Osborne of Morvah and Zennor, mid to late 1600s

[trencrom]

This is a continuation of the discussion on the Osborne family in the "Udye" thread.

Cornish Terrier,

I have this family as follows:

John married Mary (surname unknown) after 1622 and before 1632 and appears to have had the following children, all at Morvah:

Raphe, liv. 1632 and 1655,

John, marr. Mary Michell 1659 at Morvah, 5 children, died bef. 1715,

Matthew, marr. Mary Usticke, widow, 21/6/1664 at Zennor, at least one daughter, died aft. 1709,

Thomas, marr. Constance Cowling 29/6/1667 at Morvah, 5 children, prob. the "Thomas Osborn senior" buried 15/12/1715 at Morvah,

Benjamin, marr. ?, 3 children, bd 22/11/1717 at Morvah,

Barnard, marr. Jane Veal 19/12/1674 at Morvah, 3 children, bd 13/12/1713.

John senior died at Morvah in 1666 intestate. His wife Mary outlived him and was buried at Morvah in June 1671.

The given names "Barnard" "Matthew" and "Benjamin" did not appear in earlier generations of the family and hence may be a clue as to the family of this Mary.

I therefore have the same folk as you, with the addition of Ralph junior, however the connections we have both made, while probably all correct, are mostly not spelt out in the primary sources.

Matthew calls Barnard his brother in his will of 1709.

Mary widow of John Osborne renounces the admin of his estate in favour of "Thomas Osborn my son" in July 1666.
The associated bond paper grants the admin to Thomas "son" of John, and the bondsmen are named therein as Thomas O and Barnard O of Morvah, and John O of Zennor. All three witnessed the same, either by signature or by a mark.

As Zenobia has pointed out, in 1632 a John was husband to Mary and father of Ralph junior.
John O and Ralph O (senior) appear in the 1641 Protestation at Morvah. No other Osbornes listed in same for that parish.

Ralph senior's will of 1655 names his son John (executor) and John's son Thomas, and a grandson Ralph O (has to be John's son Ralph as no other son to Ralph senior is known)

No Osbornes at Zennor in 1641. They first appear there in the Heath tax records of 1662. A "migration" of several of the family to Zennor around that general time frame seems certain.

John junior who married Mary Michell therefore by implication another son of the John senior and Mary senior of the 1666 document.

Robert Michell's will leaves a bequest to a Mary Osborne but does not state Robert's relationship to her.

Mary Osborne's will of 1715 calls her "widow" but does not identify her late husband. But probably this John junior as Matthew's wife Mary died in 1690.

[Cornish Terrier]

Questions straight away

Barnard, marr. Jane Veal 19/12/1674 at Morvah, 3 children, bd 13/12/1713

1. I do not seem to have a record of this burial so would appreciate details of where it occurred.

2. I only show two children to Bernard and Jane - (Bernard bp. 6th November 1675 at Morvah and Sampson bp. 15th December 1677 at Morvah)

Please enlighten me.

Mary Osborne's will of 1715 calls her "widow" but does not identify her late husband. But probably this John junior as Matthew's wife Mary died in 1690.

I presume Matthew Osborne's wife Mary was buried at Zennor.

Details - please as this is another I had not tracked down.

Time to move on and check your next posting.

[trencrom]

ianjtrewhella said:

Questions straight away

Barnard, marr. Jane Veal 19/12/1674 at Morvah, 3 children, bd 13/12/1713

1. I do not seem to have a record of this burial so would appreciate details of where it occurred.

Zennor

Will get back to you re the other two questions.

[trencrom]

trencrom said:

Ralph senior's will of 1655 names his son John (executor) and John's son Thomas, and a grandson Ralph O (has to be John's son Ralph as no other son to Ralph senior is known)

Ralph also names (among others) his "daughter-in-law" Mary, "kinsman" Thomas O who is probably his grandson of that name, and also leaves legacies to his son John's "four younger children" (not named)
On that basis John has at least six children -- Ralph junior and Thomas definitely, and John junior, Matthew and Barnard are probably three of the others. Benjamin may be the fourth although I cannot at present rule out the possibility that he could be a son to Ralph junior.

