Tregerthen Family

[hollybenemily]

Here we go what a wonderful chance! I have Anthony Tregerthen brn abt 1735 St Ives, Death date or place unknown. We have found on IGI that he married Grace Wallis on 10th July 1760 and had a daughter Elizabeth on 20th April 1762, she died same year. No record of Grace dying or remarried but then Anthony Tregerthen married to Sarah Mitchell on 11th Nov 1773 at Phillack(Have copy of Banns) They had three children, Elizabeth brn 6th Oct 1775, Rebecca brn 20th May 1777, and OUR Anthony brn 27th June 1781. All born St Ives COrnwall.
Anthony Tregerthen 1781 Was as his Father a Ships Captain, he is thought to have been involved in the trade of tin and copper ore between Cornwall and South Wales for smelting? He met at Somersethouse a 16yr old Mary David Thomas and they married and he spent rest of his life in Wales, having 13 children and became Harbour Master of Llanelly Harbour before dying in 1844. We have not established how the elder ANthony links in with any other St Ives Families of Tregerthens as of yet.Thanks

[Cornish Terrier]

Well, my friend - I find now that I already had both marriages in my database but had not connected them as being the same Anthony Tregarthen (Tregerthen).

I also have the same list of children that you have just displayed.

I think we need to find a burial for Grace for a start which would be something to help sort this out.

Also - if you have the burial details for their daughter Elizabeth it would be useful.

My one problem here is that, from what we currently know, Anthony had only the one child from the marriage to Grace Wallis and that child, Elizabeth died young.

My next thoughts are that, given no other children are known, Grace may have died around the same time.

The thought progression from there leads to the query - why did Anthony not marry again until 1773 and then have his three above-mentioned children.

As a 'mariner' I can see 'some reasons' but it then depends on the usage of the term 'mariner'.

Certainly the name of Anthony is very significant but I would like to check, if possible, those missing years.

I would also like to know if there were any further children to either marriage - particularly as the names of Grace and Sarah do not appear in what we have so far.

Think there might be a little work to be done here.

[Cornish Terrier]

A further thought on my last.

If Anthony was a Mariner then we have another place to look.

Tregarthen (Tregerthen) is a name now synonomous with the Isles of Scilly so it may be possible that he was involved, or had family, there.

Worth looking at.

[hollybenemily]

Goodmorning, Yes, we thought Grace might have died in childbirth or soon after. Someone once said Anthony was connected with Bryant the Shipbuilder. A old Lady Ann Collier(His Granddaughter) wrote a letter that has been passed around family (Very mixed up) saying his parants died when he was very young and left him a fortune, and that he built and owned a schooner called "Ann" Have not verified this. We wouldn't be surprised if his Father was called John as there are many Johns from the next generation down. This about parents dying young might be why we cannot link him in with any other siblings. The gap between marriages, maybe with no child to find new mother for there was no hurry. Carol Richardson in England is researching Tregerthens from St Ives and cannot make a connection with our Anthony either. She is from the John Tregethen/Short family. Should we post somewhere else for information on Sarah Mitchell married at Phillack. Might get further on her. Did deaths at sea get recorded anywhere? Many Thanks

[hollybenemily]

Just had a thought, if he called first child Elizabeth she then died then called first child of next marriage Elizabeth as well. Would that be an indication his mothers name may have been Elizabeth. (Probably a Elizabeth and John for his parents!) wouldn't that be easy if there was such a union.

[hollybenemily]

Hi again,
According to IGI the first Elizabeth Cr 20th April 1762 Saint Ive Cornwall, Death 7th June 1762 Batch no CO23291, Source 0090250, ALL All on same page.

[Cornish Terrier]

Hello, Hello

This may possibly get more interesting.

I have just done a search of the Transcript of the Phillack PRs for Sarah Mitchell.

The only Sarah (and I checked variant spellings) was baptised at Phillack in 1760 as d/o George and Anne Mitchell.

A check of Marriages shows that George Mitchell married Anne Rowe at Phillack in 1757.

This would mean that Sarah would have been only 16 in 1773 so I am confident we can leave this girl out of the equation.

I found other Sarah's in IGI but many are much closer to Devon or would be too young so can probably be discounted - this elimiates 10 of a possible 23 listed in IGI.

