Post by Cornish Terrier on Nov 15, 2010 23:53:14 GMT -5
He was bapt.19th. Dec. 1703 at St.Levan. Both buried at St.Buryan. At one time I thought that Charity was the one bapt.1708 at St.Erth. However have since found that this one died as an infant.
The latest input from Lipktatar prompted me to have another look at this.
A check of my database shows that I have this St Erth family but with only brief details.
However there are a couple of things of note:- 1. I don't have a name or maiden name for William Hocken's wife 2. I have a Charity buried but no baptism date 3. There is another Charity baptised soon after this burial
As a starting point I have again checked IGI for a possible marriage for William Hocken (var.) and unless you look at St Breocke, St Mewan or St Minver there is only one possibility prior to 1703 when the first child was baptised at St Erth.
William Hocking married Phillippa 26th December 1693 Camborne
It is looking like Lipkatatar might have provided a solution.
I will look into this a little more and see how the pieces all fit together.
Post by Cornish Terrier on Nov 16, 2010 1:15:53 GMT -5
Well it seems there is a rather large problem with at least part of the theory put forward by Lipkatatar.
I think there is definitely the possibility that Charity may be the one from St Erth but it is the parents who are the problem.
A search of potential baptisms to create a time-line for William Hockin produced the following that upset the works:-
19th September 1702 Mary d/o William baptised at Camborne 16th May 1703 Samuel son of William baptised at St Erth
4th May 1705 Richard son of William baptised at Camborne 24th June 1705 Elizabeth d/o William baptised at St Erth
So it appears there are at least two William Hockins involved here.
William and Phillipa of Camborne would appear to be responsible for some of the children but the mother's name is not recorded at Camborne or St Erth.
Also, after Richard in 1705 there is only one more child within a reasonable timeframe baptised at Camborne to William and that is James in 1717.
Using only the OPC, IGI and Phillimore it is quite apparent that there are at least two marriages not yet accounted for after my search for children of William Hockin.
At Marazion in 1694 there is Grace daughter of William and CATHERINE baptised but then no further mention of this family.
More prolific is this one:-
4th May 1691 Ann daughter of William and Honor baptised at Germoe 2nd May 1693 William son of William and Honor baptised at Germoe 29th September 1695 John son of William of Germo baptised at Breage 9th May 1698 Honor daughter of William and Honor baptised at Germoe
This then brings me to:-
According to the transcripts on The St.Erth Page both the baptism and the burial were in Feb.1708/09. The burial on the 1st. and the bapt. on the 27th. Both for Father, William. (?) John Maddern and Charity's children were, John 1731 Martha 1733 Honour 1735 Martha 1738 Francis 1741 William 1744 Honour 1746 children 1-6 at St.Hilary number 7 at Sennen Francis, Martha and John all being Maddern names.
I noticed that the name HONOUR appeared twice in this family and I now wonder, given you have not mentioned it as a Maddern name, if possibly Germoe might be part of the answer.
It is not far from St Erth and also borders with St Hilary where there are later links.
Another problem I have found is that I can find no burial for Phillip(a) or Honour, at least not within the areas I would hope to find them.
There was a Phillipa buried at St Just in Roseland in 1747 but nothing to describe her.
Might be another of those problems that just needs to be niggled at over time.
Post by lipkatatar on Nov 19, 2010 11:01:26 GMT -5
I have found a record of the mariage of a Charity Hocking to a Stephen Hancock in Camborne on 6th May 1725. This is probably the Charity baptised in Camborne in 1699, but as Stephen was baptised on 20 December 1603 we cannot rule out the Charity baptised in St Erth in 1708 as his wife. Charity Hancock was buried in Camborne on 11 July 1781.
One of my reasons for thinking that the St Erth Charities were the daughter of William and Phillip was that Charity was the name of this William's elder sister. Possibly the unknown William of St Erth was also one of the Camborne Hockins.
Post by Cornish Terrier on Nov 19, 2010 23:54:33 GMT -5
This problem is still confusing but perhaps becoming less so.
The fact that we have 'a' Charity Hockin marrying Stephen Hancock at Camborne in 1725 and subsequently being buried at Camborne many years later suggests that she was 'of Camborne'.
