Margaret Roberts, wife of William Shakerley

[trencrom]

Can anyone confirm that Margaret was indeed a daughter of Nowell Roberts and Mary Edwards, and if so, do we have an exact christening date for her?

[Cornish Terrier]

A little more information is required here please.

I know that I have looked into a couple of Shakerley queries but, for some reason, have no record of this one.

I have the marriage of Noel Roberts and Mary Edwards recorded but, so far, have only recorded one daughter - Jane.

I believe that information came from the Will of Jone Edwards (nee Downing) who was the mother of Mary (m. Noel Roberts)

Please expand on your information and I will see what I can do.

[white]

This is what I have to date on this family.
John Robarts married Susan Allen, 4th.aug.1627 at St.Just
Children,
Nowell abt.1631
Margery 25th.mar.1632
Sisly abt 1640.
Nowell (above) married Marrie Edwards 21st.nov.1656 at St.Just.
He buried 26th.dec.1712. She buried 7th.mar 1687/8 both at St.Just
Children,
Honour 23rd oct 1657 buried 29th. nov.1657
Jane 30th.may 1659 buried 3rd.aug.1660
Margaret abt 1661 buried 8th.jan.1711/2 mar.Wm.Shackerley
Jane 27th.june 1663
Mary 20th. may 1665, buried 25th.apr.1711 mar. Thos Wallish
Thomas 5th.jan 1667/8 buried 28th.apr.1669
Female feb 1667/8 buried 5th.feb 1668/9
Joseph 20th.jan.1671/2 mar. Bridget James (my Ancestors)
Margery 1st.may 1674 buried 6th.nov. 1679

Nowell was a Warden of the Parish 1664-1670 and appears to have been involved in the removal of property of John Wallish of Sennen on account of his being a Quaker.
His Parents may be quesionable
His wife Marrie, was the daughter of Thomas Edwards and Joan (Gone) Downing who married 12th. nov.1615 at St.Just. Both left wills.
Hope this helps, Roy
Pity no bapt. for Margaret Robarts though.

[Cornish Terrier]

Thanks Roy - I will try and work my way through this as I can (given my pending re-location of abode).

At least I now know why I had only daughter Jane recorded as child of Nowell and Mary Roberts.

When Jone Downing wrote her Will in 1659 Jane was the only living child.

Yet young Jane was buried only 12 days before her grandmother's Will was proved.

Will do my best to review this but, as stated, it may not be immediate.

[myghaelangof]

Cant help with the Margaret Roberts baptism as I have no info on that either. However are you aware of William Shakerleys ancestry?
His father was Sampson Shakerley, a Captain in Colonel Jonathan Arundells Foot regiment which surrendered at Pendennis in 1646. Sampson slipped away to be part of The Scilly Isles garrison that finally surrendered to Parliament in 1651, well after the rest of England. William was baptised the following year at Camborne.
If you'd like any additional Shakerley info let me know.
Mike

[trencrom]

Hi Mike,
As I am in the internet cafe I do not have my notes on the family to hand, but I believe I have seen this Sampson Shakerely named in someone's database, and possibly named therein as William's father, but I'm not 100% sure on that point, right now I just remember the given name.

However I do not know what the relevant primary sources are, and I certainly did not know anything about his career. This sounds fascinating. Please tell me more -- by PM if you wish.
Thanks

Trencrom

[Cornish Terrier]

You guys seem to be doing well here and I will monitor your collective input.

I have an interest in the Isles of Scilly so will be very interested to learn more from this.

May not be able to input mput much myself for a while, unfortunately, as I have much to catch up on and am about to move house.

[myghaelangof]

Sources for Sampson Shakerley include:
www.british-history.ac.uk/report.aspx?compid=55553#s14

Also a book 'West Britons' by Mark Stoyle where he details the civil war in Cornwall and quotes as his source for Sampson: A list of Officers claiming to the £60,000.... granted by his Sacred majesty for the relief of his truly loyal and indulgent party (London 1663). In other words the King on his restoration was looking to recompense his loyal servants in the civil war..

[trencrom]

Thank you very much for this.
How interesting to find a Shakerley with a role in the civil war.

[Cornish Terrier]

How extensive are these works.

Would there be any mention here somewhere of the likes of a James Phillips of Zennor - supposedly hanged by Cromwell's men during that particular period of 'unrest'.

There is no need to rush on any answer here.

I have much to do but thought it worth enquiring so that I may pursue some of these items at a later date.

Take it easy.

