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Post by Cornish Terrier on Oct 4, 2008 1:50:29 GMT -5
Lannanta and Gandolf - it is going to take me a little time to carefully read through your latest notes before I can respond properly. However, I have just found something that almost threw are darned big spanner in the works. If you have a look at the 1861 Census for Richard C NINNES born about 1816 you will see what I mean. Richard married Elizabeth d/o William Williams Quick and his wife Elizabeth who was d/o Richard and Elizabeth (nee Daniel) Quick. Remember that this last Elizabeth, as a widow, married Richard MARTIN of our earlier notes on this thread. In the 1861 Census in the household of Richard C NINNES is his widowed father, Daniel L NINNES. And also there (the potential spanner) was Elizabeth QUICK, age 80 - WIFE'S MOTHER!! I thought that all of a sudden all that work had gone right out the window. But I have had another good look at the problem and can safely say that the family is still intact. ;D This Elizabeth was actually recorded incorrectly and, in fact, was the GRANDMOTHER of Richard Ninnes' wife. i.e. she was Elizabeth nee DANIEL! WHEW! Now I can sit back and work my way through your notes and questions etc. and (hopefully) provide some sensible answers. CT
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Post by Cornish Terrier on Oct 4, 2008 3:39:05 GMT -5
I will deal with the naming of Christian first with the question being "Why did Richard and Elizabeth use that name?". Firstly, I believe we are agreed that Richard was baptised 1776 s/o Paul and Elizabeth QUICK. We know that Paul and Elizabeth had only two children - sons Paul and Richard - and that Paul died about 1778/9. The sons Paul and Richard were only about 3 and 4 years old when their father died and so would barely, if at all, remember him and would probably have no knowledge of his family. Much discussion has gone on about whether Paul was the son of James and Mary or son of Paul and Christian. The answer can have no real bearing on the names used by Richard and Elizabetin - in my opinion. Paul Quick (the elder) died in 1740 and left a Will. Christian is, I believe, the widowed Christian Quick buried at St Ives 28th September 1762 more than 20 years prior to Richard being born! Therefore it is extremely unlikely that Richard's daughter was named for her. Gandolf has pointed out that Richard's mother had a sister named Christian and perhaps she had something to do with the upbringing of her nephews. But there is another option. ;D Richard had a half-sister named CHRISTIAN from his mother's marriage to Thomas NOALL. For PART TWO of your question - who was this Elizabeth? Simple answer - I still believe she was the daughter of Andrew and Honor. I think you have yourself mixed up here just a little. (Hicks Special Draught?? Paul and Christian did not have a son named Richard either so I reckon you are thinking about Paul's wife Elizabeth. As you know I still believe it more likely that she was the daughter of Andrew and Honour and it seems Gandolf thinks the same. The big problem is that there was no Richard in this family either and that is really the name in contention. As pointed out in an earlier post in the Chyanchy thread - if Paul was the son of James and Mary then his sister Ann married Richard BARAGWANATH. That is a reasonable possibility and was not an unusual occurrence as I have seen in other families. The naming of a son, particularly first son, as Paul is obvious regardless of whether his father was son of Paul, Fred, Joe or whoever. But there is something else to think about that I only just realised we had neglected. If Paul was who Gandolf and I reckon he was then why not name a son - JAMES. Your obvious answer will be, I think, that it means Elizabeth must have been the daughter of Richard. But we still have:- She would have been 16 years old. There is no indication of 'consent of parents'. The marriage was witnessed by ANDREW QUICK. But he was the SECOND son. That, I believe, is my lot for now so I will go off and have another check to see if I can answer the riddle of Billy Noall Quick's name. CT
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Post by Cornish Terrier on Oct 4, 2008 3:50:05 GMT -5
Billy Noall QUICK.
This may be one for Cornishmaid to help with given 'Noall' is her speialty. ;D
But I think this name most likely came from the name of one of Richard Quick's half-brothers.
Thomas and Elizabeth had a son William baptised in 1787 and 'possibly' another of that name in 1792 or 1793. (1792 more likely.)
I think we should consider the possibility that something happened to William NOALL somewhere around the time Billy Noall QUICK was born.
As Richard already had a son named William he chose 'Billy' to differentiate and to also acknowledge/remember his half-brother.
