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Post by Cornish Terrier on Nov 11, 2008 22:48:40 GMT -5
Sorry about that extra little problem - I found the same baptism also. Provided Margery THOMAS was baptised at St Ives I am afraid the names of her parents are not going to be of much use to us. William and Margery were both still living in 1841 and were at Back Road, St Ives - both aged 70. There is a John BRYANT, age 10, enumerated with them who would appear to be probably a grandson. But I cannot see where he fits in - especially as this is probably the John baptised 10th December 1830 at St Ives s/o Thomas and Nancy. William and Margery used Thomas as a second name for two of their sons but there is not a son just named Thomas that I am aware of. The only Margery THOMAS who could be a match:- Margery d/o RICHARD & MARTHA THOMAS bp. 16th October 1768 St Ives William and Margery did not name any children Richard or Martha. Richard THOMAS, tinner married Martha HENDY 24th July 1763 at St Ives There must be a solution to all of this and if it is there I will find it.
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jmg
Ysel
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Post by jmg on Nov 15, 2008 21:58:22 GMT -5
Hi, With William and Margery both in the 1841 census at Back road St. Ives both aged 70 with them is John aged 10. I thought that John may have been a son of Henry Bryant and Mary Roach (Mary’s father was John). I found a John Thomas Bryant (Father - John Thomas Bryant ) marrying Elizabeth Richards in St. Ives 14 April 1856. Age is right for the John who was with William and Margery in 1841 aged 10.
I thought that Thomas was used as a second name because Margery’s maiden name was Thomas. I have William Thomas Bryant born 1790, James Thomas Bryant born 1792 and John Thomas Bryant 1804. I think, James Bryant, Ship owner 45 (1841 census) married a Jane. They were living in St. Ives at Salubrious Place. I’ve got written down somewhere William Thomas Bryant in the 1841 census, but couldn’t find John Thomas Bryant.
The only William Bryant birth/baptism I could find was in Lelant 1734 to James and Mary. Could William have named 1st son after himself and second son after his father? But it still doesn’t explain why no Richard. Ist daughter is named Margery. 2nd daughter is named Mary maybe after William’s mother. So that would make William’s parents James and Mary. What do you think?
Jenny.
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Post by Cornish Terrier on Nov 15, 2008 23:30:04 GMT -5
A couple of things to keep in mind here:- We still have the William 'of Lelant' who was married in 1756 and the only baptism that really could be him at the moment appears to be 1734 s/o James and Mary. That means we are back to square one with your own William. The other thing to consider is that not everyone followed 'the rules' when it came to naming children. We may have to start looking further afield I think and see if something might turn up in another Parish. BTW - looks like William and Margery may have both failed to make it to the 1851 Census. Margery died 1847 March Qtr Vol 9 Page 129 There is a Margery died March Qtr 1840 - obviously not her as she was alive in 1841. The only other one (apart from 1847) was a child in 1901. Looks probable that this is William:- William BRYANT Penzance R.D. 1847 December Qtr Vol 9 Page 103 The only other one before 1851 was William M Bryant and then we have one in December Qtr 1851 followed by 1852 and so on. The problem persists.
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jmg
Ysel
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Post by jmg on Nov 18, 2008 22:56:23 GMT -5
I have been taking a few days to try and work things out. Just a few questions that you maybe able to clarify for me.
William and Margery were listed a being 70 in the 1841 census. In the 1841 census did they put the ages up or down? Were they say 68 and put up to 70 or were they 73 and put down to 70. William who married Jane Martins was listed as being from Lelant, but William who married Jane Noall was not listed from anywhere else, does that mean he was born in St. Ives or just had been living in St. Ives?
Can I order these death certificates over the net with the numbers that you quoted and how?
