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Post by gandolf on May 2, 2008 19:14:04 GMT -5
While I have yet to fully document it, it appears that the name Arundell became entrenched as a first name in the Pryor family. Arundell Pryor (1727-1803), son of Richard Pryor and Margaret Arundell had a son Arundell Pryor (1763-1811), grandson Arundell Pryor (1789-1825) and great grandson Arundell Pryor (1812 - ?). All were direct male line descendants, eldest son of eldest son. Arundell also appears as a second name in many other parts of the Pryor descendants.
While the original Arundell obviously commemorated his mother's family, the name continued on and thus was likely commemorating the various Arundell's in the family as much as evoking a connection to the Arundell family itself.
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Post by myghaelangof on May 3, 2008 3:03:55 GMT -5
The links to Godolphin/Arundell are looking interesting given that Margaret was buried in Breage. As yet though I havent found any suggestion that the Penberthy family were gentry. I think there was a Penberthy manor? Or was it Penberth? With regard to the Arundell christian name we can find no evidence that it was perpetuated in the Shakerley family. The only other Arundell Shakerley event located is the 1686 marrige in Phillack to Catherine Carnarthen, discussed earlier, and it would be logical to be the same Arundell, from St Just/Madron. An interesting thought has crossed my mind this week, that the Shakerley farm at Bostrase in St Just (and we have evidence from about 1700 that they lived there) is right on the parish border with Madron. Mike  |
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Post by myghaelangof on May 3, 2008 4:22:53 GMT -5
Having looked through all the will transcripts on the 'Cornish Genealogy Database' (Zenobia's site? -excuse my ignorance) I have seen a relationship between Penberthy of Lelant, Canarthan of Phillack, and Bosvargus. What started as a hunt for the Arundell in Arundell Shakerley is now looking like a Penberthy hunt across Lelant.
Time for a breath of fresh air....
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Post by Cornish Terrier on May 3, 2008 12:07:33 GMT -5
Good luck Mike - I will give you a hand on this as soon as I can as I have the odd Penberthy or two I need to track down also.
BTW - PENBERTH
I think you will find it is in St Levan Parish.
Ian
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Post by myghaelangof on Dec 3, 2010 10:51:16 GMT -5
With all work cancelled this week due to the weather, it's amazing what you can find to do! Been looking at the Arundell christian name again, particularly the PENBERTHY line going back from Arundell PENBERTHY baptised in 1798. (He being the grandson of Arundell PRYOR). Arundell PENBERTHY's father was Lewis PENBERTHY (bp 1761 Lelant?). Not conclusive yet, but I think we can trace this Lewis back to Isaac PENBERTHY bapt 1690 Lelant, the son of Lewis. And in turn a connection to the St Just Isaac PENBERTHY's. The first known Isaac in St Just being a brother or close cousin to Margaret PENBERTHY, who married Bennet SHAKERLEY 1605 and potentially the mother of Arundell SHAKERLEY.....  3 years on and still looking! Well they've waited 400 years whats a bit longer between friends |
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Post by myghaelangof on Dec 7, 2012 20:04:40 GMT -5
I'm confused. Apart from trying to log in after a few pints can anyone give me some suggestions?
Arundell Shakerley married 1645, had baptisms 1646 & 1648 (Bennet & Margaret) & his wife was buried in 1665. An Arundell Shakerley married in 1686 to Katherine Canarthen (who previously married before 1658).
However Arundell,who would presumably have had a property was not on the Herath Tax returns of 1664 for Cornwall ( he was on protestation oaths)
Arundell Shakerley appears on a Madron church seating plan of 1674, as does his 'wife'
I'm puzzled. Could we have 2 Arundells here, or did he marry 3 or 4 times and live a long life?
Thanks Miek
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Post by trencrom on Dec 8, 2012 3:01:29 GMT -5
My immediate thought was that it would probably be a son, since there is a gap of 20 years between the burial and the marriage that you mention, but that 1674 entry throws a spanner in that theory.
How complete is the coverage of the surviving Hearth tax records?