[Cornish Terrier]

Interesting - and thank you for the information.

As it is now quite late and I have some work to do in about 8 hours I will not try to pursue this just now.

Will try to take a good look at it after work and pursue it from there after which, I hope, I may be able to piece together and add some more to the scenario.

A few more queries to check and then off to bed.

[kimberleyribeye]

Hello to you all Osborne of Zennor descendants.

I am descended from Robert Osborne who married Parthenia/Tryphena Trevailor and am very interested in who Robert Osborne's parent are.  I have seen Ancestry trees that show he is descended from Bernard (Barnard) Osborn and Ann Robins, but have not been able to find any evidence of this relationship, so am hoping that some fellow researchers might be able to provide some assistance.  

I have come across some of the threads regarding the Michell family of Zennor, but I'm interested in how the Bernard Osborne family is associated with the Michell family of Zennor.   I know a John Osborne married a Mary Michell in Morvah in 1659, but curious about the Zennor Connection.


Bernard Osborn was a witness to the will of John Michell, yeoman of Zennor in 1698 (AP/M/1515) - mentioned in previous posts. wife Luce, sons John & George and daughter Elizabth and there is a mention in the will of Robert Michell, gentleman of Zennor in 1724 (AP/M/1937) of Ann Osborne, widow and Mary Robins and Grace Robin, spinsters, beneficiaries of Robert Michell's will.  Some Ancestry trees note Ann Robins as the mother of Robert Osborne, but I have not come across any wills of the Robins family to provide evidence.

Has anyone got any insights to these relationships?

Cheers,
Greg

[Cornish Terrier]

I have attempted a number of times to piece together this family but so far without success. Certainly I have never found anything to suggest the possible name or Robert Osborne's mother and nor have I found Robert himself mentioned in any of the early Wills.
The only clues I have as to the possible identity of his father lie in the names of his children. As John appears to have been his first son then that would be my first choice for the name of Robert's father just as Elizabeth, as the name of his first daughter, might be the likely favourite to have been the name of his mother. But again nothing can be proved …. at least not yet.

I cannot prove it absolutely but I believe Parthenia Trevailer to have probably been baptised at Ludgvan in 1696 the daughter of James Trevailer and Jane Williams. If that is the case then neither name appears in the family of Robert and Parthenia suggesting that their children's names all come from the Osborne side. Again - no absolute proof!

Matthew and Bernard were both Osborn names and both appear in Robert's family however Bernard was the name given to his last child. On that basis it would seem less than likely he was named for Robert's father.

CT

[kimberleyribeye]

Hi CT,

I can't agree with you more regarding the names of his children following Robert's parents names being utilised for the eldest son and daughter and looking at the Family Search Zennor parish registers, a lot of it is illegible, so makes hard to come to any conclusions. I have noted on my records that Robert's possible parents are John & Elizabeth - but needs more investigation.

I had a look through earlier Morvah records for the names Barnard and Matthew to see if there was a family that may have married into the Osborn family and interesting there was a will of Bernard Leytie, gentleman of Madron in 1679 that mentions Bernard Osborn as a godson (AP/L/776). There is a Barnard Laytye mentioned in the Morvah Protestation Returns, so possibly one and the same and also a marriage in October 1617 at Morvah (no wife's name given) and then the Hearth Tax shows Barnard Latye at Morvah.

I believe you are correct in that Parthenia's parents are James Trevailer and Jane Williams. Siblings are mentioned in the will of Parthenia's brother William Trevailer of Ludgvan (AP/T/1262) where his sisters and their husbands are named.

I have another post regarding the name Malachi pertaining to the Hingston and Trewhella family, so I will see if I can find a suitable location within the forum to post that.

GT

[Cornish Terrier]

I was not aware of the Will of Bernard Leytie or of the connections to Morvah but I have now obtained a copy and see that there are quite a number of bequests of potential interest. Some of these may, eventually, be helpful in sorting out several other connections at Morvah, Zennor and St Erth.
Bernard Leytie names several godchildren who are very likely to be nephews and nieces but it may not be easy to piece them all together.