My calculations indicate that, with her last child in 1781, Sarah would not likely to be born before 1732 at the very earliest.
This therefore eliminates a further 7 entries from the IGI list.

I am now left with 6 'possible' entries.

1.Sarah d/o Robert & Sarah MITCHEL bp. 25th August 1742 St Endellion
2. Sarah d/o John MICHELL & Ann JAMES bp. 1st January 1746 St Just in Penwith
3. Same as 2.
4. Sarah d/o John MITCHELL bp. 1st January 1747 St Just in Penwith (probably same as 2. and 3.)
5. Sarah d/o William and Sarah MICHELL bp. 1st September 1750 Redruth
6. Sarah d/o John and Mary MITCHEL bp. 8th October 1751 Scilly Islands Parish

My belief is that (bearing in mind IGI does not necessarily have complete coverage) numbers 5. and 6. are our most likely candidates for Sarah MITCHELL.

5. - I cannot find any further children for William and Sarah at Redruth BUT there are some at PHILLACK. (Presumably the same family)

Jane bp. 12th July 1739
William bp. 26th November 1753

I cannot, so far, find a marriage for William and Sarah Mitchell.

6. - A check of Scilly Islands records on IGI produces the following:-

Elizabeth d/o William MITCHEL bp. 12th January 1728
Ann d/o William MITCHEL bp. 7th May 1732
William s/o William MITCHEL bp. 1st January 1735
Collier s/o William & MARY MICHEL bp. 3rd February 1739

I think this last entry eliminates the Scilly Islands as a possibility.

This therefore leaves Sarah Mitchell as probably the daughter of William and Sarah baptised at Redruth in 1750 with the two above-named siblings at Phillack.

Problem is now - when and where were William and Sarah married and were there further children to fill in the gaps shown here.

Summary of children for William and Sarah:-

Jane d/o William and Sarah MITCHELL bp. 12th July 1739 Phillack
Sarah d/o William and Sarah MICHELL bp. 1st September 1750 Redruth
William s/o William and Sarah MITCHELL bp. 26th November 1753 Phillack

Seems I can do no more on this just for the moment so will leave it with you to think about.

[hollybenemily]

Great work! Agree with you about William and Sarah. They sound pretty good options out of those listed. The Grandchildrens names of Anthony and Sarah Mitchell are as follows: SARAH 1808, Anthony 1812, Ann 1814, Ann 1815, Emma 1816, Mary 1818,JANE 1820, Ellen 1821, Amelia 1822, John Thomas 1824, Christiana 1826, Selina 1828, Thomas 1831, John 1833.(Mine) These all born to Anthony( brn 1781 St Ives) and Mary David Thomas. All born in Wales.
Sarah probably named after Mary David Thomas/Tregerthens mother who was Sarah Griffith, but could have been also been named after Sarah Mitchell. Anthony named after his Father and Grandfather,with this name so prominent do you think ANTHONY TREGERTHEN abt 1735, that his mothers surname name could have been ANTHONY.
Back to children again JANE could have been from the Jane Mitchell Sarahs sister. All this sounds very confusing to me so hope you can understand where I,m coming from.
If we cannot find ANthonys St Ive death do you think maybe we can find Sarah Tregerthen his wifes death. Would there be wills only if people of wealth or did everyone leave a will in those days?
Have looked at The Banns for the Wedding in Phillack, it looks like The Witnessess were
THO MITCHELL HATTY/HETTY/ MITCHELL Happy hunting this is great someone to help us along the way. Many Thanks.

[Zenobia]

Looking at your original post - with the graddaughter saying the parents of the original Anthony died when he was a young child. I've seen a number of these types of storys before (the orphaned child story) where it was actually a cover story for an illegitimate birth. That doesn't mean it neccessarily is, but its something to throw into the mix as a possibility.

It is a shame we don't have a death date for him. Is the birth date of ca. 1735 based on his age at marriage?

[Zenobia]

Oh, also, as for wills, I have found quite a number of 'average' people who had wills, but your Anthony sounds like he was reasonable well off anyway. Let me look around and see waht I can find.

[Cornish Terrier]

Been having another look at this.

Checked all my P&T Marriages from about 1730 to 1740 (some to 1750) and cannot find a marriage for William and Sarah.
There are a number of Parishes for which I do not have these records so all is not lost.

