Thomas Quick of Camborne

[Deleted]

I am working with this Quick family at the moment.

Richard bur 4/2/1725 M Bap 1/3/1700 Camborne Thomas Son of Thomas
Rebecca bur 23/4/1703 F Bap 5/12/1702 Camborne Thomas Dau of Thomas
John M Bap 22/11/1707 Camborne Thomas Cornwall Baptism Index - CFHS
Elizabeth F Bap 11/6/1710 Camborne Thomas Dau of Thomas
Mary F Bap /1713 Gwithian Thomas & Joane Thomas Quick of Camborne
William M Bap 22/3/1717 Camborne Thomas Cornwall Baptism Index - CFHS

Thomas appeared to have married Joan around the turn of the 18th Century, but I do not believe that I have that marriage. Thomas died intestate around 1727 and I have not found any information to connect him to the Quick families of Zennor, Towednack, St Ives etc.

Thoroughly perplexed, but there is a nagging doubt in my mind as to what happened to the son of Thomas Quick and Zenobia who must have been named Thomas given the naming patterns used near that time. Very unscientific I know.

[Cornish Terrier]

Taking a look at this family now but have not yet looked at Gwithian.
I have located all those you have listed except for Mary and I will check that out shortly.

Have checked Camborne Marriages and there were none for Quicks up until the end of 1775.

Checked baptisms up until 1760 and found two more which might be of passing interest.

8th October 1732 John s/o Thomas Quick

Was Thomas an as yet unfound son of the subject of this thread??

8th May 1748 Jane d/o Elizabeth Hocking - reputed father James Quick

Okay - now we have a stray James in the mix.

Thomas Quick was buried at Camborne 27th March 1727.

Now checked burials 1680-1779 and Thomas is the only one.

Mary at Gwithian in 1713 is the only one of this family involved in that Parish.

So where does that leave us? - Nowhere.

Trying some IGI searching to see if I can pick some clues:-

Illogan and Redruth are out of the equation.
Gwithian already checked.
Gwinear and Crowan also provided no results.
Wendron, Stithians and Sithney were likewise.

Gwennap is the only Parish that far East with any 'known' links to Towednack/Zennor and that was Gabriel Quick and his family.

The above-mentioned Parishes had either no Quick events at all or what few events there were did not occur until very much later.

It is, therefore, very likely that Thomas was somehow connected to the Quicks of Zennor/Towednack - but how .....

Your thoughts about Thomas s/o Thomas and Zenobia bear consideration but also leave us with another problem - there must be another generation in between him and our Thomas at Camborne.

We must also remember that, as far as I am aware, Thomas and Zenobia only had a son named Thomas because WE ALL EXPECTED them to have a son of that name.
No one seems to have included a daughter named Zenobia in this family so it is possible that there was no son named Thomas.

In short - we do not have any real evidence of the existence of this bloke.

We have documented evidence of the following children of Thomas and Zenobia - Phillipa, Francis, James, Anthony and Emblyn.

A Jane Quick married William Symons at Ludgvan in 1667 and is a presumed daughter.

But there may be another solution.

There is another 'possible' son of Thomas and Zenobia for whom there is at least one documented fact.

In the Towednack B.T.'s there is an entry dated 5th March 1664 for the baptism of one THOMAS son of JOHN QUICK.

And we know the name of John's wife:-

Elizabeth wife of John Quick was buried 8th April 1702 at Towednack (Hoblyn Transcript).

And it is possible that John and Elizabeth were the parents of Richard QUICK who first married Ann HICKS in 1697 and then Alice WILLIAMS in 1698.

So now let's take another look at our family from Camborne and see how things look.

Thomas QUICK m. Joane (unknown)

RICHARD bp. 1700
Rebeckah bp. 1702
JOHN bp. 1707
ELIZABETH bp. 1710
Mary bp. 1713
William bp. 1718

There are names enough here to suggest the possibility that we have our connection to Towednack. ;D

And one further piece of documented evidence regarding John:-

In Matthews 'History of St Ives etc.' there is a reference in a Rosewall deposition to a JOHN QUICK of Towednack, aged 50, who had "indifferently divided the lands belonging to the deft."

At this point in time I will say "et voila"

Your thoughts please.

[Deleted]

Completely out of my depth

[Cornish Terrier]

Well - you asked the question. ;D

Never mind, I will try and simplify it a little because the way I did it was probably my usual 'write and send now and think about it later' approach.

Firstly, there appears to be no possibility of a Thomas Quick emanating from the East of Cornwall and I have checked all available information from the Parishes I listed.

