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Post by Sarch on Dec 13, 2009 9:33:53 GMT -5
Hi Mary I went to have a look at my notes as I have not re-inputted all back once again into database as yet. For William Thomas Carpenter of Boswednack Zennor bap 4 Aug 1776 Zennor - married twice - 1st to Christian Eddy 3 Nov 1800 and 2nd to Christian Mitchell 22 Nov 1817 I have 23 children for the man 1st marriage to Christian EddyWilliam b 27 Mar 1801 died 9 Oct 1822 unmarried John b 31 Dec 1802 unmarried Catherine born 8 Feb 1804 Elizabeth b 26 Mar 1805 unmarried Thomas b 9 Mar 1807 Matthew b 8 Nov 1808 - died young Matthew b 14 Mar 1811 married Mary Banfield and had 9 children Christiana b 12 Jan 1813 d 12 Feb 1838 unmarried Hannibal b 3 Jul 1815 2nd marriage to Christian MitchellMary b 2 Aug 1818 married Thomas Thomas of Zennor Kitty b 6 Sep 1819 married John Stevens of Zennor Jane b 14 Feb 1821 married J. Pearce of Lelant and had 9 children William born 14 Oct 1822 married Catherine Thomas of Zennor Charity b 18 Jul 1824 married A Trembath of St Just Ann b 22 Jun 1826 unmarried Hannah b 10 Jun 1828 married Henry Bone of Zennor had 11 children Ruth b 19 Jun 1830 married W Shepherd (or Shedford) had 7 children Grace b 22 Dec 181 married W Jenkin of St Just Emma b 16 Apr 1833 unmarried - still living in 1922 last survivor of the familyRoseanna b 13 Jun 11835 - unmarried - Wellington - went abroad Eliza b 11 Feb 1837 married M Trenbath of Zennor Naomi b 10 Sep 1839 married W Christopher of lelant Orpah b 27 Apr 1841 d 1843 in fever epidemic Ref PAS Pool gives for the above is Henry Quick's broadsheet, first printed 1838 and "The Thomas family of Zennor" by G.J. Anderson 1922. Regards Sarch
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Post by Sarch on Dec 13, 2009 10:08:23 GMT -5
Hi Mary The connection of the Quicks to Sir Henry Irving 1838-1905 is through Elizabeth Ninnes and Sarah Ninnes daughters of John Ninnes and Jane Quick (who was the daughter of Matthew Quick and Sarah Major) I have a ref that there is no baptism record to prove that Elizabeth Ninnes is the daughter of John Ninnes and Jane Q - if proof has been found pse let me know Henry Quick (father of Henry Q Zennor Poet) married (his first cousin -not proved) Elizabeth Ninnes The relationship I have between Henry Quick above and Jane Quick mother of Elizabeth Ninnes, is that Henry Q is Jane's nephew. Henry Quick's father Isaac Quick and Jane Quick were brother and sister i.e children of Matthew Quick 1655 - 1728 and Sarah Major 1659 -1724 Sarah Ninnes 1733-1790 m in 1756 to Paul Curnow 1731-1791 Their daughter Catherine Curnow m in 1796 to Thomas Behenna 1765-1839 Their daughter Mary Behenna 1808-1869 married in 1835 to Samuel Broadribb 1802-1876 Their son John Henry Broadribb 1838-1905 became Sir Henry Irving Thomas Behenna 1765-1839 was the son of Isaac Behenna and Elizabeth Behenna Mary Behenna 1808-1869 had a sister Sarah Behenna who married Isaac Penberthy 1706-1849 Regards Sarch
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Post by white on Dec 13, 2009 12:23:17 GMT -5
Hi Mary, Only one difference in your info. Mary Thomas, who married Nicholas White 11 feb.1823 at St.Levan was the daughter of Matthew Thomas and Charity Christopher. She bapt.31 july 1799 at Zennor. Same clan in the end. Roy
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Post by marychown on Dec 13, 2009 12:39:37 GMT -5
Hello Sarch,
Very many thanks for all the information that you have provided me with - it's greatly appreciated and I will now be able to fill in the gaps in my records.
I have had a hunt around in the loft today and have unearthed my copy of 'The Life and Progress of Henry Quick of Zennor' edited by P.A.S. Pool, which I shall read once again this evening!
I remember Peter Pool well. When I was a pupil at Penzance Grammar School for Girls in the 1960's, he came and addressed us on local history several times. I remember that on one occasion all of us teenagers had a real giggle because he turned up in his full blue bard's robes and head dress. Funny, how memories suddenly come flooding back!
