Catholic Church at Sennen?

[Cornish Terrier]

Difficult to know where this one should go but as the early part of what I have found seems to be here at Sennen then ......

This problem involves the names of ELLIOTT, UREN, TREWHELLA, ROUNCEFIELD, FAULL, NOALL ... and the Parishes (so far) of Sennen, Sancreed, Towednack, Lelant, Ludgvan and St Ives.

It began with the following marriage at Halsetown:-

25th January 1903
William Trewhella Elliott, 21, bachelor, stone cutter, of Halsetown son of William Trewhella Uren Elliott, farmer, married
Mary Noall Rouncefield, 20, spinster, of Norway Lane, St Ives daughter of Henry Faull Rouncefield, fisherman

What I want to find out, obviously is how the name TREWHELLA became involved here.

I have found the Birth Registration for William Trewhella ELLIOTT in FreeBMD - Penzance R.D. 1882 March Qtr Vol 5c Page 274.

What I cannot find are his parents or their marriage which is looking increasingly like having occurred somewhere outside the UK.

Initial searches for the ELLIOTT family seem to indicate the probability that the TREWHELLA name entered the scenario from the marriage of the above groom's father and I suspect that she was very likely a UREN.

There are known UREN/TREWHELLA connections but they appear at the moment to be a little late or perhaps a fraction early.

I digress.

Having located he birth for William Trewella ELLIOTT (as Regd.) I turned to the Census.

In 1891 at Halsetown

Elizabeth ELLIOTT, head, wid., 64, Sennen
Bessie do., daur, unm, 26, Towednack
Thomas do., grandson, 11, Lelant
WILLIAM T do., grandson, 8, Lelant

In 1881 at Balnoon, Lelant

John ELLIOTT, head, mar, 53, miner, Ludgvan
Elizabeth do., wife, mar, 54, Sennen
Henry do., son, 20, Towednack
Ellen do., daur, 17, Towednack
Thomas do., grandson, 1, Lelant

In 1871 at Balnoon, Lelant

John ELLIOT, head, mar, 46, miner, Ludgvan
Eliza do., wife, mar, 46, Sennen
WILLIAM do., unm, 17, Sancreed
Emma do., daur, unm, 16, Sanreed
Henry do., son, 11, Towednack
James do., son, 10, Towednack
Ellen do., daur, 7, Towednack
Bessie do., daur, 6, Towednack

In 1861 at Cold Harbour, Towednack

John ELLIOT, head, mar, 35, miner, Ludgvan
Elizabeth do., wife, mar, 36, Sennen
John do., son, 13, Sennen
Mary Ann do., daur, 11, Sancreed
Elizabeth Jane do., daur, 8, Sancreed
WILLIAM do., son, 6, Sancreed
Emma do., daur, 5, Sancreed
Alford do., son, 3, Sancreed
Henry do., son, 2, Towednack
James do., son, 6 mths, Towednack

In 1851 at Chergwidden Vean, Sancreed

John ELLIOT, head, mar, 26, Ludgvan
Elizabeth do., wife, mar, 26, Sennen
John do., son, 4, Sancreed
Mary An do., daur, 1, Sancreed

Eveything is nice and consistent with the ages through all Census records and, as is quite evident, the family moved quite a bit over the years.

From this I have deduced the following:-

John ELLIOTT bp. 2nd July 1826 at Ludgvan s/o John and Mary

There are only four baptisms for ELLIOT at Ludgvan and all are for this family.

I now suspect that the family had been at Sancreed prior to having children at Ludgvan.

And here enters the Holy Catholic Church at Sennen:-

28 Nov 1846 by Banns
John Elliot 21 Miner of Sennen (Father: John Elliot, Husbandry)
Elizabeth Hall 21 of Sennen [Mark] (Father: John Hall, Cordwainer)
Witnesses: John Hall, George Vingoe
Holy Catholic Church

I am about to check for baptisms for the family although I probably won't find the Towednack or Lelant events as my data does not cover those later years.

However, I would like any assistance that might be available in tracking dwn the marriage of William ELLIOTT, father of William Trewhella ELLIOTT.

If any one can help I will be grateful - as always.

I am sure Cornishmaid will be able to tell me a little more about the NOALL connection.

Elizabeth HALL was bp. 2nd Occtober 1825 at Sennen d/o John (cordwainer) and Sabina

I am unable to find the marriage of John and Sabina HALL so if someone can find that it would be most useful.

I have tried the OPC and also searched Sennen, St Levan, St Buryan, St Just, Sancreed and Paul to no avail.

CT

[Cornish Terrier]

Seem to have run into a bit of a problem with this one.