This leaves areas West which I have previously checked so it seems certain that Thomas was from this area.

Now I will try and explain my thoughts a little better.

Nothing seems to be known about Thomas the supposed son of Thomas and Zenobia Quick and I have seen nothing to prove that he actually existed.

He did not appear in the Protestation Returns in 1641 so was born after 1623 and possibly into the 1630's

Now if he did actually exist he may have married sometime in the 1650's or 1660's which would mean that the Thomas at Camborne could possibly be his son.

There are one helluva lot of 'ifs' involved with that.

On the other hand there is a Thomas for whom we do have some proof of existence.

Thomas son of John Quick was baptised at Towednack 5th March 1664/5 (Towednack BT's)

John Quick was mentioned in the 1680's Rosewall Deposition and his age was recorded as 50 and would fit him right into the family of Thomas and Zenobia.

Elizabeth wife of John Quick was buried at Towednack 8th April 1702 (Hoblyn Transcript)

So we have documented proof that there was a John Quick at Towednack with a wife Elizabeth and who had a son named Thomas baptised in 1664/5.

The Richard Quick who married 1. Ann Hicks at Towednack 1697 and 2. Alice Williams at St Buryan 1698 is also very likely to be a son of this John.

From the Wills of Francis, James and Anthony Quick (sons of Thomas and Zenobia) we know that Richard was not a son of theirs.

James had a son named Richard baptised in 1663/4 but he died in 1692.

So this Richard must almost certainly be a son of John.

Thomas at Camborne had amongst his children Thomas (possibly), Richard, John and Elizabeth (certainly).

Richard may have been named for his brother whilst John and Elizabeth would have been named for his parents.

There is enough documented evidence to form this conclusion whereas we have pretty much nothing to support the Thomas theory.

Hope that helps clear things up a little.

Ian

[Deleted]

CT

I was really meaning that I have in my possession next to no data relating to this family that I could possibly offer to assist your thought processes. I only have the few baptisms and burials that are noted above.

I think your summary is very logical ;)and does seem to fit with the entries I have in my database. This is the last Thomas that I have outstanding from that general era and therefore if this is not the son of John, then I don't know what happened to the real one.

A couple of things then. It may be fair to suggest that this Thomas also had a son Thomas - based on an entry for a baptism for John Quick 8/10/1732 in Camborne, son of Thomas. It can't be the elder Thomas because he had popped his cloggs in 1727. I do not have a baptism for this younger Thomas. The older Thomas already had a son John (bap 1707) so younger John must be a new person- or it is a red herring??

Secondly, one from left field.

I have Cornwall QUICK's who were in Barbados during the civil war there
>1650 - 1652 and returned to Cornwall. I also have this Thomas's son
>another Thomas QUICK who went off to the Bahamas to help suppress the
>pirates in 1718, which indicates that there were adventurers in the
>family. [I spend much of my time in the West Indies by the way, because
>we used to live there, and still have a house to take care of in Antigua,
>so I'm able to hop around the islands and get some research in.]
>You mention a Thomas who witnesses a will...he could sign his name then?
>and read a little....most rare in those days, when very, very few people
>were able to sign their names.

Found this some time ago on the web. Maybe there was another Thomas somewhere.

Lannanta

[Cornish Terrier]

No 'red herring' I don't think - I found that entry for young John and also have no other record of his father Thomas.

As per my earlier note:-

Checked baptisms up until 1760 and found two more which might be of passing interest.

8th October 1732 John s/o Thomas Quick

Was Thomas an as yet unfound son of the subject of this thread??

8th May 1748 Jane d/o Elizabeth Hocking - reputed father James Quick

Okay - now we have a stray James in the mix.

Notice we also have a stray James crept in under our guard.

Hmmm! just checked the list of James Quicks in my database and found something that made me think.

There were Quicks over at Probus back in those days and they may need to be investigated.

I did not 'travel' that far East the other night but some checking will need to be done to see if there is any indication some of them might have gotten themselves involved further West at any time.

The particular family that came up was:-

Edward QUICK of Probus
m. 1st July 1695 at Cornelly
Mary LUKE of Probus

I have four kids for them (all this from IGI) - Mary, James, John and Edward.

I might have a check around and see what 'reliable' information is available for that area.

CT

[Deleted]

CT

I understand the logic that leads the Camborne Thomas being the son of John and the brother of Richard as you describe. At the moment I have the same Thomas as the husband of Jane Jones and children:

Edward M Bap 10/5/1695 Morvah Thomas
Ann F Bap 21/5/1697 Morvah Thomas
Thomas M Bap 4/3/1702 Gulval Thomas
Franciscus M Bap 7/6/1703 Gulval Thomas
Maria F Bap 9/10/1704 Gulval Thomas
Unnamed M Bap 21/6/1707 Ludgvan Thomas
Arthur M Bap 15/8/1709 Madron Thomas

Do you have these children placed elsewhere?