I cannot do much more with this now - except to through another 'spanner in the works' for you.

1st May 1811 John TREGERTHEN, Auctioneer, married Margaret BOSUSTOW at LELANT

I show the following children for this couple (all bp. Lelant and all from IGI) :-

George Bosustow Tregerthan bp. 23rd September 1813
William Tregerthen bp. 4th October 1815
Emily Tregerthen bp. 15th March 1818 (This from Lelant PR)
Henry Tregarthen bp. 8th April 1821
ANTHONY TREGERTHEN bp. 16th July 1826

How does that work in your mix of things.

We also need to think about the 'mariner' thing and the Wales connection.

I had forgotten there was sea-trade between Cornwall and Wales so we may have some avenues to pursue there.

(Mark Trengrove - Please Help!)

I will leave you with those few things to cogitate over and let's see what transpires.

[Cornish Terrier]

I just tried a check of the 1851 Census using 'birthplace' as Cornwall with 'residence' as Any for the search item Treg*th*n.

What I found was that the bulk of people, even with variant spellings, of this name were in the Scilly Isles. (Tregarthen, Tregasthen etc.).

Also tried with the Christian names of George and Anthony without success.

If people of this name were not on Scilly they were mostly around Penzance and Madron - with a few exceptions.

Just tried to find the family of John and Margaret Tregerthen in some of the Census records but have had no success.
Looked for George and Anthony without any luck so I am now very curious.

Their father John:-

In 1813 (bp. of George) was listed as 'Gent.'
In 1815 (bp. of William) was listed as 'Merchant'
In 1818 (bp. of Emily) was listed as 'Auctioneer'
In 1821 (bp. of Henry) was listed as 'Yeoman'
In 1826 (bp. of Anthony) was listed as 'Auctioneer'

Some more fuel from Lelant:-

16 Oct 1848 by license
Robert Sawle widower full age coast guard service Uny Lelant
(father: Howard Sawle, mariner)
Emily Tregerthen full age Uny Lelant (father: John Tregarthen, brewer)
Witnesses: Thomas Richards, Marianne Leacher

And that does seem to be all I can find for now.

[hollybenemily]

whow!!! You have been busy, we have been up to Auckland to visit old Auntie and couldn't wait to get home to see what had been found. Will have a good read and think about it and email you tomorrow. Many many thanks again, Ara

[hollybenemily]

All these things happening at St Ives. Anthony Tregethens first marriage to Grace Wallis, Child Elizabeth birth and Death, then birth of next three children to Sarah Mitchell I think I got carried away with the idea HE WAS BORN st Ives, but maybe not. But his Banns say OF THE PARISH OF ST IVES, so that must mean he was born there wouldn't it!!. I thought if there were seaman records that might help is there any register to show them please.
The family born in Lelant in the 1800s' don't think they fit in with the ones that went to Wales unless John 1811 their father was a relative in some way back from St Ives. These children were being born in Lelant when the Wales lot were being born in Llanelly Wales.1808 to 1833.
Going back again to first Anthony Tregerthen again, by the time Elizabeth was born to Anthony and Sarah in 1775 it is filled in on original sheets(From film from utah) as CAPT ANTHONY TREGERTHEN so prehaps finding a ship would help,what do you think?
PS We were only guessing when he might have been born abt 1735.
Will sleep on it and think some more.

[Cornish Terrier]

Will try to keep this short as involved in packing to move home etc.

It may be possible to track down some 'mariners' records but I don't think we could guarantee finding Anthony. (Look pessimistic and work upwards

As a 'mariner' he may have been a fisherman, however, I note that he is known as 'Capt Anthony Tregerthen' in your latest note which is suggestive of him being not just a 'seasonal fisherman'.

My only other comment for now is:-

But his Banns say OF THE PARISH OF ST IVES, so that must mean he was born there wouldn't it!!.

To be 'of' the Parish did not mean a person was born there - it, to my knowledge, meant that the person had been resident (or based) in the Parish for a certain amount of time. (Others may be able to clarify this).

It certainly did not mean that a person was born in that Parish.

I think we have a little more work to do here.

BTW - I tried to take a look through some other PRs that I have access to but still cannot find the marriage of William and Sarah Mitchell.

Will keep working on it. ;D