28th.
There were two other children from this marriage - Jane Semmens Ward bp. 21st October 1855 and Ann bp. 25th December 1857 and buried 16th March 1858 at Crowan. In 1861 Jane Ward was with her grandmother Jenifer Harvey (nee Ward) at Leedstown but so far there is no sign of her father.
Post by Cornish Terrier on Jan 5, 2018 16:55:05 GMT -5
I hadn't connected Ann to this family as her mother was listed as Ann also.
I had the same problem .... until I discovered that there was no marriage for a William Ward to Ann anywhere that could possibly fit. In fact the only marriage connected with the Crowan area Wards involving William and Ann was that of William Ward and Ann Bawden at Crowan in 1824 but William died in 1832 and Ann remarried to a Samuel Harvey two years later at Gwinear. Having sorted that out I then put two and two together and concluded that this was another case of errant recording on the part of the Vicar. I have another Ward problem that I suspect will be a result of a similar error but I need to to a little more work on that one. I also have to start looking at all the Harvey's involved with these Wards and see if I can work out where they properly belong!
Post by Cornish Terrier on Jan 6, 2018 4:27:31 GMT -5
I don't actually have any connection to the Wards except via a very long round-a-bout route to Martha Trewhela via the Carnsew marriage although there may be a similar type link via the Harveys to Ann Trewhela. But as the name came up via another route that I was 'briefly' looking at and because I found a blatant, although understandable, error in some online family trees I decided to pursue it all and try to get an accurate picture. Having said all of that I am still working on the burials and female marriages so have not identified anyone of particular interest in more recent times. It is probably the origins of the Crowan/Gwinear area Wards that is of most interest given I cannot find a logical baptism for Thomas Ward who married Margaret Perkin at Camborne in 1742. It was this family who moved to Crowan sometime between 1753 and 1756.
I probably need to think about moving the more recent posts in this thread to a new thread over at Crowan given we are now talking about Ward/Watters/Harvey/Carnsew families. I will put some thought into it and perhaps do so in the next few days.
I have no further to go with the Ward family than you have. Still trying to figure out how I might connect to the Berrimans. Other than young Henry son of Henry Ward and Ann Marks possibly being the grandson of Thomas Ward and Jane Eustice, I might be done on the Ward side.
Post by Cornish Terrier on Jan 7, 2018 13:47:17 GMT -5
As far as I have been able to tell Henry Ward, 1804 Crowan son of Henry Ward and Ann Marks, is indeed the grandson of Thomas and Jane. By process of elimination I have determined that he was almost certainly the Henry Ward who married Mary Harvey at Crowan 5th November 1826. All other Henry Wards seem to be taken care of and none of them were blacksmiths so with no know occupation it again points to 1804 Henry. Mary Ward nee Harvey appears to be the Mary Ward of Gwinear age 25 buried at Gwinear 21st December 1829. I have not identified her as yet but perhaps you might be able to help? Although there appears to be no baptism, unless the vicar botched up the names good and proper!!, but there appears to have been one daughter from the marriage - Margaret Ward born Gwinear about 1826. She married John Heather at Gwinear 18th January 1845 and named her father as 'Henry Ward, blacksmith'. Margaret had been living at Penhale Moor, Gwinear, with Jacob and Ann Kneebone (nee Ward) so I suspect Henry may have been a cousin or nephew of Ann who was baptized at St Erth 21st January 1781 illegitimate daughter of Anne Ward with Joseph Blight the putative father. Anne's mother Anne I believe was the 1753 Camborne daughter of Thomas Ward and Margaret Perkin who were the parents of the Thomas Ward who married Jane Eustice.
I have now pretty much identified all Wards descended from this couple for whom records appear in the OPC database with the exception of nine burials between 1785 and 1827 that I am still working on.
