William Quick, born St Ives c.1841

[letresha]

Hi everyone! As a newbie to the wonderful world of tracking down your ancestors, I'm finding it both wonderful and frustrating. Anything you are able to contribute will be very welcome - it's quite difficult to do from this side of the world! My great, great grandfather was William Quick,born St Ives c. 1841.

William seems to come from a family of 8, all from the st ives area - Richard (born c. 1829), John (c1831), Christiana (c. 1832), Elizabeth (c. 1834), Alice (c. 1831), Paul (c. 1838) and Catherine (c. 1845). Seems to be son of Richard (c 1811) and Alice (c. 1806), nephew of Paul (c. 1806) and grandson of Elizabeth (c.1781). I can't be certain of any of this, however.

This William Quick shows up in the Llanengan 1881 Census (in North Wales) as Lead Miner, 6 Children. He lived in Dolgellau, Wales, in 1871. I can trace the story from there - kind of - but would really appreciate any help that could be given to shed more light on his family in/near St Ives.

[white]

Hi Newbie, and welcome.
Quick family starters for you.
1841 at Chyanchy, St.Ives.
Elizabeth Quick born about 1781
Paul Q. born abt.1806
Alice Q. born abt.1806
Richard Q. born abt.1829
John Q. born abt. 1831
Christiana Q. born abt.1832
Elizabeth Q. born abt.1834
Paul Q. born abt. 1838
William Q. born abt 1839 (shown as 10 months)
Remember that the dates are aprox. see the 1851 census.
1851 at Buners Hill, St.Ives
Paul born 1803 at St.Ives Tin miner
Alice (wife) born 1803 at Uny Lelant
John (son) born 1830 at St. Ives
Christiana (dau) born 1832 at St.Ives
Paul (son) born 1838 at St. Ives
William (son) born 1840 at St.Ives
Catherine (dau) born 1845 at St.Ives
Mother of Paul, Elizabeth, was still alive in 1851 lining next door.
So you need a marriage for Paul Quick to an Alice about 1829.
Paul was bapt. 6th. feb. 1803 at St.Ives.
He was the son of Richard and Elizabeth.
Richard Quick married Elizabeth Daniel 16th. aug.1798 at St.Ives.
Richard was bapt.20th. sept.1772 at St.Ives.
He was the son of Richard Quick and Honour Jenkin.
They married 8th apr. 1770 at St.Ives.
This should help to give you a decent start.
Bset wishes from a grey S.Wales, Roy

[letresha]

Hi Roy.

Thanks very much for that.

I have spent a fair bit of time today trying to track all this down, and it marries up with info from lots of others. The one thing I'm a bit concerned about now, however, is that one person had my William b. 1840 marrying someone else in Cornwall before he shows up in Wales.

It's possible, but now I'm a bit concerned that I've got some incorrect information. The William Quick, Miner, born St Ives 1840, that I'm following shows up in 1881 census in Wales, married to an Elizabeth, with children Thomas, Maria, William, Elizabeth, John and Ann.

I've had so much trouble tracking the Quick family in north Wales. Do you have any further info on William Quick, born St Ives 1840? I have looked through several census records and can't find more than one, so thought I had the right one.

[cornishmaid]

Hi Letresha, and a big welcome to the site

Could you possibly give us the details of the census returns you have found of William and his family in Wales? There may be nothing extra to be found from them, but it gives us a starting point.

The marriage that White mentioned of a Paul Quick to an Alice, I believe is the marriage on 20 March 1828 of Paul Quick to Alice Hosking in St Ives. I have the baptism dates of most of their children if you would like them.

Now, the only William Quick I can find baptised in St Ives around 1840 was William Daniel Quick, son of Paul and Alice as stated previously. It is quite possible he moved to Wales as a lead miner; his father Paul was also a miner. However, I found a marriage of a Henrietta Quick who married Abraham Craze in 1898 in St Ives, whose father is listed as William Daniel Quick, Fisherman . This may be another William Daniel Quick, or he may have changed occupation.. but just thought I'd throw this into the melting pot.