CT
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Post by Deleted on Oct 4, 2008 5:45:13 GMT -5
CT
I do not think I said that they did me old mate.
I am not proposing that either of these two options are any better or any worse than each other or for that matter any more plausible than the possibiliy of another Paul hidden away in the records somewhere. A son of James having two boys without using James does not fill me with confidence, certainly not enough confidence to stop looking for something that might prove the link.
One day and a bit to go - yippee ;D ;D ;D ;D
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Post by Cornish Terrier on Oct 5, 2008 2:57:15 GMT -5
I agree there are still answers to be found and will continue to search for them. Meanwhile - you enjoy yourself in Cornwall and the Tinners' Arms, you'll love it!
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Post by gandolf on Oct 10, 2008 6:56:03 GMT -5
Richard s/o Richard and Elizabeth (Daniel) Quick was a widower when he married Grace Bennats Downing in 1842 so it is obvious he had been married before. And his first wife was:- Hannah SHUGG m. 24th November 1834 St Ives OR Jane GENT m. 4th February 1836 St Ives OR BOTH because he was widowed twice I don't this Richard married Hannah Shugg first. There is no evidence of a burial at St. Ives for her, which is where you would expect to find a burial if she had died a year or so after her marriage (especially as Richard married there in 1836). I can however see a burial for a Jane Quick in the Cornwall OPC database, with the source given as the West Briton Newspaper. Dated 18th May 1838 (ie newspaper date) - Mrs Jane Quick of St. Ives, aged 24. This must surely be Richard's first wife.
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Post by gandolf on Oct 10, 2008 7:05:47 GMT -5
Indirect confirmation that Elizabeth Quick (1753 - ?), wife of Paul Quick (1744 - bef.1780) is correctly placed as the child of Andrew Quick and Honor Thomas.
Elizabeth's grandson Richard Quick (b.1809, son of Richard Quick and Elizabeth Daniel), as mentioned in previous posts in this thread married 2ndly to Grace Bennetts Downing.
Richard and Grace named two of their children as: Grace Osborn Bennetts QUICK, b. 1847 St. Ives Georgina Osborn Dunn QUICK, b. 1852 St. Ives
Elizabeth Quick (1753 - ?) had as her paternal grandparents (parents of Andrew Quick) Andrew Quick and Mary Osborn.
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Post by gandolf on Oct 10, 2008 7:14:29 GMT -5
Been sorting out the children of Christian Quick and James Bennetts. They were (all born at Ludgvan):
Elizabeth Quick BENNETTS, b. 1848 (unmarried 1891) James BENNETTS, b. 1853 (m. 1874 Fanny Russell CURNOW, 5 children) Christiana Quick BENNETTS, b. 1858 (unmarried 1891) Mary Hosking BENNETTS, b. 1862
Mary Hosking Bennets married Jan-Mar 1901 Penzance district, to either: Charles CURNOW OR Thomas Edward ROBERTS
Perhaps someone with access to the 1901 census could check to see if they can pick up which is her husband?
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Post by Cornish Terrier on Oct 10, 2008 12:33:36 GMT -5
Looks like you might be right here - certainly about Hannah SHUGG. She was alive and well and living in St George in the East, MDX with husband Richard QUICK in 1851. And here is a bit of a story. I had only just done some work on this particular Richard a couple of days ago. By chance, whilst looking at Census records for something else, I discovered an error in my database. This error was, I believe, caused as a result of previous Census lookups. You see, in 1851 Census there is a Richard QUICK age 45 with wife Blanch. (She was Blanch CURNOW). I had placed this Richard as the son of James and Eleanor (nee HODGE) QUICK because of this. However, when I had a look at the 1841 Census this same Richard was then age 55. On closer inspection of the 1851 data I could see why an error had been made because the figure does actually look like 45. BUT the writing on the page is quite faint and although the '5' in his age is clear enough the first digit is not quite so clear. The error has been made because the enumerator (or his checker) have placed their mark over that particular digit in such a manner that it is 'altered' in the mind of the viewer. The actual digit part of the age is extremely faint and only part of it can be barely made out. The lines used by the Census people conspire to make the figure look like a '4' but these lines are very dark and obviously drawn in later. Richard was really about 65 years old and instead of being the son of James and Eleanor was actually the son of James' father James