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Post by myghaelangof on Nov 17, 2007 13:24:04 GMT -5
Hi folks, I've obviously to much spare time on my hands as I've decided to look at my St Just brickwalls today and the first is Richard Williams. My 4x GG Richard Williams of St Just married Ann Tonkin at Madron in January 1813. They baptised 6 children Ann, Jane (prob after her mum Jane Jenkin), Mary, Elizabeth, Richard and Eliza from 1813-1824 in St Just where Richard's occupation was given as 'miner'. I have located the family on the 1841 census at Kelynack: Richard 55 miner, Nanny (?)50, and Richard 15. In 1846 Richard Williams age 59 a miner of Kelynack died. Now my dilemma is who was he? Born circa 1787, if the age of death is to be accurate, would suggest he's the son of Richard Williams and Ann (Trenwith) baptised 4th Sept 1787 at St Just. Richard and Ann married in 1784 Madron. However on IGI batch P020311 it states the 1787 Richard was buried in 1798. I think I looked at the burials record sometime ago but cant find my notes. Does anyone have access to the burials record for 1798 to confirm what the entry says? Other options are (i) son of Thomas & Constance Williams bapt 1784 though no dgr named Constance; (ii) son of William & Ann Williams bapt 30 Dec 1781 St Just or (iii) he was one of numerous Richards baptised outside St Just! I have searched for Williams wills that might give a clue, but to no avail. Any help on this gratefully appreciated. Thanks Mike.
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Post by Cornish Terrier on Nov 17, 2007 13:54:04 GMT -5
G'day Mike Unfortunately, I do not have access to the required information but would suggest you keep the IGI 'death' entry in mind as a starting point. I do not trust those IGI entries and all of them require checking - as you are quite rightly trying to do. We obviously encounter problems when dealing with names such as Williams but I am sure there are solutions - if we can find them. I cannot spend time on this at the moment as I am in the middle of moving (finally) and have only a few days to go and lots to get moved. Also working so have to juggle things around that, of course. Other problem is finding the right time to enlist the helpers who have offered their services. They work also and I am loathe to have them help me after they finish a hard days' toil. I am sure they will pitch in whenever if I ask but ... (I can afford only so much beer for them. ) Have a mate coming around tomorrow to check the Internet Antenna and I hope he can get it moved quickly and much better than I might be able to do. Hoping to be not offline for too long anyway. Will catch up later. Ian
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Post by myghaelangof on Nov 20, 2007 9:46:01 GMT -5
I have a copy of the 1813 Madron marriage entry for Richard Wms & Ann Tonkin. The witnesses were; Honour Harvey (signed), Jane Tonkin (her sign) and Philius Keald or Roald. The last one I really cant make out either name for sure! Jane Tonkin is, presumably, Ann Tonkin's mum and a copy of her 1775 Madron marriage entry might confirm the same sign; but where does Honour Harvey fit in to the family? Richard and Ann Williams first child was Jane, who married Richard Tonkin on 28 Oct 1837 at St Just. Richards father was Thomas Tonkin. I have located an 1805 St Levan marriage for Thomas Tonkin to Mary Harvey, so were the Harveys close family? Or is it just a case of too many Harveys, Tonkins and Williams? (My next penwith task is Margaret Thomas in St Just around 1800 so I thought Williams might be easier!!!) Does anyone know much about the family of Christopher and Honour Harvey (nee Williams!) who married in 1780 Sennen, and had children including Mary and Honour?
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Post by Cornish Terrier on Nov 20, 2007 10:08:54 GMT -5
Mike - a quick reply before I get the car loaded up for another delivery to my new abode.
I don't know much about Christopher and Honour Harvey but what I do know has been mostly gleaned from transcripts of the relevant PR's.
Christopher Harvey married Honour Williams at Sennen 13th Jun 1780.
Christopher was baptised at Sennen 8th January 1759 s/o Christopher Harvey and Julian (nee Andrews).
I know of seven children.
Christopher (1781 Sennen) married Elizabeth Cardew PHILLIPS at Germoe in 1812. Honour (1783-1790 Sennen) John (1784-1791 Sennen) Barbara (1786 St Levan) Mary (1787 St Levan) Thomasine (1789 Sancreed ) married Thomas Thomas at St Levan in 1813 (according to an old contact.) Honour (1795 St Levan)
I believe Christopher was baptised 1709 at Sennen s/o Christopher Harvey and Honor (nee Roberts).
About the best I can do right now and had best get the car loaded up.
Ian
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Post by londoner on Nov 20, 2007 12:16:58 GMT -5
The marriage at St Levan of Mary Harvey & Thomas Tonkin was "by licence" so I assume she was under 21 so could have been the da of Christopher & Honour. I found her when trying to identify the Mary Harvey who was the mother of Jonathan Humphreys Harvey (Sennen 1794) Still dont know who she was but did find his father's will recently. Thomas was "of St Buryan" which unfortunately brings in a whole load more Tonkins! There is also a marriage at St Levan for Barbara Harvey to James Matthews (1806) probably Mary's sister. Cant help with Richard Williams though - there are as you say so many.
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Post by myghaelangof on Nov 20, 2007 12:28:34 GMT -5
Hi Londoner, Thanks for the info re licence. That would tie in with Mary Harvey (bpt 1787) being the daughter of Honour Harvey, and not as assumed elsewhere (igi submission!) that it was a Mary born circa 1778. I think I need to delve into these Tonkin and Harvey families to find the correct Williams' lines! Ian - thanks for the 18th Century Harvey info.. Dont worry about the boards for a few days - get yourself moved in, feet on the table with a couple of bottles of Tribute..
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Post by Cornish Terrier on Nov 20, 2007 12:51:37 GMT -5
Dear 'londoner' - would you like some forceps to remove the bullet from your foot. - ONLY JOKING, OF COURSE. ;D 'by licence' to my knowledge does not necessarily mean the party was under the age of 21 and I have seen many marriage entries over the years where the parties involved were 'well over' the age of 21. Without looking at books I think the term 'by licence' is more to do with the marrige of persons from outside the Parish in which they are to be married. I think it also caters for marriages that are to occur without Banns. I should think that the more appropriate entry for Mary might have been 'with consent of parents' but we must remember that the legal age for marriage back then was a little lower than it is now. Mary would have been about 18 and I have no problem with that. But Thomas Tonkin may well have been the reason for the Marriage being referred to as 'by licence' - especially (if I have read things right) that he was 'of St Buryan'. (He would have married 'out of Parish') And now to Barbara. She was baptised in 1786 which would make her under 21 at marriage also yet there is no mention of 'by licence' in this case (although it is possible she was born earlier) Hope this helps. Ian
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Post by Cornish Terrier on Nov 20, 2007 12:54:45 GMT -5
Mike - Victoria Bitter is more my flavour when talking about the Amber Fluid. ;D
Have just sent a PM to Zenobia to let her know I may be offline for a few days (hopefully less) as of tomorrow or Thursday so she can post a General Announcement in case anyone becomes concerned.
Will try to keep checking on things right up to the last moment and do what I can.
Catch you soon - Ian
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