As Allen said, hopefully our resident expert Cornish Terrier should be able to tell you more when he gets back

[londoner]

A different William Quick and I think the one you want -
in 1891 your William is still in Wales Llanengan- widower, his eldest son is Thomas 1871 and eldest daughter Maria Jane 1873, his place of birth says "Gonnor"
Now in Zennor 1851 at Tregerthen we have:
Agnes Quick 7
Jane Quick 14
Mariah Quick 36
Mary M Quick 9
Nanny Quick 4
Thomas Quick 41
Thomas Quick 12
William Quick 11
Knowing the traditional Cornish naming pattern I suggest that this is your William
1861 he is lodging in Halsetown at the home of Nicholas Curnow, occ. tin miner
1871 Wales census has William at Llanengan but aged 39!(Mine agent)
Also in 1871 at Bala Merioneth (11b 675 ) William Quick m Elizabeth Evans.
William Daniel Quick of St Ives marries Mary N ? abt 1863 1st child Mary b1864 according to 1871 census
Hope this helps - Lesley

[cornishmaid]

I have to concur with you Lesley and say that this is much more likely to be the William we are looking for, especially with the naming pattern. The St Ives William Quick did seem to stay in St Ives, and there are no William Quicks of the right period baptised in Towednack. Will try and have another look at this later if I get a bit more time, though it does seem that progress is indeed being made ;D

[letresha]

Hi Everyone, thanks so much for your help. I really appreciate it as its quite difficult to do this from overseas.

This is the info from the Llanengan 1881 census that gives William Quick born c. 1840/1 in St Ives:

Dwelling: Rhen Post Abersoch
Census Place: Llanengan, Caernarvon, Wales
Marr Age Sex Birthplace
William QUICK M 41 M St Ives, Cornwall, England
Rel: Head
Occ: Lead Miner
Elizh. QUICK M 38 F Llanelltyd, Merioneth, Wales
Rel: Wife
Thomas QUICK U 10 M Dolgelley, Merioneth, Wales
Rel: Son
Occ: Scholar
Maria Jane QUICK U 8 F Llanengan, Caernarvon, Wales
Rel: Daur
Occ: Scholar
William F. QUICK U 7 M Llanrhaiad Rymnochnant, Denbigh, Wales
Rel: Son
Occ: Scholar
Elizh. QUICK U 6 F Llanengan, Caernarvon, Wales
Rel: Daur
Occ: Home Youth
John QUICK U 2 M Llanengan, Caernarvon, Wales
Rel: Son
Occ: Home Youth
Ann QUICK U 3 w F Llanengan, Caernarvon, Wales
Rel: Daur
Occ: Home Youth


I'm descended from the William F. Quick seen here at age 7. I think you are probably right, that he comes from the Zennor family. Hopefully it will be possible to trace these guys back further - I was becoming attached to the other family, though, and will miss them :-(

Would anyone have any further info on this Zennor Quick family?

[letresha]

Also, could someone explain the naming pattern that you're referring to? Or point me to an explanation?

[cornishmaid]

Hi

Will tackle the naming pattern bit first. From 1750 to 1875 ish lots of families used the following pattern when naming their children:

The first son was named after the father's father
the second son after the mother's father,
the third son after the father,
the fourth son after the father's eldest brother,

the first daughter after the mother's mother,
the second daughter after the father's mother,
the third daughter after the mother,
the fourth daughter after the mother's eldest sister

Of course there were always exceptions to the rule, but generally you will see that the above was used the majority of the time.

You and I could have had completely different names if this rule was still adhered to today .

If you go to:
www.cornwall-opc.org/Resc/naming_patterns.php
you will find some more information.

Hope this helps

Oh, and often children were given the maiden name of the mother as a middle name. This often provides a good clue as to parentage

[cornishmaid]

I'm afraid I don't have anything that I could put my hand on straight away that would help with your Zennor Quick family.

There are some websites which may be helpful:
www.genuki.org.uk/big/eng/Cornwall/Zennor/
West Penwith Resources:
www.west-penwith.org.uk/zennor.htm
Family History Online
OPC Database for Cornwall
Family Search LDS (but you need to check any details found)

Also, I live close to the Cornwall Centre and they hold the following transcripts for Zennor:
Baptisms 1599-1837
Marriages 1617-1812 and 1813-1837
Burials 1713-1837 and 1813-1837
If you need any information from these transcriptions just let me know and I'll see if I can find anything.

Am surrounded by paperwork here at the moment, but will try to have a look at your Zennor Quick family as soon as I can.

[trencrom]

cornishmaid said:

Of course there were always exceptions to the rule, but generally you will see that the above was used the majority of the time.

