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Post by mnauen on Sept 20, 2007 0:10:44 GMT -5
I dont know if I am attempting to do the impossible or not. My GGGGran was Catherine Jose who married WILLIAM Warren in 1805. It looks as if he was the second of nine children of WILLIAM Warren who married Catherine 'unknown' about 1756. I don't like 'abouts' or those funny little codes at the side of entries on the IGI microfiche. Is there any other records one can search. My Family don't seem to have made wills. I know there are a lot of Warrens in St J P but why are does there have to be so many WILLIAM W's? Miriam N.
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Post by Cornish Terrier on Sept 20, 2007 15:21:32 GMT -5
It does appear likely that your William Warren was from St Just in Penwith and, yes, there did seem to be a certain lack of variety when it came to choices for the names of children in that Parish. I would find this a little doubtful given William would have been at least nudging 50 when he married Catherine Jose. It is obvious that he was married at St Levan and that is where his three 'known' children were baptised. But the 1813 baptism for daughter Catharine states then he was then 'husbandman, of Paul'. I cannot find William or his wife (Catherine) in the 1841 or 1851 Census which suggests both may have been deceased by then. Catherine, of course, may have been widowed and then remarried. However, given the references to Paul Parish which, by the way, is where daughter Catherine married John Jeffery, I decided to check my records for burials at Paul. 10th January 1840 William Warren, age 57, of Newlyn was buried at Paul. This would put his birth at about 1782 which certainly fits much more comfortably in the family we are discussing. It is possible that this may not be the same man but 'known' data so far suggests it may be a good possibility. We must also consider that the name 'Warren' may also be recorded as 'Warne' or 'Wearne' - even though both are recognised names in their own right. I think, though, that the above burial may well be that of 'your man'. BUT - I have also found something else that you might find interesting. 2nd September 1817 Catherine Warren, age 36, of Paul, was buried at St Levan My thoughts are that this is probably Catherine JOSE. We therefore need to look at the information on William Warren. There are several William Warrens baptised at St Just from 1781-1783 and I think this is where we need to look. All seem to be sons of William Warren and either Alice, Catherine, Mary or Susannah with one being son of John and Margaret and another being son of Thomas and Margaret. The final candidate was son of Edward and Ann in 1783. Given the first son of William and Catherine was HENRY (1806) followed by daughter SALLY (1808) I think we should look at scenarios where, in particular, HENRY is involved. Not conclusive - but I hope it is of some help. I would certainly discount the 1756 information.
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Post by mnauen on Sept 21, 2007 1:09:47 GMT -5
Thanks for that. I had recorded the burial of William at Paul but had no way of knowing if it could be him. The 'Henry' I think comes from Catherine's Father, Henry Jose. But in the Jose families of St Levan I found no 'Sally' so that may be a Warren bit or just a fancy. I have a film on order. I'll look out for any Sallys. I hadn't noticed the death of Catherine, or if I did ignored while she seemed so young. She must have been ill and Catherine her daughter looked after her. See you. Miriam N
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Post by Cornish Terrier on Sept 21, 2007 12:04:17 GMT -5
Whilst looking at that information please remember that SALLY was often a 'nickname' for SARAH. Also, if you see a name that looks like SUSAN, please take a very careful look at it and ask for someone else to look at it if you are unsure. I have seen a name indexed as 'Susan' and then looked at a copy of the particular document myself to find that it was, in fact, 'Sarah'. Just a couple of things we need to consider when looking at Transcriptions and, also, original documents. Good luck - and I am sure you will let us know what you find. (We will keep looking at the rest of this scenario to see what may be found.)
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Post by mnauen on Sept 21, 2007 16:58:26 GMT -5
Thanks. I'm still looking. There were two Sarahs among the St Levan Joses. One in 1787 and one in 1865 so the name was used there. Miriam N
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Post by americaneddybranch on Oct 2, 2007 4:41:11 GMT -5
*chuckle*
Oddly enough, one of Janie Eddy's siblings, Annie Eddy, married a William Warren and another sibling, William John, married an Eliza Warren. It's quite beyond what you were inquiring about, but that made your comment about the amount of william warrens more amusing to me.