Another Will that I do have but had forgotten about was that of William Trevailer of Ludgvan. It is no doubt that particular Will that enabled me to track down the parents for Parthenia.

There is no immediate solution to the Osborn problem but these Wills may help point us in the right direction.

CT

[trencrom]

CT and kimberleyribeye:

I have seen an abstract of the will of William Treviler which names his sister Parthenia, so her parentage is established.
I understand that Robert and his wife are buried at St Erth.
The parents of Parthenia's husband Robert are currently unknown. There has been, as you say, speculation that he was the son of Bernard, but that is only because he had a younger son with that name. I don't regard that as strong enough evidence.
Bernard Osborne was the godson of Bernard Latye and for a time I therefore wondered if thee was a family connection, but I have since set aside that idea. An earlier Latye will makes no reference to Osbornes. Bernard Osborne judging by his marriage date appears to have been a younger son to John and Mary.

Trencrom

[kimberleyribeye]

Hi Trencom,

I agree with you and the sentiments CT provided as well - I would sway towards Robert Osborne's father being named John - with no absolute proof at this stage (and not Bernard as that was the name of the youngest child as CT mentioned and therefore possibly named after a brother or relation). Maybe one day a document will come to light that will put the/some pieces together.

I also checked out the will of Bernard Laytye's father Arthur (AP/L/398) and he predominantly mentions the Maddern and Guy families, along with his son Bernard Laytye. I did print this out the other day, so must have a good look at it.

Agreed with the parentage of Parthenia. I descend from her and Robert Osborne's daughter Mary who married William Bartle at St Erth in 1754.

Fingers crossed for a breakthrough :-)

Greg

[cross1]

Hi all, I have found records of a Richard Osborne who married Beatrice last name unknown. Their children were Blanch born 1682 who married a Jolley, Benjamin born 1687, Joseph born 1695, Peter born c 1684, Richard born 1689, John born 1697 and Bettres born 1701. Richard was born 1667 and died 1707 Beatrice was born c 1670's and died 1705. I also have some of Richard's brothers Philemon born c 1670, Richard, Bernard and Michael. I have the family living near Saint Dennis in Cornwall. I don't know if this helps or confuses things more.
cross1

[Cornish Terrier]

Their children were Blanch born 1682 who married a Jolley, Benjamin born 1687, Joseph born 1695, Peter born c 1684, Richard born 1689, John born 1697 and Bettres born 1701. Richard was born 1667 and died 1707 Beatrice was born c 1670's and died 1705.

There are a couple of things to be considered with this information. First of all is the fact that St Dennis is quite some distance from the Madron area being just north of St Austell so, at least initially, any Osborn(e)s from that area should be considered as unlikely to be related.

But the more important consideration at the moment is the information provided in the quote above. By this you are suggesting that Richard Osborne was age just 15 and Beatrice no older that 12 when their first child (Blanch in 1682) was baptized!!!

A serious rethink might need to be given to this particular scenario!

I must also wonder where you found this information as some of the children listed do not seem to appear in the OPC transcriptions - Blanch (1682) and Bettres (1701) are a couple of examples.

CT

[trencrom]

May 15, 2019 17:21:43 GMT -5 cross1 said:

Hi all, I have found records of a Richard Osborne who married Beatrice last name unknown. Their children were Blanch born 1682 who married a Jolley, Benjamin born 1687, Joseph born 1695, Peter born c 1684, Richard born 1689, John born 1697 and Bettres born 1701. Richard was born 1667 and died 1707 Beatrice was born c 1670's and died 1705. I also have some of Richard's brothers Philemon born c 1670, Richard, Bernard and Michael. I have the family living near Saint Dennis in Cornwall. I don't know if this helps or confuses things more.
cross1

St Dennis is nowhere near Morvah. I think this will be a different family.

Trencrom

[cross1]

Thanks Trencom