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Post by trencrom on Jul 11, 2007 22:59:05 GMT -5
Jane daughter of Thomas Philip and Anne his wife christened 8 Jan 1656/6
Matthew so of John Philip buried 23 January, same year
James Philip and Alice his wife married 29 January, same year
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Post by trencrom on Jul 11, 2007 22:59:49 GMT -5
Sorry, typo there -- should be 1625/6 for all three entries.
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Post by trencrom on Jul 12, 2007 23:03:22 GMT -5
I see that Jean Nankervis says that John, James and Thomas farmed two parrts of Boswednack and also leased land at Trewey, and that James died in the summer after Thomas' will (which I take to be that of 1643), Thomas in 1645 and John before 1662
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Post by Cornish Terrier on Jul 12, 2007 23:12:38 GMT -5
Crikey - you got that one in quickly. Just noticed you were on line and decided this would be the easiest place to place a query for you. Zennor BT's 1607 Could you check the entry that I have mentioned appears to be:- __hn s/o Matthew Phillips Dec 1607 I am getting a strange feeling that all is not well here. My hope is that the supplier of this transcription may have made an error. (But I will not send them to the pillory.) The more I look at the situation of the two John Phillips the more I suspect this 1607 entry might be an error. All the information I have, supplemented by all you have now supplied, indicates that both John Phillips were married by 1625 at the latest. We have the one marriage of John and Jone in 1625. We have evidence that the other John had a child born that same year with the mother named as Elner. It seems, although possible, that a John bp. in 1607 (and probably born soon beforehand) is becoming less and less likely to be involved here. If it was a late baptism then we have a different scenario. Over to you whilst I ponder a little more on the situation. BTW - I have further postings in mind regarding the 'mixed Parishes' but have been stuck on this lot for quite some time.
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Post by Cornish Terrier on Jul 12, 2007 23:31:46 GMT -5
With reference to the information from Jean Nankervis - I think we have some more confusion evolving here. If your interpretation is correct then we have a slight problem following our more recent discussions. Boswednack involved James, Thomas and John Phillips. It is more than likely that these three were brothers. (It is possible that there were cousins involved but let us first work on the 'sibling syndrome'.) The Thomas of 1642-1645 Will certainly mentioned Busswednack in his Will and also mentioned brother James, sister Paskus Daniell and mother 'Elizabeth' Phillips. From this, it would seem that he must be the man bp. at Phillack in 1585 as son of James. James Phillips, who also mentioned Boswednick in his Will of 1645 was the husband of Alce and father of Matthew and Jane. This is the same man who left a bequest to the 'poor of Phillack'. So far I think we had concluded that this James must be the son of Matthew. We know that Matthew Phillips had sons Thomas, James and John because they are named in his Will. But we also know that he had a daughter PHILLIPPA BISHOP. Those are the only children (and he specified 'four') that we have for Matthew. So the mention of 'sister Paskus Daniell' in the Will of Thomas causes some definite problems. And I have not yet got to John. Back to you while I think a bit more and take a break.
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Post by trencrom on Jul 12, 2007 23:32:21 GMT -5
Have'nt got a thing for 1607 --the earliest BT I have seen is for 1611. This has started to get me to again think something that has crossed my mind some time ago, that the BT transcripts in SoG may be different to those held locally in Cornwall/Devon.
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Post by Cornish Terrier on Jul 12, 2007 23:57:22 GMT -5
Have just located my copy of Jean Nankervis' work and had another read of it. If we work from the 1628 Will of Matthew Phillips and then look at the 1642-45 Will of Thomas Phillips along with the 1645 Will of James Phillips I think it must be concluded that there are two families of Phillips involved at Boswednack. This probably means cousins and would mean that they were named in an earlier lease in which they were named as the 'lives'. Have to jump things here while I check some further information - but will be back.
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Post by Cornish Terrier on Jul 13, 2007 0:07:42 GMT -5
There are apparently at least two sets of BT's for Zennor and, from memory, we are looking at Bodmin and Exeter which is why I seem to have missing entries in my data. As I have mentioned, you have provided a number of entries that are not included in the information I had previously received. (And that includes the recent entry for 1701 or 1704 that I am yet to return to.) But having now looked at my books again I have found something interesting. I am pretty sure all the Zennor Transcripts I have were taken from Microfilm at the AIGS Library in Melbourne many years ago. The Burials begin at 1713 in my index but there could be a few entries earlier as I was, at the time, transcribing certain names only. However, a look at my Baptisms transcript indicates that 1713 was indeed the earliest information available at that time. EXCEPT for a few entries from 1599, 1607 and 1608 of which I copied 10 - and that may well have been all there was. Hmmmm......