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Post by Cornish Terrier on Oct 2, 2007 13:27:45 GMT -5
Erika - this could become interesting. Will make an attempt, as I get the opportunity, to check on those Warren connections you have mentioned and see if there might be any connection. Might take a while though. Keep involved here and feed whatever information you have that might help and we will try and find some answers for you.
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Post by wilma on Nov 28, 2007 7:44:08 GMT -5
I have just read your message about William Warren and Catherine JOSE marr 1805. I believe that Catherine was the first wife of William and died in 1817as outlined in previous messages. My William Warren was a widower when he married Constance Mathews/matthews on 2.4.1819 by licence in Paul. In the 1841 census a WilliamWarren 59,Constance 45 and Sally33 were with their new family in Landithy near Madron. William and Constance had 12 children. I hadn't confirmed that Catherine Jose was his first wife but it looks fairly likely. William lived until 1869. Census records reveal Williams birthdate c1782.
William is my gggggrandfather. I am descended from the second marriage and it was his grandson James Rowe Warren who emigrated to Australia. Hope that we maybe we have a connection here. Cheers from Australia.
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Post by Cornish Terrier on Dec 9, 2007 13:08:31 GMT -5
Wilma - Welcome to this discussion and, indeed, the Board. Whilst I have tried in the past to help a little in this matter (and then got caught up with other queries) you have just sparked my interest BIG TIME. If we have the same 'James Rowe Warren' then we may have a few things to talk about. Firstly - James Rowe Warren bp. 30th November 1845 at Madron s/o Richard and Elizabeth Warren of Landithy is, I believe, the man we are talking about. If so, then he arrived in Australia in 1860 aboard the 'Hilton' with his Aunt Rebecca TREWHELLA. In 1871 he signed the death certificate of Rebecca's husband, John Trewhella, as 'nephew'. All I have known, to date, was that James Rowe Warren was son of Richard and Elizabeth for whom I have no further information, including marriage. Except for the fact that Elizabeth Warren was sister to Rebecca Rowe and daughter of Thomas and Mary Rowe. Elizabeth was baptised at Madron 1st September 1816 'of Bone'. I will be extremely interested to work more on this line and connect the Warren line in. AND - this may well help us sort out the problem of the initial inquiry for Miriam. Please keep the information line open here and I will get to it as soon as I can. (If you look at other threads you will find that I have just moved and have a lot of work to do at home - along with the fire season starting which might well keep me very busy.) Will be doing the best I can so please keep me updated. Ian
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Post by wilma on Dec 18, 2007 17:23:14 GMT -5
Just a quick reply -Yes,we have the same James Rowe Warren. James is the son of Richard Warren of Landithy. and Elizabeth Rowe Daughter of Thomas Rowe and mary . I think Mary may be mary Hall and they were married 1796 AT Beryes? St Buryan Parish? Will try to post more info soon. JR Warren had a very large family. Wilma
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Post by Cornish Terrier on Dec 19, 2007 11:45:02 GMT -5
Thanks Wilma - and yes, JR certainly did have a large family. By my count (working on the Victorian BDM) he had 18 children. I look forward to what more you can tell me about Thomas and Mary Rowe given my interest in the Trewhella connection. Ian
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Post by mnauen on Dec 29, 2007 18:54:46 GMT -5
Hi Wilma, I am descended from the first family of William Warren and that means that your Constance would have been the one to raise my Catherine Warren until she married John Jeffery. I have entered your family onto my charts. Do you have any clue as to William Warren's parents? I guess they must have been farmers rather than miners (of which there were many in St Just) as our families of Warren and Jose before and Jeffery after were all farming or gardening. My Grandfather, John Jeffery James came to Aus in 1883 to Sydney joining his older brother William. One of their uncles, William James had come to Australia in 1865 but died in an accident mining in Victoria. Grandpa worked with a transport company with Clydesdale horses and G Uncle Bill worked in a cheese factory on the South Coast. Both of them grew beautiful vegetable gardens. Miriam Nauenburg
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Post by Cornish Terrier on Dec 30, 2007 9:55:50 GMT -5