Thanks, Jenny
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Post by Cornish Terrier on Nov 19, 2008 2:59:42 GMT -5
In 1841 the age of adults (i.e. anyone over 15) was rounded down to the nearest 5 years. Where an age is recorded as, for example, 72 or 73 then it is most probable that this is an accurate number. (As accurate as the person knows anyway.) Birthplaces - William who married Jane NOALL 'may not' necessarily have been born in St Ives but I would see that, if not, he had certainly been resident there for quite some time. I have just checked and you can order BMD Certificates online. Go to this site and you should be able to get what you want:- www.bmd-certificates.co.uk/?gclid=CIyh4ILigJcCFRKIxwod12bY_ACT
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Post by Cornish Terrier on Nov 19, 2008 3:08:13 GMT -5
PS - on having another look there are actually a few sites where you can order BMD Certificates for the UK. I suggest you do a lookup and check each of them to ensure you get the best deal. To find them just do a Google Search and use the search term:- death certificates UK The first few are the ones you want. This one appears to be the official GRO site:- General information with links to Ordering Service www.gro.gov.uk/gro/content/Ordering Service www.gro.gov.uk/gro/content/certificates/Or there is this one which claims to be an Official Ordering Service for the GRO:- www.ukcertificates.com/CT
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jmg
Ysel
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Post by jmg on Nov 23, 2008 22:30:52 GMT -5
Hello, I am going to order the death certificates for William Bryant and Margery Bryant. I will let you know when they arrive. I hope they have some information on them that my be useful, but we will see. Another question - Can we order a full marriage certificate for William Bryant and Margery Thomas - married St. Ives 1789. If so where from. Thanks for the help, Jenny
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Post by Cornish Terrier on Nov 24, 2008 1:44:12 GMT -5
Hi Jenny, For pre-civil registration BMDs you are probably best to contact the Cornwall Record Office who where Parish Registers are deposited once they are no longer in use. They can then copy the relevant entry for you. The following link should take you direct to the CRO document ordering service:- www.cornwall.gov.uk/index.cfm?articleid=38229I think it is pretty well self-explanatory so try that and see how you get on. In most cases the Marriage entry will include names of Witnesses and, perhaps, other useful detail. CT
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jmg
Ysel
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Post by jmg on Dec 3, 2008 19:24:19 GMT -5
Cornish Terrier, The death certificates have arrived for William Bryant and his wife Margery Bryant.
Margery died 2nd Jan, 1847 aged 78, at St. Ives, wife of William Bryant, Master Mariner, registered at sub-district St. Ives. This would make Margery born 1768/69. Which is consistent with her parents being Richard Thomas and Martha Hendy.
William Bryant death 21st October 1847 at St. Ives aged 82 Master Mariner. Registered at sub-district St. Ives. John Humphrey is the informant on both certificates. This would mean that William was born in 1764/1765.
The only William Bryant I could find were William born 1764 Lelant to William & Elizabeth and 1767 St. Ives William & Jane. There were William born to Peter and Martha at Lelant in 1767 and William born to John and Joan in Kilkhampton. The death certificate hasn’t really helped much but to add more confusion.