William bp. 1854 at Sancreed s/o John and Elizabeth is the one I have currently as being the probable father of Willim Trewhella ELLIOTT.

However, there are two baptisms at Towednack that seem to throw a small spanner into the works.

Two of the children listed in the 1871 Census as born Towednack were baptised there in 1864 and 1865 respectively.

But then on 4th July 1869 John and Elizabeth ELLIOTT bapised to children - Kate and WILLIAM.

Is this the same family or am I now dealing with two families of John and Elizabeth ELLIOTT!!

The 1891 Census seems clear enough.

Elizabeth ELLIOTT, widow, age 64 and born Sennen (matches all in my last note) was at Halsetown with daughter Bessie, grandson Thomas and Grandson WILLIAM T whose age matches the birth record of William Trewella ELLIOTT.

[londoner]

Have found Elizabeth in 1841 at Escalls, Sennen with PArents John & Mary and sister Honor 15
Marriage for John Hall to Mary Wright 1830 Sennen
previous marriage John Hall to Elizabeth Nicholas 1828 Sennen
but baptism is a bit tricky - ELizabeth d/o John & Elizabeth Hall 14 July 1833! need to revisit and see if I missed anything.

[Cornish Terrier]

Might have the wrong Elizabeth there m'dear.

Elizabeth was born at Sennen about 1824 according to the Census records in which case she would be baptised 2nd October 1825 at Sennen d/o of John and Sabina Hall.

'Tis the marriage of John and Sabina that I need.

[newlyn]

Hello Cornish Terrier

There was a John Hoall who married a Sabina Russell in Sennen on 17.7.1814

Newlyn

[Cornish Terrier]

Well Done Newlyn!!

That is the one - and no wonder I did not find it.

I used the old keyboard shortcut to search and just used the surname 'Hall' as my search term - didn't find it because of the stry 'o' in the name.

Will see where things lead from there.

CT

[newlyn]

I have come across a Martin Russell who married Elizabeth Grose in Sennen 24.6.1755.
Perhaps Martin is the father of Sabina?
There was a Martin Russell b.18.3.1710 and Elizabeth Russell b.1.1.1707 both of Sennen.
Martin and Elizabeth were the children of James Russell.

Also A Thomas Owls married Jone George in Sennen 6.2.1762
If you say it fast enough can Hoall/Hall sound like Owls???

Over to you

Newlyn

[Cornish Terrier]

Hmmm - I think that is probably a little early for Sabina.

She would not have been born before about 1780 which would be 25 years after that marriage and Martin would have been about 70.

Not impossible but I think he might have ben a little worn out by that stage.

I only know of five children for Martn so far but suspect there might be a few more.

But he would be more worn out because Elizabeth GROSE was (as far as I can tell) his THIRD WIFE!

Not only that - he needed to save som energy for his FOURTH WIFE who he married at St Hilary in 1786.

All of this needs verification of course - but I id a little work on this several years ago and there appears to have been no other Martin RUSSELL who could have been involved.

Think we need to look elsewhere for Sabina's parents.

Other problem is to actually find Sabina herself.

She does not even appear in IGI.

[londoner]

I stand by my claim for 1841 because:
1823 to John & Sabina: Honor
21 Nov 1827 Burial Sennen Binah? Hall
then John m Mary Wright 1830

Sabina was 35 when she died so it is just possible for her to be the daughter of Mary Russell (who had a son Martin in 1771) or indeed of that Martin.

But there is a Martin age 20 buried at St Hilary in 1791 so he was probably the son of Martin snr (tho' why he should be bp s/o Mary unless it should have said Martin) who m Joan John in 1786. Joan was buried the following year(1792).

Looks like Martin snr came back to Sennen after they died as there is a burial (no age unfortunately) in 1792 at Sennen.

Too many Martins and still no Sabina

[londoner]

John Hall was the son of James (d 1837 age 81) & Elizabeth (nee Bottrell d 1855 age 90) who m 1793. their children:
John 1793 (d 1858 Union w/house) father of Elizabeth & Honor etc
James 1794
Anne 1796
Christopher Bottrell 1797
Thomas Math.
1791
Henry 1802 (m Sarah Matthews)
William 1803
Elizabeth 1805
Maria 1809 (mother of Barnabas, aka Neriboth, and John Short Hall) who we have discussed before.

Agreed the John who m Elizabeth Nicholas was a different chap.

[Cornish Terrier]

Some interesting points here that I need to think about.

Will respond properly later - after I have recovered from the Fire Brigade dinner and had some time to rest and relax.

There are no QUICK solutions available apparently.