I have to respectfully disagree -- I can't recall seeing this "rule" rigidly adhered to in the majority of my Cornish ancestral families. Also, at least one Penwith researcher I know of has claimed an alternate pattern existing whereby the eldest son and daughter were named after the parents rather than after the grandparents! I have also seen genealogical reference works claiming that the same naming pattern given in the OPC link (minus the component pertaining to names of eldest brothers and sisters) applies for Scottish families as well, and yet while I have numerous Scottish forebears, out of them all just one family and then only in one generation seems to have "properly" followed the textbook pattern! The rest of them certainly used family given names which of course included those of the parents and/or grandparents, but without any obvious order of choice of name being used. eg I have seen in one case the eldest son being named after the father's father, the second eldest after the wife's brother, the third eldest after the wife's father, and so on. I have also seen children named after sisters-in-law in both 17th century Cornwall and 19th century Scotland.

For these reasons I think it is probably better for folk to just look for occurrences of the same names within possible successive generations of a particular family, rather than the order of those names. Don't forget also that the same given names might appear on both the father and the mother's sides, so we need to be careful when drawing conclusions from onomastics.

cornishmaid said:

Oh, and often children were given the maiden name of the mother as a middle name. This often provides a good clue as to parentage

A middle given name at this time is usually a name from an earlier female line -- often that will be the mother's maiden name as claimed, but not always. One of my forebears had a middle name which was not her mother's maiden name but her father's mother's maiden name.

[letresha]

Well, this is where I've gotten to so far. Any help appreciated, Cornishmaid!

It appears that Thomas Quick, born c 1810, married Hannah ? c 1806, and had Jane c 1836, Thomas c 1838, William c 1840 and Mary c 1842.

He then married Maria/Mariah c. 1815 and had Agnes c 1845, Nanny c 1847 and John c 1851.

In 1841 census family at Tregarthen. 1851 census at Tregarthen.

1851 census I can find agnes working in one house, St Ives, 21,Trelayan,1,John Glasson,Head,M,60,,Blacksmith & Victular,Lelant Cornwall,,
,,,Agnes Quick,Servnt,U,,16,Housemaid,Zennor Cornwall,,

and William at another

28,Trowan,1,Nicholas Curnow,Head,M,50,,Tin Miner,Madron Cornwall,,
,,,William Quick,Boardr,U,20,,Tin Miner,Zennor Cornwall,,


and Thomas possibly married and still at Tregarthen:
47,Bussow Downs,1,Thomas Quick,Head,M,22,,Tin Miner,Zennor Cornwall,,
,,,Elizabeth Quick,Wife,M,,20,,Towednack Cornwall,,
,,,Maria Jane Quick,Dau,,,9m,,Towednack Cornwall,,
,,,Elizabeth Quick,Dau,,,9m,,Towednack Cornwall,,

The rest of the family is in "Back Street" St Ives, with Thomas and Maria, daughter Nanny and son John, but now also another boy listed as "son" - John Pearce born c. 1847 (or similiar last name, I really can't understand the writing), and another girl listed as "daughter" Alice Pearce c 1854. Might this have been some sort of adoption?

in the 1871 census, the children of thomas and maria are all iving together in st ives:

Parish S.IVES; District 9; Schedule 127

Position Marital
Name in Family Status Age
QUICK, JOHN Head U 20
QUICK, AGNES Sister U 26
QUICK, NANNY Sister U 24

and william has moved to Llanengan in Wales, but I've lost track of Jane and Mary.

Does anyone know more of this family - Thomas and Hannah's marriage, Thomas and Maria's marriage, maiden names, deaths etc. where the different family members went?

There was also a series of deaths of Quicks recorded for Tregarthen, which may or may not be related to this family:
7 Apr 1850 John Quick of Tregurthen aged 5 months
13 Sep 1855 James Quick of Tregurthen aged 10 weeks
11 May 1860 Elizabeth Quick Phillips of Tregurthen aged 3 months
25 Dec 1862 Ann Quick of Tregurthen aged 10 months
20 Nov 1883 William Henry Quick of Tregurthen aged 17
14 Mar 1895 Alice Quick of Tregarten aged 76


again, anything at all much appreciated. It would be wonderful to trace my family back to the 1600s.

