Semmans

[georgec]

Hi

Re: John SEMMENS parents.

We think John was b around 1819 in the 1851 cen he was 32

so could his father be William SEMMENS who married Jane ELLIOT 11 Dec 1814

I think the only way is to try and get the marriage cer for John SEMMENS and Mary ? married at Madron.

As for the daughter of Mary I think that a look up in the baptisms of Crowan may help or for the first marriage of Mary to a OSBORNE in and around that area.

Will let you know how I get on. at the week end

all the best

[Cornish Terrier]

Thanks for your input George.

I am totally worn out right now but would appreciate if you could remind me of the dates involved here, particularly the Madron marriage of John.

I have access to some of the Madron information but I cannot remember which years are missing just now.

Before anyone spends any money please let me try to search it out for you.

Will advise further findings later.

[georgec]

Hi

I cant find the marriage of John SEMMENS and Mary ? in the 1851 cen his age is 32 and Marys age is 34.

also John could have come from SANCREED and Mary from Crowan

at the moment I am trying to sort out where the Osborne link in the Crowan area comes from fro Marys poss first marriage

[genie]

I found this on BMD

Marriage:Dec 1843

JOHN Semmens Helston 9 129 , Mary Pearce Helston 9 129

If Mary came from Crowan and married there, the marriage would be registered in the Helson district.

[georgec]

Thank you

I have just found this:

John SEMMENS = Mary EVA m 30 July 1842 John was age 24 Mary age 27. married at Gulval

Johns father was down as William SEMMENS

In the 1851 cen John was down as age 32 and Marys age was down as 34.

Mary came from the Crowan area and I have found that in the 1841 cen of that area at

Burnt Downs 1

James EVA 50 Miner. In county
Alice EVA 45.. In county
James EVA 20 In county
Richard EVA 15 In county
Thomas EVA 14 In county
Ann EVA 10 In county
Jane EVA 05 In county

This still dos not help me with the Marys first marriage re: OSBORNE

any thoughts

[genie]

The online clerk for Crowan is Sue Crispin

I don't know if this link will work but if it does you should be able to email her and see if there is a marriage between an Osborne and Eva.

www.cornwall-opc.org/Par_new/a_d/crowan.php

[georgec]

Thank you will try that

[Cornish Terrier]

George and Genie - you seem to be handling this one quite well at the moment so I will leave you with it for now and join in at some stage in the next few days.

Great to have you two working together on this as it gives me a bit of a rest to look at a few other things.

As stated, will join in very soon and hope to be able to offer something.

[georgec]

Hello

Re OSBORNE, EVA.

I sent a e-mail to Sue Crispin Crowan (online parish clerk) a few days ago had no reply as yet.

Am still trying to find out when were Mary had her first marriage.

Any one have any idea where Burnt Down is or was in the Crowan area.

Thank you

[cornishmaid]

Hi

I managed to have a very very quick look at the Crowan PR's today, and found:

Eva, Mary, daughter of Hugh and Mary, Mason, bapt. 25 June 1815

Nothing for a John Semmons, but there was a baptism for:
John SYMONS, son of John and Mary, Miner, bapt. 24 December 1820.

Could not find a marriage for an Osborne marrying a Mary in the area.

Mary seemed to be the only Eva baptised in Crowan between 1801 and 1845.

I don't know if any of this helps at all

[georgec]

Hi

Looks like I have to try some other place to look for Mary as I may have got the wrong father for her.

The John SEMMENS came from the Gulval area who's father William SEMMENS came from the Sancreed area.

Will let you know what I find.

Thanks

[Cornish Terrier]

I have just spent a couple of hours working on this problem and, somehow, have managed to lose everything I was preparing to send.

This seems to be a recurring problem and I am not really sure how I have managed it.

I will try to make a further attempt tomorrow after work to reconstruct what I had been doing.

But a few notes in the meantime:-

I had not found Amelia Osborne in any way, shape or form other than the 1851 Census.
Cannot find her, so far, in 1841 and can find no baptism for her in my available records.