Anyway, once again very many thanks.
Kind regards,
Mary
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Post by marychown on Dec 13, 2009 13:03:13 GMT -5
Hello Roy,
Many thanks for the information. I think I must have got confused because Hannibal Thomas was a witness at the marriage of Mary Thomas and Nicholas White at St. Levan on 11 Feb 1823 and, as the marriage was at St. Levan, I presumed that it was Mary Thomas daughter of Hannibal Thomas and Jane Quick.
BTW, the other Mary Thomas, baptised 31 July 1799 at Zennor is also in my tree. Her mother, Charity Christopher, was I believe a daughter of Nicholas Christopher and Charity Thomas. Charity's younger sister Elizabeth Christopher (bapt. 27 Dec 1778 at Zennor) married Richard Nicholls at Zennor on 8 August 1801. These were my 3xgreat-grandparents on my father's side. Their son, William Nicholls (bapt. at Zennor 19 June 1809) married Catherine Thomas, daughter of Hannibal Thomas and Jane Quick. Another son of theirs John Nicholls (baptised at Zennor 13 June 1819) married Catherine's younger sister Hannah Thomas.
With all the intermarrying that went on between all those families, it is so very hard to keep track of things! As you so rightly put it - same clan in the end!
Kind regards,
Mary
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Post by Sarch on Dec 13, 2009 13:39:54 GMT -5
Hi Mary Wow how wonderful to have actually met Peter Pool. Peter's wife Audrey is the one who sent me a copy of his notes on the Thomas family (23 children amazing! How do you feed them all?) and the Quick connection to Sir Henry Irving Regards Sarch
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Post by marychown on Dec 13, 2009 15:49:26 GMT -5
Hello again Sarch,
Yes, I do indeed remember well both the late Peter Pool and his wife Audrey. They were very well known around West Cornwall. I remember Peter giving us school girls talks on the archaeology of West Penwith and on the Cornish language. Small world what with you knowing Audrey. Later, I remember using Peter's 'Cornish for Beginners' in my study of the language.
All the best,
Regards,
Mary
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Post by Sarch on Dec 13, 2009 23:22:18 GMT -5
Hi Mary
I have never met Mrs Pool, I happened to enquire about PAS Pool's notes on the Henry Quick connection to Sir Henry Irving, via email to the Morrab Library on the day that Mrs Pool happened to visit and the Librarian passed my email on to her!
Regards
Sarch
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Post by Cornish Terrier on Dec 14, 2009 1:54:46 GMT -5
Re: Elizabeth Ninnes I currently show no parents or baptism for Elizabeth and it is difficult to see where she might fit into the family of John Ninnes and Jane Quick. Her last child was baptised in 1773 although possibly born a couple of years before that. Working on a birth in the same year then Elizabeth would be most unlikely to have been born before 1724 which would have made her 48 when this child was born. The family of John and Jane Ninnes is as follows:- Thomas 1722-1722 John 1722-1722 Jane 1724-1795 John 1725-1725 Sarah died 1727 Mary 1728- William 1731- Thomas died 1732 John 1732- Sarah 1733-1790 James 1738- Sarah died in 1727 so was born that year or possibly 1726 which means there is no possible gap until about 1729. Thomas died in 1732 and must have been born about 1729 or 1730 given that William was baptised in 1731 and John baptised in 1732. The only possible place Elizabeth might therefore fit would be between Sarah (1733) and James (1738). Next consideration is that she was married in December 1753. Sarah was baptised in October 1733 so if Elizabeth belonged to this family her birth would not have occurred before the latter half of 1734 and probably not before 1735 which would then have made her about 19 at marriage. If born early 1737 she would have been 16 at marriage. So we are looking at approximately 1735 to 1736/7 as the only likely birthdate for Elizabeth. All known events for children of John and Jane Ninnes occurred at Towednack so, whilst possible, it seems extremely unlikely that Elizabeth would have been born or baptised in another Parish. Now - a read through the Hoblyn Transcript of baptisms for Towednack is interesting. Through the 1730's baptisms at Towednack occurred at a rate of between six and and nine with a spike of thirteen in 1731. But the interesting year is 1735. There are two baptisms recorded for that year and then occurs the following note:- "Here follows a blank space, wherein ten entries could have been recorded, lines having been ruled on the page." But no entries were recorded! This then would appear to be the ONLY time when Elizabeth Ninnes might have been baptised should she have been a daughter of John and Jane Ninnes. CONCLUSION:- Unless Elizabeth was baptised between August 1735 and 25th March 1736 (with any baptisms in that time going unrecorded for some reason) then I would have to conclude that it is impossible for her to have been a daughter of John and Jane Ninnes. I think the only way we might find the answer to this is if BTs survive for this period and the entry might be found there. CT