Cheers from Oz! Letresha

[cornishmaid]

Mm, anyone who respectfully disagrees usually means the opposite . Maybe my families were sticklers for rules or something. But the main thing is this naming strategy is a starting point for someone to have a basis from which to work from. I don't usually take it as read that anything is "set in stone", but recurrence of names in a family is a good indicator that you're looking at a connected family.

Hope it helped a bit anyway Letresha. Will have a look at your latest, and try my best to help. I usually just muddle along, learning along the way. Hopefully the more experienced genealogical members of this board can set us on the right tracks.

[letresha]

Hi!

Overnight I recieved some information from another Quick family member, who was able to give me the lineage back to Thomas and Zenobia Quick of the late 1500s/early 1600s. So I'll work through all of that and then maybe come back to you with some more questions, if that's ok.

By the way, is there some spot on the net where everyone here puts in their family tree, so we can all see the linkages? I've been finding some distant relatives on genesreunited.com, but noone so far who has anyone in common after about 1650.

Thanks again! L

[Cornish Terrier]

???The Coasters had a song back around 1958 about a character called 'Charlie Brown' and one of the notable lines is:-

"Why is everybody always picking on me?"

By Crikey - I reckon I can relate to poor old Charlie Brown. ;D

I have just briefly read through all notes relating to this subject and have decided to print all messages and have a good look before I 'pen' a proper reply.

I already notice a few things that I may be able to correct or help with but I really need to have a decent look through things before doing so.

For now I will merely pass comment on the 'naming pattern' segment as it is reasonably easy.

All are pretty much correct in what they have said although I am not really sure of that the 'time-period' involved was restricted to the dates (or thereabouts) as espoused.

Certainly, in some families, from the early 1600's and, in general, through the late 1800's, there was a tendency to follow the naming pattern (or something close) that has been discussed.

However my research of the Trewhella family and, indeed, sections of the West Penwith Curnow family, brings to light some other alternatives.

Martin Trewhella married Alice Phillips at Zennor in 1688.

Alice was daughter of Francis and Jane Phillips and Martin has been determined to have been the son of Thomas and Katherine Trewhella.

Their first son was named WILLIAM (a name not known in this branch of the family unless you go back to St Erth in the very early 1600's)
There was then a son named Thomas (after Martin's father I presume).

The next child, a daughter, was named MARY which was a name not known in either the Trewhella or Phillips family at that time to my knowledge.

We then find Martin (d. young), Martin, Alice, Jane, CHRISTOPHER, Catharine and Catherine.

CHRISTOPHER should be discussed elsewhere as it deals with Helston and connections to Christopher Cock.

However - Martin Trewhella has been determined to be son of THOMAS and KATHERINE whilst Alice is certainly (from Wills) the daughter of FRANCIS and JANE.

Their first son (and eldest child) was named WILLIAM (1689) and their first daughter was named MARY (1692).

Knowing, from Wills, that Alice was the daughter of Francis Phillips we must work on the theory that THOMAS was the name of Martin's father and it was after he that Martin's second son was named.

Alice being the second daughter (after Mary) is indicative of her being named after her own mother and the last two children (both named Catherine) indicate that they were named for Martin's mother.

JANE would be named after Alice's mother yet we find no FRANCIS in the family

Apart from WILLIAM and MARY only the of CHRISTOPHER is unexplained.

And I think this is the man involved at Helston with Christopher Cock and who is possibly the man who married a daughter of Christopher Cock. (Wills)

This is a possible indication that Christopher Trewhella was related to the Towednack Trewhellas.

He was also named in some documents relating to Towednack in the 1680's which is further, albeit circumstantial, evidence of the connection.

BUT - why was the first son of Martin and Alice named WILLIAM and why was their first daughter named MARY.

It was pointed out to me some years ago that the solution may lie in the Monarchy.

In 1688 (I think) WILLIAM of Orange was crowned King of England and his wife was named MARY. ;D

If we look at the CURNOW family we find another 'odd' name.

Francis son of CHARLES Curnow was baptised at St Buryan in 1685 but I do not yet know if this particular Curnow family has been connected to Towednack and Zennor.

But there is another CHARLES Curnow baptised at Towednack in 1681.

This, as far as I know, was not a name used in the family of this area previously.

I think that CHARLES was named for CHARLES II. (Hope I have my Monarchial Chronology right )

I will try and work through all other messages on this subject while I have some food. (Bloody starving )

Will hope to have more results after work tomorrow.

Ian