Lannanta

[Cornish Terrier]

BLIMEY - You are quite right. I had completely forgotten him and really should have checked over all my old work.

Now there is a problem.

Are the two groups of children of any use to us must be one question - and the answer is 'yes' and 'no'.

Thomas at Camborne named children Richard, John and Elizabeth which equates very well with him being the son of John and Elizabeth Towednack

Thomas and Jane at Morvah and Gulval on the other hand never had a John or an Elizabeth.
Their first two children seem to be obviously named after the parents of Ann Jones and then we have a Thomas.
Francis is the only really familiar name in this group but ...

Back to the drawing board I think.

[Cornish Terrier]

Lannanta - been mulling over this problem and it is 'giving me the irrits' so to speak.

But there has been something nagging at me .......

From the deep, dark recesses of my mind a recollection is haunting me and I just cannot pinpoint exactly all the details.

I seem to recall something about Camborne, a Will I think, and a reference to Towednack.

And I keep thinking of only two names associated with this memory - Thomas Curnow and Thomas QUICK.

I am positive the reference was Camborne and it would have to have been one of the two families mentioned, Curnow or Quick, as they were the two families I was working on at the time.

For the life of me I just cannot think where in my files (if you can call them that) this reference would be.

IF I find it and it does indeed turn out to be Thomas Quick then a lot of thinking will need to be done.

Meanwhile, I have been searching through a folder of Quick notes and found a couple of other references that might be interesting so will check them a little more thoroughly and then probably post some information and thoughts for your perusal.

A very frustrated CT

[Cornish Terrier]

Unfortunately I have still not found the item I am looking for - however I did come across something else a little interesting while going through some old correspondence I had with Kathe.

She pointed out at the time that there was quite a bit of to-ing and fro-ing between Towednack and Gwithian and that comment may help us out a little.

Emblyn d/o Thomas and Zenobia Quick was married at Gwithian to John Roberts who, at the time of marriage, was a 'yeoman' of Towednack yet had been baptised at Gwithian.

Their son John married (record not yet found) Mary Curnow and their eldest son, Richard, married twice at Gwithian.

The first marriage was to Ann Cock whose neice Ann married William Trewhella at Towednack.

Remembering that Gwithian and Camborne are neighbours and there was the Gwithian/Towednack thing happening then .....

Emblyn Quick was married in 1658 as 'daughter of Thomas Wicke decd.' but there is no mention of Towednack which 'may' suggest that Thomas Quick was not unknown in the area.

This then gives us at least a tenuous link with Camborne - especially as Thomas Quick of that Parish baptised a daughter at Gwithian.

There is a generation separating the marriage of Emblyn and the appearance of Thomas at Camborne but ....

All merely 'food for thought' at the moment as we still have two Thomas Quicks around at the same time - one at Morvah/Gulval and one at Camborne/Gwithian.

And now here is another little item that I had long forgotten about.

On the 10th November 1686 Jasper PAULE married Mary QUICK at Gulval.

From what I can find Jasper was baptised in 1656 and he and Mary had only three children that I am able to find.

Unless Jasper and Mary died before 1700 they were not buried at Gulval but the question is - just where does Mary QUICK fit into the picture.

Was she a sister of Thomas?
Or was she perhaps a daughter of Anthony Quick who had known ties with Gulval through marriage.

Just a little more for you to think about - I might as well share my headache with someone.

[Cornish Terrier]

And here is some more food for thought.

I have just looked over some information that suggests the strong possibility that I may have another Thomas Quick incorrectly assigned.

I think there are a number of Thomas Quicks we are dealing with here.

1. The 'phantom' son of Thomas and Zenobia
2. Thomas s/o Anthony and Elizabeth (Randal)
3. Thomas of Camborne
4. Thomas s/o Francis and Elizabeth (Paule)
5. Thomas married Prudence c. 1675
6. Thomas married Jane Jones c. 1694
7. Thomas bp. Towednack 1664 s/o John

The case for the son of Thomas and Zenobia seems to be gathering strength even though I know of no documentary evidence to support it.

Numbers 2, 4 and 7 are known to exist because we do have documentary proof and we know who their parents were.

So numbers 3, 5 and 6 are probably our main concern.
We know they existed because they married and had children but the problem with them is that we do not know which families they belong to.