jmg
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Post by Cornish Terrier on Dec 4, 2008 1:56:29 GMT -5
jmg - at least we have something more to work with now. My conclusions:- Ignore the William baptised at Kilkhampton - it is too far away and we have no other evidence of interaction with that Parish. William batismed 1764 was actually baptised in early February and quite possibly born in 1763. I know we are relying on accuracy with the age at death but I think this bloke might be discounted as he would have been 84 or 85 if he was the subject of that certificate. And it may have no real bearing on matters but this same William's father was a tinner. The son of Peter - well William never used that name among his four sons so I would think he was not the father. And that leaves us with the husband of Jane NOALL. He was a mariner which supports the case given our 'problem child' was a 'master mariner'. Unfortunately our 'informant' is not a great deal of help. I was hoping he may have married one of William's daughters and that would have sealed the issue for us. Nevertheless - my opinion is that William was more likely the son of William and Margery. Big problem is still to correctly identify the senior William. CT
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Post by cornishmaid on Dec 8, 2008 19:37:40 GMT -5
William and Margery were both still living in 1841 and were at Back Road, St Ives - both aged 70. There is a John BRYANT, age 10, enumerated with them who would appear to be probably a grandson. But I cannot see where he fits in - especially as this is probably the John baptised 10th December 1830 at St Ives s/o Thomas and Nancy. William and Margery used Thomas as a second name for two of their sons but there is not a son just named Thomas that I am aware of. ----------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Now have I done the quote bit right? The John Bryant resident with William and Margery Bryant in 1841 does not appear to be the son of Thomas Bryant and Nancy. Thomas and Nancy are also resident in Back Road, St Ives, in 1841, with 2 children: Thomas aged 13, and John aged 11. Thomas was baptised 19 December 1828 and John on 10 December 1830. Thomas Bryant married Ann Jacobs in St Ives on 1 February 1827. Ann/Nancy then died between 1841 and 1851 (probably 1848) and Thomas remarried an Elizabeth. Given his age on the census, Thomas was most likely the son of George Bryant and Ann, and was baptised on 16 January 1803. Anyway, I digress . In the 1851 census I have found another John Bryant of the right age living at Halsetown. This John was born in Lelant. With him are Margaret his wife aged 23, born Towednack; son William John Bryant aged 11 months; and Jane Champion, Lodger, Widow, age 62, also born Towednack. I believe John Bryant's wife was Margaret Michell Berriman, baptised at Towednack on 23 September 1827 to William & Wilmot. John married Margaret in the first quarter of 1850, Penzance district. There are 2 possible baptisms in Lelant for John Bryant: John Harvey Bryant, bapt. 1 February 1829 to Zacharius & Mary John Glasson Bryant, bapt. 14 August 1831 to William & Elizabeth Given that John's son was named William John Bryant, I prefer the latter baptism. (William Bryant married Elizabeth Glasson in Lelant on 15 May 1831.) Just need to find the connection now Am going to post this one a minute, in case of computer failure, and see if I can find any more.
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Post by cornishmaid on Dec 8, 2008 20:14:55 GMT -5
Alternatively if John Bryant, son of Thomas Bryant and Nancy, could have been enumerated twice It wouldn't be the first time . His parents were living in the same street after all.
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Post by Cornish Terrier on Dec 8, 2008 20:23:41 GMT -5
Hmmm - almost, but not quite 99! Just above the emoticons (smileys) there are two rows of buttons. The second-last button on the bottom row has a blue arrow pointing to the right. This is the 'quote' button. Now:- Place your cursor on the page where you want to insertthe quote. Click on the 'quote' button and it will place the following into your note (where I use () the quote will be in []) (quote)(/quote) Now, copy the text you wish to quote (i.e. highlight it the right click on it and 'copy'). Place mouse pointer between )( of the quotes like (quote) place here (/quote) - right click and 'paste'. The text will be inserted. Then make sure you place your cursor somewhere outside the quotes where you want to begin typing again. All should then be hunky dory! I must sleep so will catch up on this note later on tonight when I can think a little more clearly. CT
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Post by cornishmaid on Dec 8, 2008 20:26:53 GMT -5
Will give that a go I also must get some sleep. Will visit afresh tomorrow
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Dec 8, 2008 22:43:30 GMT -5
CT & Cornishmaid Cornishmaid, I reckon the easiest way to do the quoting thing is first to do a standard cut and paste - that is - highlight the bit you want to copy, then right click copy - then go to your new message and right click paste. Once you have done that, hightlight it again and push the quote button - second from the right on the bottom row. I have William Bryant and Elizabeth Glasson in my lot. William, son of Robert Bryant and Grace Roach. Elizabeth, daughter of John Glasson and Elizabeth Trewhella. Lannanta, who just wrote a whole message without mentioning the Q.... family
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