But I did find the following in Gulval:-

3 Jul 1842 by Banns
John Semmens 24 Farmer of Bosoljack [mark] (Father: William Saunders, Miner)
Mary Eva 27 of Bosoljack [mark] (Father: Hugh Eva, Miner)
Witnesses: Hugh Eva, Henry Trudgeon

It would appear likely there has been a transcription error here with the naming of John Semmens father as William 'Saunders'.

But it does seem to have been clear that Mary EVA was daughter of Hugh EVA and she was born about 1815. (This fits with information supplied in a recent posting.)

The question remains - "who was Amelia Osborne"

I will try to return to her shortly.

The 1841 Census provides some interesting information, although it appears a little confusing.

1841 Census - Lower Green, Helston

Thomas Eva, m, 35, mason
Clarinda do., f, 30
Ellen do., f, 8
Clarinda do., f, 7
John do., m, 3
Thomas do., m, 4 mths
Mary Eva, f, 60

There follows a couple of more households before:-

1841 Census - Lower Green, Helston

Hugh Eva, m., 50, mason
Alice do., f, 50
Charles do., m, 20
Thomas do., m, 15

Another interesting entry in 1841:-

1841 Census - Hea Moor, Madron

Wm Trudgen, m., 45, ag lab
Jane do., f, 40
John do., m, 19, baker
Charlotte do., f, 16
Eliz do., f, 5
A do., f, 3
EMELIA EVA, 2

Is this the girl and is there a connection.

The question still remains - who was Amelia Osborne named as daughter of John Semmens in the 1851 Census?

Now take a look at the 1861 Census for something more of possible interest:-

1861 Census - Church Town, Paul

Henry Osborn, head, mar, 52, farmer and grocer, Paul
Jane do., wife, mar, 49, Bodmin
Elizabeth J do., daur, unm, 21, dress maker, Paul
John do., son, unm, 17, scholar, Paul
Henry do., son, unm, 15, carter, Paul
James do., son, unm, 13, carter, Paul
AMELIA SEMMENS, serv, unm, 22, house servant, HELSTON

Just what does this do for our little mystery.

Back to you now before I lose all this lot as well.

[georgec]

Hi

The mystery deepens

Amelia OSBORNE

b 1831 to Mary EVA = ? OSBORNE (may be)

In 1841 census age 2 down as Emelia EVA with the TRUDGEN family at Hea Moor Madron

In 1842 age 3 at the marriage of Mary EVA to John SEMMENS at Gulval. Then the family moved to Madron

In 1851 census age 12 was down as a step daughter to John SEMMENS at Madron

In 1861 census age 21 not at Madron area

But in the 1861 census for Paul Church Town was down as Amelia SEMMENS a house servant with a Family called OSBORNE

She was a OSBORNE then took the SEMMENS surname and ended up working for a Family called OSBORNE

Am I in to the realms of fantasy or trying to make it fit, but I wounder if the family of OSBORN'S that she worked for was any relations

[Cornish Terrier]

There is the possibility that Amelia was an illegitimate child, not uncommon back then. (Or now for that matter!)

IF she was the illegitimate daughter of Mary EVA then, in some ways, probably all entries regarding her could be 'reasonably' accounted for "except" for that one where she was recorded as 'Amelia OSBARN'.

The fact that she was a servant with a family named Osborne in one Census should be 'noted' but may not necessarily mean a great deal given that Osborne was a name found in many Parishes of that part of Cornwall.

More work to be done on this one I should think and I will return to it as soon as I can.

[cornishmaid]

After 3 hours of going round in circles on this one, I headed back to BMD to check for Amelia's birth. No Amelia Osborne, but I did find this:

Amelia Osborne Eva, born March 1839 quarter, registered in Helston - Volume 9, Page 127

Ticks all the right boxes. One of my great great granny's was illegitimate... her middle name was her grandmother's maiden name. Could this be a clue?