and his then wife Ann (nee TONKYN). The younger Richard (bp. 1806) was an 'Officer of Customs' then living in St George in the East with his wife Ruth and step-daughter Eliza Ann DODDS. I found the marriage of Richard QUICK to Ruth DODDS in 1859 but I cannot find an earlier marriage for her and nor can I find a birth record for her daughter. It was THIS Richard QUICK who married Hannah SHUGG and in the 1851 Census both are shown as having been born in St Ives and Richard was then also a Customs Officer. Hannah must have died sometime in the next few years and if I can only get into FreeBMD and find a death record for Hannah it will help me prove the scenario. Hope this is not too confusing! BTW - Richard's brother James was also living in London and was also a Customs Officer. James married someone named 'Mary' (bn. St Ives) but I cannot find the marriage. They had a son, James, born about 1854 in London and, although I have not tracked him down yet, both James and Mary were later buried at St Ives. Will comment on your remaining messages later on. CT
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Post by Cornish Terrier on Oct 10, 2008 13:10:54 GMT -5
Gandolf - at this point I would have to say that the link is (by a long way) far too tenuous to consider as any sort of proof of Elizabeth QUICK's parentage. BUT there is what I consider to be some (yet to be proved) very good evidence to suggest she was, indeed, the daughter of Andrew and Honor. St Ives Burials:- 3rd November 1829 Elizabeth NOALL, age 76 This puts her birth at about 1753 and I can so far find no other Elizabeth NOALL who this could possibly be.
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Post by gandolf on Oct 10, 2008 18:14:35 GMT -5
CT, I agree that the possibility of the use of the name Osborn is tenuous, hence my use of the words "indirect evidence".
However, the Osborn connection must have been at least at the grandparent level (or earlier) of either Richard Quick or his wife Grace Downing, since Grace's parents were Henry Downing and Ann Bennetts.
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Post by trencrom on Dec 29, 2008 0:55:52 GMT -5
Ann Bennetts mother was also an Osborn, so that is probably where the name in this instance came from. See also the Grace Downing thread for further information. Trencrom
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Post by sue on Jan 12, 2011 11:19:57 GMT -5
Just been talking about the Mary Hosking Bennetts married Jan-Mar 1901 Penzance district today, to a relative whose dad visited her in 1924 per a diary.....
She was married to Charles Curnow b Manaccan c 1878, son of John Lawrence Curnow and Elizabeth Ivey married 2 Oct 1866 St Keverne; John L Curnow being baptized 3 May 1835 to John Cornow & Mary Lawrence @ St Keverne.
Back to Mary Hosking Bennettts: the young lady of this name who married Charles Curnow 1901 was the daughter of James Bennetts & Fanny Russell Curnow, born Sep Q 1875 - named for his sister etc.
Charles Curnow & Mary Hosking Bennetts lived at Whitecross, Ludgvan, & had children that included :
John James Curnow Dec Q 1902 Robert Charles Curnow Jun Q 1904 Christiana Mary Curnow Mar Q 1907 Frederick Arthur Curnow Mar Q 1909 Elizabeth Gwendoline Curnow Jun Q 1910
Mary Hosking Bennetts b 1862 Ludgvan to James Bennetts & Christian Quick would appear to have remained unmarried, living away from Cornwall in Bristol 1911, age 48.......
Sue
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Post by Cornish Terrier on Jan 14, 2011 22:30:10 GMT -5
That marriage occurred in the Pontypridd Registration District in the March Qtr of 1885. But I have so far only found four children - all from the Census records:- Lizzie - born about 1885 Pontypridd William - born about 1888 Pontypridd Alfred - born about 1890 Pontypridd Mary J - born about 1897 Pontypridd Names of the other two and any other available details would be appreciated. CT
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Post by Cornish Terrier on Jan 16, 2011 0:29:34 GMT -5
Thanks Roadrunner - that gives me one more. But I believe I must still be missing one child for William George and Mary Jane. In the 1911 Census Mary Jane says she was the mother of seven children but only four were still living. The names I have now are:- Elizabeth Harriet (Lizzie) born 1885 (married in 1905 to William Griffiths or Walter Mendey) William George born 1887 and died 1901 Alfred Charles born 1890 Edward John born 1894 and died 1897 Mary Jane born 1897 Emma born 1901 That makes six so there was another child who died. (See email for a contact for your friends.) CT
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