6. Thomas, husband of Jane Jones, has been up until now assigned as the child baptised at Towednack in 1664 to John Quick but I now have doubts about this - mainly because there is nothing in the naming of his children to support it.

3. Thomas of Camborne could very well have been the son of John and the names of his children would support that link.

5. Thomas with wife Prudence (unknown) - for many years I have had this fellow linked as the son of Francis and Elizabeth but now have real cause to believe this might be incorrect.

Looking through some of the Quick Wills of the period has prompted a re-think on this last Thomas in particular.

Francis Quick left his Will in 1689 and named sons Israel, Matthew, James, Francis, Thomas and Paul along with daughter Edna.

He mentioned children of Israel and Matthew and named Edna as wife of Adrian Stevens.
From this I interpret that none of the remaining sons were married or, if they were, they had no children.

The Thomas Quick who was married to Prudence had four known children - Zenobia (m. 1695 so probably born early 1670's), Prudence bp. 1679, Thomas bp 1683 and Martha bp. 1686.

If this Thomas were son of Francis then surely these children would have been mentioned in the Will.

One other Will is particularly interesting in this scenario and that is the Will of Paul Quick, son of Francis and Elizabeth, dated 1710.

Paul names, among others, his 'kinsman Thomas Quick of St Ives' as an executor.

I am beginning to think that 'kinsman Thomas Quick' may in fact be the husband of Prudence.
Thomas was buried at Towednack in 1717 but his last child was baptised at St Ives, his wife remarried at St Ives and the three children that married all did so at St Ives.

So if this Thomas was not son of Francis then who was he?
Possibly the son of John but that now gives us three possibilities.
James never had a son named Thomas so his family is out.
And Anthony's son Thomas died in 1703 without having married.

I won't add more to this confusion right now but I would like some feedback and thoughts on this.

Meantime I am going to get some sleep very soon and will take a fresh look at the whole problem tomorrow after which I hope to be able to make things a little more clear.

[Cornish Terrier]

Lannanta - I think it might be worth bringing this discussion back to the fore and having another look at it.

As noted during the text I am still not happy with the links of the various Thomas Quicks.

CT

[Hardy]

That was such an interesting thread that just seems to have petered out in 2008.

Up until reading through this mystery adventure I had scenarios 4 & 6 in respect of Thomas son of Francis & Elizabeth (Paule) and Thomas married to Jane Jones as being the same Thomas.

Sept 9, 2008 11:58:46 GMT -5 Cornish Terrier said:

4. Thomas s/o Francis and Elizabeth (Paule)

6. Thomas married Jane Jones c. 1694


6. Thomas, husband of Jane Jones, has been up until now assigned as the child baptised at Towednack in 1664 to John Quick but I now have doubts about this - mainly because there is nothing in the naming of his children to support it.


Francis Quick left his Will in 1689 and named sons Israel, Matthew, James, Francis, Thomas and Paul along with daughter Edna.

He mentioned children of Israel and Matthew and named Edna as wife of Adrian Stevens.
From this I interpret that none of the remaining sons were married or, if they were, they had no children.

The thought that 4 & 6 are the same Thomas fits in with the will scenario as the first of Thomas & Jane's children Edward is born in 1695.

Is this where the current thinking is at??

Peter

[Cornish Terrier]

It is probably a couple of years since I last looked at this lot but as my database stands at the moment I have the husband of Jane Jones as being the son of Francis Quick. That is the only scenario that seems to make sense.

I also have the husband of Prudence as the son of Thomas and Zenobia but I am still not totally comfortable about it. The fact he named a daughter Zenobia is certainly suggestive and she was probably born in the mid-1670s but that would then mean that Thomas was 'getting on' a bit when he married.
There is mention in the Rosewall Deposition (1680) of a Thomas Quick age about 34 who would have been born about 1646 so he would very likely be this man. The difficulty here is with the known timeline of Thomas and Zenobia given we have a record from the Bishops Transcripts of a daughter baptized about 1622 or 1623. If my tentative conclusion is correct then Thomas must have been the youngest child and up to about five years younger than his next sibling and Zenobia would have been possibly in her mid-40s.

On the available information those are the most logical solutions to the problem but there must still be some lingering doubts - at least for now.

Currently the only Thomas Quicks I have not been able to identify satisfactorily are 1. Thomas at Camborne who, by process of elimination, seems most likely to be the son of John and Elizabeth of Towednack and 2. the Thomas who married Elizabeth Nichols at Madron in 1747/8 who now appears likely to have been the son of Thomas and Bridget baptized 1728/9 at Penzance.

CT