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Post by Cornish Terrier on Dec 8, 2012 3:40:46 GMT -5
Mike - nothing conclusive but a couple of thoughts for the mix. I am now of the opinion that Katherine Canarthen 'may have been' the daughter of Gregory Phillips, Rector of Phillack. If so then she was baptised at Phillack in 1628 which might give you something to work with when considering the plight of Arundell Sakerly. If Katherine was a Phillips then son Jasper Canarthen may have been named for her brother Jasper who was also Rector of Phillack for maany years. The primary problem with Arundell Sakerly is the lack of records for anyone of that name. (Excepting for the 1645 marriage and the two baptisms at Madron I think we only have the 1686 marriage!) That he named his only known son Bennett is significant particularly when his only known daughter was named Margaret. Benett Sakerly and Margaret Penberthy were married in 1605 with the entry in thr St Just PR being quite clear. But following that is what might be termed a 'window of despair'.  Volume 1 of the extant Parish Registers for St Just covers Marriages and burials from 1599 but unfortunately the Register of Baptisms within that volume does not commence until 1630! The St Just Book (which was available for download from archive.org at one time) has Baptisms beginning in 1612 and I suspect they may be from BTs given the many gaps. (Years covered prior to 1630 are 1612, 1614, 1618, 1619, 1623, 1628 and one lone entry for 1629) The baptisms we have for children of Benett at St Just:- Patience bp. 13th April 1612 William bp. 28th July 1614 Frances bp. 18th November 1618 Catherine bp. 18th November 1618 Sampson bp. 15th January 1619 (OS) Arundel, along with a number of other children, might have been baptised any time from 1606-1611, 1615-1617, 1620-1622, 1624-1627 or 1629. If you have located any burial information for an Arundell Sakerly it would surely be of some help as might any contemporary Sakerly Wills. CT |
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Post by myghaelangof on Dec 8, 2012 10:03:33 GMT -5
Hi Trencrom, I'm leaning towards there being a son Arundell as well. Either way the marriage to Katherine Carnarthen in 1686 doesnt sit perfectly. If she was born circa 1628 as pointed out by Ian this would mean she was 58 when she married either a 75 yr old man (Arundel senior circa 1610) or his 35 yr old son (Arundell jnr born circa 1650). As we all know these things can happen. There are so many possibilities, including an even earlier marriage or illegitemacy to make Arundell junior rather older, ie born 1630ish and thence similar age to Katherine. Thank you Ian for those baptisms, and yes I do have the St Just and Madron books. Patience and William disappeared off the radar though we do have theories for them. Catherine and Frances died as infants, and Sampson went on to greater things turning up anywhere from Scilly to Plymouth and further afield. Trencrom, the hearth tax of 1664 is almost complete for Cornwall, but one big omission is Scilly where I suspect we would find some answers Hopefully by investigating outwards through the related families we will put together the big picture and it will all make sense. Mike |
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Post by white on Dec 9, 2012 6:58:40 GMT -5
William Carnarthan and Katherine (Phillips) had a daughter bapt. 2nd. feb 1665/6. So she would presumeably be the one that married Arundel Shakerley.
There is a good site for Phillack on the internet, with a lot of transcribed prs.
RW
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Post by Cornish Terrier on Dec 9, 2012 9:43:07 GMT -5
Sorry Roy but that is not correct. I don't know what site you are talking about but here is the list of children for William and Katherine Canarthen taken directly from the Phillack Parish Register (available via FamilySearch):-
William ye sonne of William Cannarthin was Bourne ye 4th day of January 1658
1661
Anna the daughter of William Cannarthen was baptised November 24th
1664
Jaspar the sonn of William Cannarthen was baptised Apr: 2nd
1666
Phillip the son of William Canarthen & Katherine his wife was baptised the 2nd of February
1669
John the son of Wm. Canarthen & Katherine his wife was baptd. Dec. 27
1673
Mary the daughter of William Canarthen & Katherine his wife was baptised the 1st of January
I have tried to get the wording exactly as is and all dates are Old Style. The entry for William is one of a number on that page of the PR which are all births whilst the remainder are amongst other entries for the relevant year.
So the 'daughter' baptised 2ne February 1765 was actually son Phillip baptised 2nd February 1666.
The marriage entry for 1686 reads:-
Arundell Sackerly & Catherine Canarthen widw. were marryed the 3d May
CT
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Post by white on Dec 9, 2012 15:28:22 GMT -5
Thanks CT. Knew it was time to change these glasses. Sorry for any mislead. RW |
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Post by Cornish Terrier on Dec 10, 2012 3:41:41 GMT -5
No problem Roy.  - Best to make sure we can try and cut down the number of potentially misleading records floating about and set the record straight. CT |
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Post by spices on Oct 26, 2013 21:59:32 GMT -5
Hello All, I know this is an old post however someone might read it still
Thomas HAWES 1687 -1733 & Mary SHARKERLEY 1691 - 1760 are my paternal 6th Gt Grandparents.
Would still like to find out more about this family
Cheers Spices
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Post by white on Oct 27, 2013 7:07:49 GMT -5
Personal reply sent to you
Roy
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- Best to make sure we can try and cut down the number of potentially misleading records floating about and set the record straight.