[myghaelangof]

Hi Trencrom. I've been thinking about Margaret Robarts, especially as her mothers brother Justinian Edwards is a direct ancestor of mine through a Chirgwin line. I cant give you any info to confirm her parentage or baptism, and I believe, like you, in getting the proofs. The 1661 date slots conveniently in with the other children of Nowell Robarts and Mary Edwards. However with the other children baptised in St Just, and the parish records for this period being in pretty good order, why dont they show Margaret. On a statistical note, if you search the IGI batch P020311, St Just you'll find the following number of baptisms: 1659-33, 1660-30, 1661-34, 1662-37. Fairly steady rate of births in the town, which suggests there arent any patchy records, although I havent looked at the originals myself. Which begs the question why wasnt Margaret baptised in St Just like the others?


Assuming we are dealing with THE Robart(e)s family there must be some wills about that confirm Margaret. Just a matter of finding them. On the plus side, the Robartes were a well heeled family, and a marriage to William Shakerley, gent (1690 marriage entry),would make sense.

[Cornish Terrier]

Mike - just a very quick reply on this one.

Perhaps you could look at the year ranges for baptisms you mentioned as shown in IGI as I think there 'may be' an error.

However, to have a child baptised 'out of Parish' would not necessarily have been unusual and if we look at the surrounding Parishes we find more than one for which records are no longer in existance.

Sennen and St Levan are two which spring to mind and many events occurred in those Parishes involving St Just people.

Also remember that St Buryan records, whilst going back in to the 1600's, have gaps.

Another possible Parish is Morvah which also has gaps in PRs.

If I am jumping all over the place here please forgive me as I am trying to finish the note and then get to bed.

So Mary Edwards (m. Noel (Nowell) Roberts) would have been the daughter of Thomas Edwards who married Jone Downing - would that be correct.

Sister Margery married William JOHN at St Just in 1644

Brother Martin married Margery JOHN in 1646

Justinian married Margaret KELLWAY in 1656

Am I on the right track here as that is what I have deduced from records available to me.

Now I must get to bed for a few hours as I have to drive into town to pick up the Pub supplies.

Hopefully catch up later tonight.

Ian

[myghaelangof]

Ian, Trencrom
If you're referring to the numbers of baptisms for each year Ian, you need to discount the numbers of deaths listed in each year on the baptisms batch to arrive at the figures I listed.
With regards to Margaret being baptised elsewhere, it is a distinct possibilty, but in my experience only the first child is baptised in a nearby parish. Its always possible Margarets parents moved out of St Just, and returned for him to take up Church warden duties.

I'd concur with the marriages you mention, but have not investigated this family in any detail to come up with any proofs. Possibly Roy may have knowledge of wills or other documents that tie this family together? I think we could definitely do with more research on this family. Pity I cant just nip into Truro in the morning!
Mike

[Cornish Terrier]

My apologies Mike - I was reading (very quickly) 1659-33 (e.g.) as being a year range which is where my comment was based. (Guess I did not read your note properly.)

With regards to Margaret being baptised elsewhere, it is a distinct possibilty, but in my experience only the first child is baptised in a nearby parish. Its always possible Margarets parents moved out of St Just, and returned for him to take up Church warden duties

Mike - I would rephrase this to say 'another' Parish.

My own experience suggests that, in particular, a first child might well be baptised in the 'home Parish' of the mother.
But this does not seem to be always the case.

For a child to be baptised 'elsewhere' we need to first look at the origins of both parents and then, from there, possibly the occupation of the father.

As stated above a 'first child' baptised 'elsewhere' may simply mean that the baptism occurred in the home Parish of the mother.

But It could also have been the 'home Parish' of the father - dependant on circumstances at the time.

And I have seen records of families who might have (e.g.) first child bp. Towednack followed by baptisms at Ludgvan, St Ives, Towednack, Ludgvan, Gulval.

And if the father's occupation caused periodic relocation then you may find children baptised in many different places.

In this case I would think that an effort would be made to have the baptism take place 'at home' but we need also consider the fact that a child might not be expected to survive and so the baptism would take place in the Parish where the parents may be located at that time.

I think we need to keep a more open mind on this one as there are so many variables involved.

Ian

[trencrom]

Mike:
I don't suppose that there are any other Roberts families around that could be candidates for Margaret's family -- i.e. does the circumstantial evidence point to this one as being "the" family despite the lack of a known christening?

If the preceding and subsequent children were all christened at St Just then that would tend to suggest that Margaret, if she is another child of this family, would also have been christened there. But as we all know fromn other families that we have researched, this is not necessarily the case.

Incidentally, have you seen my thread on Thomas Edwards of 1711 as I describe what I know of the earlier St Just Edwards families there.