Hi Miriam - and all the best for the New Year. I do not have a lot of time right now but have been trying to take another bit of a look at this family. Just found Richard and Elizabeth Warren in the 1851 Census with children William H, Constance M and Alice R. I think daughter Elizabeth was enumerated as a 'visitor' to the family of a widowed Mrs King (forgotten the first name). Have not searched for James Rowe Warren or his brother Richard so far but that can probably wait for now. If it was indeed Elizabeth 'visiting' the King family (Ah! - the name was Mary!) then it is interesting given my recollection suggests St Hilary connections for them. What is more interesting is that this family was living right next to the family of Thomas Henry and Grace Trewhella. Thomas was a brother to John Trewhella who married Rebecca ROWE. There are two interesting points about Richard Warren and his family that I need to try and pursue in the next few minutes. Firstly, according to the 1851 Census, he was born at Paul but, unfortunately, I do not have any transcripts of Paul baptisms for the period in question (about 1821). The second interesting point is:- 7 Aug 1848 Elizabeth c/o Richard and Elizabeth Warren (Labourer) of Landithy Private baptism 24 Dec 1848 Elizabeth Quick c/o Richard and Elizabeth Warren (Labourer) of Landithy Whilst it is, I suppose possible to have two families of Richard and Elizabeth Warren at Landithy with both fathers being labourers, I would suggest the possibility that the above two baptisms belong to the same child. The first was a 'private baptism' and the second would appear to be a Church event so this is certainly a possibility. My query here is the fact that the latter baptism names the child as 'Elizabeth QUICK Warren'. I need to try and pursue this if I can. I also do not have the required information for Madron to fill in some of the gaps I have. I am hoping that Wilma and yourself may be able to fill in some information for me here so that I can help pursue William Warren for you. From the previous postings I am thinking that the 1817 burial was certainly that of Catherine (nee JOSE). From that I can gather that Richard Warren was a son from the second marriage of Catherine's widowed husband. 2 Apr 1819 by Lic. William Warren widower Constance Mathews [Mark] Witnesses: Jane Payne, Richard Pentreath This fits as Richard's daughter 'Constance M' would be named after Richard's mother. The question now becomes - who was Constance Matthews. I have one Constance Matthews in my database and she was baptised at St Levan 5th September 1794 as daughter of James Matthews and Elizabeth (nee TONKIN). This is not helping the 'possible' QUICK Connection. OK - just found the 'young' Richard in the 1851 Census aged 4 and staying with his grandfather William and William's then wife Constance. William was then aged 69 and born at St Just. Constance was aged 52 and born at St Levan. With them were daughters Alice (21) and Mary A (17) - both born at Paul. I am suspicious of the age Constance gave in 1851 as it places her birth about 1798/9. In 1841, as advised by Wilma, her age was 45 and I am thinking this might be more likely. In 1841 the age of adults was normally rounded (usually down) to the nearest '5' and this would make her very likely to be the Constance I mentioned above. I have not yet found William and Constance in 1861 but am guessing the following Madron burial is that referred to by Wilma:- William Warren of Parc An Growes, aged 87 18 Aug 1869 Also cannot find a burial for Constance at Madron, St Levan or Paul. I do not have the time right now to search the 1841 Census a it appears the surname is not recorded as 'Warren'. However, I would like some feedback on this and I will pursue it as soon as I can. Ian
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Post by londoner on Dec 30, 2007 10:50:14 GMT -5
IGI (which I know we dont trust completely ) has Richard baptised 2 June 1822 to Willm & Constance Warren Census 1841: Landithy Higher,1,Wm. Warren,59,,Farmer,In county, ,,Constance Warren,,45,Farmer,In county, ,,Sally Warren,,33,,In county, ,,Charles Warren,22,,,In county, ,,Jane Warren,,20,,In county, ,,Richard Warren,19,,,In county, ,,Mary Warren,,17,,In county, ,,Thomas Warren,16,,,In county, ,,James Warren,14,,,In county, ,,Elizabeth Warren,,12,,In county, ,,Alice Warren,,11,,In county, ,,Grace Warren,,9,,In county, ,,John Warren,8,,,In county, ,,Mary Ann Warren,,7,,In county,
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Post by Cornish Terrier on Dec 30, 2007 11:57:06 GMT -5
Thank you My Good Friend. You have saved me some work and I probably 'got lazy' in the end. Will try and look more at everything after the New Year at which time I hope to have a bit more concentration to work with. All the best for the New Year. Ian
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