It does not mean she was necessarily born/baptised there but I think the odds swing slightly in favour in this circumstance which would mean the probability is that she was the Charity baptised at Camborne in 1699.
The time-line of Hockin children baptised to William shows that the Camborne family was still active past the point when the St Erth family begain baptising children.
That tells me there were certainly two different William Hockins involved.
It now makes little or no sense that the Charity buried at St Erth in 1708 would belong to William of Camborne. We know that he was still in Camborne in 1705 while another William was baptising children at St Erth and therefore I would expect any deceased Camborne children would be buried in that Parish.
The conclusion from this is that we are yet to find a baptism for the child buried at St Erth in 1708.
This also leaves open the good possibility that the Charity baptised three weeks later at St Erth is the one White is searching for!
And with the later St Hilary connections the family of William and Honor must be strongly considered as the parents of Charity.
I've only just got around to looking at this branch of my tree.
I've found a baptism on Cornwall OPC that might be relevant to this discussion;
More information about record 1186798 in the Baptisms database Day Month: 11-Aug Year: 1700 Parish Or Reg District: Breage Forename: Char Surname: HOSKEN Sex: dau Father Forename: Wm Mother Forename Residence: Germo Father Rank Profession Notes Transcriber Notes Transcriber Althea Barker
It would appear that William and Honour did indeed baptise a child called Charity, or 'Char' as the record shows.
Is this the one buried at St Erth?, or is this the wife of John Maddern?
Post by Cornish Terrier on Sept 10, 2014 16:20:10 GMT -5
I have checked the Breage PR and the entry reads 'Char: ye dau of Wm Hocken of Germo' so it is definitely an abbreviated name and as it also says 'daughter' then this name will be Charity. A step in the right direction I think.
I think this might be the final step Cornish Terrier.
Found on the Cornwall Records Office catalog;
AU St Aubyn family papers Ref No AU/107 Title Lease, Gear, St Erth Date 24 Dec 1702 Format Manuscript Extent 1 piece Description Parties: 1) John Davye, clerk, of Perranuthnoe 2) William Hocken, tinner, of Germoe Geare [Gear] in St Erth Term: 99 years. Lives: Honor, wife of 2) and sons William aged 9 and John aged 5. Consideration: £100 and two broad pieces of gold commonly called Jacobaes. Rent: 30 shillings.
There is also a will for a William Hocking, yeoman of St Hilary;
AP Archdeaconry of Cornwall, Probate Court AP/H Wills, Letter H Ref No AP/H/4595 Title Will of William Hocking, yeoman, of St Hilary Date 1733 Format Manuscript Extent 2 pieces Description Will and inventory.
Last Edit: Sept 10, 2014 20:18:39 GMT -5 by pollyq
Post by Cornish Terrier on Sept 11, 2014 4:34:20 GMT -5
Good work Polly. I have checked a number of resources but unfortunately I have not been able to find any sort of transcript or even an abstract of that Will. But with the information you now have it might be justifiable to think about spending a few pennies to get a copy from the CRO.
I'll see if I can get over to the CRO next month. Unfortunately they're only open one Saturday each month, and tomorrow (technically today) I'm doing something else, so can't make it. So near and yet so far!
Post by Cornish Terrier on Sept 12, 2014 21:36:53 GMT -5
I am sure it will still be there in a few weeks.
But this gives you the opportunity to plan ahead. You could save some time by arranging to have the Will ready for you when you arrive. Give a little thought to what other information you might like to check out and make a list so you can make use of that little extra time.
Post by lipkatatar on Sept 13, 2014 16:06:46 GMT -5
William Hocken baptised a daughter Elizabeth in St Erth in 1711, named after a daughter who died in 1705. This supports the notion that the Charity born in 1708 was named after a recently dead sister, the Charity baptised in Breage in 1700 that Pollyq has found.
The Breage parish records also show that "Wm Hawkin of Germo & Honor his wife" had a daughter Joan born on 1st April 1698, so we can be confident Charity's parents are the family referred to in the 1702 property transaction.