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Post by Sarch on Dec 14, 2009 2:14:50 GMT -5
Hi CT Wonderful detective work on possible baptism dates for Elizabeth Ninnes Sarch
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Post by marychown on Dec 14, 2009 4:34:24 GMT -5
Hello Sarch,
I forgot to mention in my replies to you yesterday about G J Anderson author of 'The Thomas Family of Zennor' 1922. To the best of my knowledge he was Gilbert John Anderson who was the husband of a direct descendant of Matthew Thomas (1714) of Treen and his wife Ann Roberts. G.J Anderson's wife was Ann Thomas (1894). I think that his wife Ann was Ann Thomas (baptised at Zennor 5 Aug 1894) who was the daughter of Benjamin Thomas (Farmer) and Catherine of Treen. I also believe that Benjamin Thomas was Benjamin Thomas (born at St. Levan 1849 and bapt. at St. Buryan 31 March 1850) and his wife Elizabeth Prowse. I think that this Benjamin Thomas was the son of John Thomas (bapt. at Zennor 27 Feb 1805 s/o Hannibal Thomas and Jane Quick) and he was therefore descended from Matthew Thomas and Ann Roberts through John Thomas (1737) and his wife Mary Thomas.
I think that Catherine, wife of Benjamin Thomas, was Catherine Jane Thomas (bapt. at Zennor on 21 July 1861 d/o Matthew Thomas (1819) and Elizabeth Berryman) and that she too was also a direct descendant of Matthew Thomas and Ann Roberts through John Thomas (1767) and his wife Mary Thomas. Benjamin Thomas and Catherine Thomas were Thomas cousins. OPC Marriage Record: 13 Aug 1881 Benjamin Thomas, full age, bachelor, farmer of Treen (Father John Thomas, farmer) and Catherine Thomas, full age, spinster of Carmellow (Father Matthew Thomas, farmer). Witnesses: John Thomas and Matthew Thomas.
I remember when I was in my early teens being taken by my father to the home of a Mrs. Angwin at St. Just who was also a descendant of Matthew and Ann. She had a gigantic family tree of at least 1000 names, but with few dates and no details, which showed the descendants of Matthew Thomas and Ann Roberts. I recall that my grandfather Walter Henry Nicholls and his siblings were on the tree (he was a grandson of William Nicholls and Catherine Thomas) and I seem to remember that the tree also included my father John Nicholls and his siblings, but I may well be wrong in that. I am wondering whether the tree which I was shown is the same one as that drawn up by Gilbert John Anderson, because I know that he produced a very detailed descendants chart of Matthew Thomas and Ann Roberts as well as his book on the Thomas family. At the time my father and I copied by hand our own direct descent which has proved to be invaluable over the years.
Kind regards,
Mary
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Post by Cornish Terrier on Dec 14, 2009 7:10:29 GMT -5
My mistake - there is one other way we might determine the answer.
If one of Elizabeth's parents or siblings or, perhaps, grandparents left a Will which mentioned Elizabeth wife of Henry Quick as daughter, sister or grandaughter that would also tell us.
CT
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Post by Cornish Terrier on Feb 9, 2016 4:21:19 GMT -5
Hopefully I can now tidy up an annoying loose end regarding the identity of Elizabeth Ninnes wife of Henry Quick. After more work on the Quick family and carefully sifting through the available information I have determined that the following is the baptism for Henry's wife:-
Elizabeth daughter of Thomas and Jone Ninnes baptised 21st September 1727 St Ives
The name of the mother definitely appears to be 'Jone' in both the register (which is very difficult to read) and the Bishops Transcripts however the appropriate marriage I should think is this one from the St Ives Parish Register:-
Tho: Nines and Jane Wms were married at Lelant Church 11th November 1714
This entry does not appear in the St Ives BTs and unfortunately I have not yet been able to see a copy of the Lelant BTs for 1714 but the names are quite clear in the St Ives register.
Elizabeth wife of Henry Quick was buried at Towednack 31st August 1801 but, again unfortunately, no age was recorded.
CT
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