Post by Cornish Terrier on Jan 8, 2018 9:30:16 GMT -5
Could be .... but between 1802 and 1804, excluding the first Mary to James and Margaret, I count five possibilities at Gwinear 1802/3 and one at Crowan 1804. If her age at burial is accurate then probably discount the first two at Gwinear in 1802 which still leaves four. I might have to investigate the Harvey Wills or see if I can eliminate any of the other possibilities some other way. But given it appears Henry and Mary named a daughter Margaret it may help narrow the options.
Dredging up an old thread. Particularly the John BERRIMAN who married Martha CURNOW 26 APR 1818 (my 4x great grandmother). I had presumed that John BERRIMAN was the son of James BERRIMAN and Christian SAMPSON baptised 19 MAR 1799. This simply based on Christian also being the name of John & Martha's daughter baptised 15 NOV 1818. Also based on a James BERRIMAN being a witness at the marriage of John & Martha. I speculated without researching in detail that it could be James BERRIMAN the father or James BERRIMAN the brother. James & Christian had a son James and a son John which ties this all together.
I noticed late in this thread that CT was thinking this might be not the correct John BERRIMAN. One of my cousins on Ancestry has John as the son of Andrew & Mary baptised 08 JAN 1797. However I find so many errors on her tree that I cannot trust much. I asked her what her reasoning was but she couldn't supply a reasoned response.
Post by Cornish Terrier on Jul 15, 2021 0:06:32 GMT -5
My last database updates on this family were back in 2014 but I don't know if those updates came before or after the comments in question. However, I have just checked the marriage records for James Berriman and Christian Sampson, John Berriman and Martha Curnow and also James Berriman and Clarinda Nicholas - i.e. the father and the two sons named in this query.
We are lucky that these marriages all took place at St Ives and, in the case of the younger James, at Ludgvan as images of the original registers for both Parishes are available on FamilySearch. What is less fortunate is that neither James Berriman senior nor son John could sign their own name. In John's case his 'mark' was a simple 'cross' which was almost identical to the 'mark' used by Martha Curnow - the only difference being that the cross-stroke used by John had a slight wave to it whilst that used by Martha was straight.
Where we are fortunate is that the elder James Berriman used am ore unique 'mark' in the form of a single downstroke with three short cross-strokes at top, centre and bottom.
I should point out that James Berriman was not the first or only Cornishman to use a similar type of 'mark' but certainly in this case I think it is rather helpful.
Using signiatures/marks to identify the parties involved in these marriages I can conclude with reasonable certainty and to my own satisfaction that the witness to the marriage of John Berriman and Martha Curnow was James Berriman, the father of the groom and husband of Christian Sampson. The younger James was able to sign his own name.
What makes these families more difficult to work on is the fact that the spelling of the surname varies (mostly between Berriman and Berryman) and also that many could not write. The younger James could write and signed his name as 'Berryman' but his father and brother could not write but there names were entered into marriage records as 'Berriman'. You may have already noted that when the children of James and Christian were baptised the name as written in the register alternated between the two spellings.
And just to make things a little more difficult - members of the same family often signed their names differently!!
For my purposes I use the spellings interchangeably and have never tried to determine particular lines by the spelling. The use of marks and being able to sign however is logical and I think you are on to something.
"John B and Martha married in 26 April 1818, and the 2 children I found were baptised in 1818 and 1824. So, there may well be others in between which I haven't found yet.
The baptisms I found for John Berriman and Jane at Towednack were: Eliza 16 July 1826 PB John 12 April 1829 Elizabeth 12 April 1829 Matthew 24 December 1831 Mary Jane 18 September 1836 Elizabeth Jane 13 August 1837 Grace Martins 6 December 1840
John was listed as "Miner" against all these baptisms."
However there was a John Berryman who married a Jane Martin on 05 JUL 1828 at Towednack who would as a couple most likely be the parents of some of the listed children. Witnesses at the wedding were James Martin and Michael Curnow.
Looking at the 1841 census accounts for at least John, Elizabeth and Grace being children of this couple.