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Post by trencrom on Jul 13, 2007 4:49:04 GMT -5
Sounds like this was the transcription done by Treffy Hoblyn, in the first part of the 20th century from memory. He did have a few entries in the first decade of the 1600s and then as I recall nothing further until 1713. However his was a transcript pf the PRs not the BTs.
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Post by myghaelangof on Sept 16, 2008 17:49:34 GMT -5
Hello Have spent the evening trawling through and collating all the Phillips wills from different sources. I have come to the conclusion that there are 2 James' involved around Boswednack. Just to recap 'old ground': In the 1628 will of Matthew PHILLIPS are named his 4 children Thomas, James, John and Phillippa. From the postings I have this James as being married to Alice in Zennor circa 1625. However in James will of 1645 he mentions a tenement at Boswednack. Now then, in the will of Thomas PHILLIPS written 1642, proved 1645, Thomas mentions his mother Elizabeth remaining at Boswednack, and names his siblings James PHILLIP, Jane PHILLIP and Pascus DANYELL. Therefore we have 2 different James', but which one married Alice? And if we definitely have 2, then James son of Elizabeth probably married Alice GRENFELL at St Just in 1636. Therefore 2 James' marrying 2 Alices'. mmm confusing. The James and Alice of St Just baptised 2 children, Pascoe in 1638 (bur 1639) and Elizabeth 1641. This suggests he was James, brother of Thomas and Pascus, son of Elizabeth. The other thought I had was that if Thomas (will of 1642) was the son of Matthew (will 1628) his only known sibling from Matthews' will would be James. And if this was the same James named in the will of Thomas where did Jane and Pascus pop up from? Maybe they were there all along but not included as the 'foure children of' Matthew PHILLIPS. Has anyone come across the marriage of Pascus PHILLIPS to a DANYELL? Any thoughts?
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Post by Cornish Terrier on Sept 16, 2008 18:19:40 GMT -5
Some interesting thoughts there and a couple of possibilities I had not previously thought of. I tried a long time ago to locate a marriage for Paskus to someone named DANIELL but to no avail. But your thought that James and Alice at St Just might belong to this part of the clan given they named a child PASCO has some merit. Must to bed now but I will have another look at this later on tonight as I have never been really happy with the way I currently show certain parts of the Phillips family and their connections to each other in that early period.
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Post by myghaelangof on Sept 22, 2008 15:04:48 GMT -5
Jean Nankervis says that John, James and Thomas farmed two parrts of Boswednack and also leased land at Trewey, and that James died in the summer after Thomas' will (which I take to be that of 1643), Thomas in 1645 and John before 1662 Looking at the Protestation Return of 1641 for Zennor we have 2 James PHILLIPS's, and one each of Henry , John, and Thomas. So, if there was only one John PHILLIPS in 1641, and he farmed at Boswednack, then was this the same John PHILLIPS who married Joan ROWE and whose will was proved in 1657? Conjecture?
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Post by myghaelangof on Sept 22, 2008 15:11:42 GMT -5
With regards to .....hn son of Matthew baptised in 1607, Diane Donohue, OPC for Zennor advised that the W Treffrey Hoblyn transcripts list this entry thus: ? Jan 1608 PHILLIP Wm? son of Mathew On that basis, not John.
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Post by myghaelangof on Nov 9, 2008 17:09:52 GMT -5
A few more John PHILLIPS snippets to mull over. 10 Dec 1613 John PHILLIPS = Catherine OTTS at St. Just. There is no recorded burial of a Catherine PHILLIPS in St Just upto 1666. St Just burials list 7 Sept 1648: 'Jone wife of John PHILLIP died of plague' and 6 Nov 1656 buried John PHILLIP. The latter entry ties in with the 1654 will of John proven in 1657, which does not name a wife. These dates tie in with Trencroms reference to Jean Nankervis that John of Boswednack died before 1662?
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Post by Cornish Terrier on Nov 10, 2008 14:01:03 GMT -5
Based on the information we have it seems apparent that the Phillips family was not 'native' to St Just. It is unfortunate that Matthew Phillips did not mention any siblings in his 1628 Will because I am now wondering about the possibility that the John who married Catherine OTTS at St Just in 1613 being a brother. The two burials you have mentioned definitely fit the scenario of the 1654/7 Will of John Phillips also. Much more to think on here.
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