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Post by Cornish Terrier on May 8, 2007 7:50:40 GMT -5
Very good idea me luvvly Cornishmaid and thanks to both yourself and Sue for the information. The obits. (provided there are some for these people) should be very useful and informative. I will, as I can, continue to see if I can track down Margery and will advise of any results.
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Post by Cornish Terrier on May 8, 2007 8:21:10 GMT -5
Sue, can you give me details about where these Deaths and Marriages took place please. Also, is the John who married Grace Stevens Berriman the widower of Margery Thomas Rogers. There is Grace B. Sisley buried 24 November 1953 (no age given) - could she have been a daughter of John and Grace or might she belong to another family. The burial was at Barnoon Cemetery, St Ives. In the 1881 Census at Tregenna Place, St Ives there is:- Grace Sisley, Head, Mar., age 39, bn. Lelant - Carpenter's wife Grace B Sisley, Daur., age 3, bn. St Ives I would say certainly a match here with the Burial and very possibly a match with Grace Stevens (Berriman). And now, from the St Ives Online Parish Registers:- Baptism 19 Feb 1879 Grace Berriman Sisley c/o John (Joiner) & Grace Berriman Sisley of St Ives bn. 1 Apr 1878 'joiner' is very similar to 'carpenter' so we may well have your man here. Margery living with her grandparents at the time of this Census is no drama and is often seen. It may have been an overnight stay, for example. AND - I just found another one to ponder over for myself:- Ann TREWHELLA c/o James (sailor) & Matilda WOOLCOCK bn. 10 May 1879 and bp. 25 Jun 1879. Never knew about her! Will try and dig a little more for you tonight and see what else I might find but will also try and get a few of my own things sorted.
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Post by cornishmaid on May 8, 2007 8:34:41 GMT -5
Will see what I can find Should be able to have a look this Thursday hopefully. Lots of obituaries to look for Don't know why I didn't think of it before Fingers crossed! Think I'm correct in saying that John Sisley, the husband of Margery Thomas Rogers, remarried on 3 January 1876 to Grace Stevens Berriman. They married in Halsetown; Grace's father was Stephen Berriman, Miner. Witnesses at the wedding were Benjamin Sisley and Philippa Richards. Another Trewhella! They get everywhere!!
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Post by Cornish Terrier on May 8, 2007 9:37:30 GMT -5
Thankyou for this latest - thought I just checked Halsetown Marriages with no luck. (Will take another look.) As for the Trewhella connection - Oi found 'em! ;D Turns out Matilda was nee PEARCE and her mother was Ann TREWHELLA (m. William Pearce). Ann TREWHELLA was daughter of William TREWHELLA and Ann (nee GLASSON). This William TREWHELLA would be my 4xgt-grandfather. Will take another look at what I have on Halsetown and see what I find.
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Post by Cornish Terrier on May 8, 2007 10:20:41 GMT -5
Some progress on the second wife of John Sisley - (Grace Stevens Berriman). Been some work but I believe I can identify her as the daughter of Stephen Berriman and Ann (nee EDWARDS) who were married at Lelant 5th April 1829. Stephen Berriman was son of Henry BERRYMAN and Grace STEVENS and was baptised at Zennor 1st April 1804. This is where the name 'Grace Stevens Berriman' would come from. However, I have not found her in any Census where the middle name has been used. (Only in the marriage record). BTW - I did manage to find that Halsetown Marriage. During the Census years the age given for Grace consistently gives an indication that she was born about 1841 or 1842. However, she was actually baptised at Lelant 14th April 1839. I believe that solves one part of the problem but still not the problem of the disappearing Margery. Will continue to work on that part a little later.
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Post by cornishmaid on May 10, 2007 17:10:39 GMT -5
Well, went a searching for obituaries today to try and find Margery... I couldn't find an obituary or even a notice of death for her father John Sisley, died March quarter 1911. I double and triple-checked just in case I missed something, but there was nothing. Will check the Barnoon Cemetary burials and see if that gives any other information. Thinking I would have more luck with the more recent deaths I checked for Grace B Sisley (Margery's half-sister), who was buried 24 November 1953. This I found. I only managed to transcribe part of the obituary (the printer wasn't working ), but if you want the whole obituary just let me know and I'll go and transcribe the other half and type it all up. Not a problem In short, in appears that Grace B Sisley did not marry and that she was a Headmistress at the Old Island Road Day School. I like this bit of the obituary.. "The following list of beautiful tributes bore witness to the affection for Miss Sisley of those who knew her best." Anyway, I digress. In the list of floral tributes there was the following: "With Sincere Sympathy - Marjorie and Ruth" Unfortunately there was no other information about who Marjorie and Ruth were, so whether this is the same Margery/Marjorie we are looking for is unclear at the moment. I will return to St Ives tomorrow and check the other Sisley deaths if I have time. We will find her eventually
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Post by Cornish Terrier on May 10, 2007 19:03:06 GMT -5
Something interesting - I have just checked both 1891 and 1901 Census records for England. In both cases I found Grace with daughter Grace B living together in St Ives. And in both Census years Grace states she is 'married'. In 1901, however, she states she is living 'on own means' which seems a little odd. The other interesting thing is that I have been unable to find any trace of John in either 1891 or 1901. NOW - I may have some 'awkward' news. I have checked St Catherine's House for the death of John Sisley March Qtr. 1911 and certainly found the record. However - I have to say that this IS NOT the right John Sisley. The fellow who died in 1911 was aged 82 which means he was born around 1829 - this is at least 10 years before the John Sisley we are looking for. The man in 1911 will be the one who shows up constantly in the Census Records at St Ives with a wife named Ann. I therefore need to wonder, even though Grace states in 1891 and 1901 that she was 'married', whether John may have already been deceased. It would not be the first time a widow has stated her position in the Census as 'married'. In 1881 we have something similar - Grace and her daughter are living alone in St Ives whilst Margery is living with her grandparents. In this year Grace states she is a 'carpenter's wife' whilst in 1891 and 1901 she gives her occupation as 'dressmaker'. John's occupation is always given as 'carpenter' but - what sort of carpenter might be the required question. Being at St Ives he may well have been a 'Ship's Carpenter' which would explain a lot of his absence. He could have been away at sea. And Grace's age also varies - in 1841 (2), 1851 (11), 1861 (20), 1871 (28), 1881 (39), 1891 (49), 1901 (59). The last three are certainly consistent - but obviously incorrect. Even her daughter's age 'creeps down' a little over the years. But I still have not found John or Margery!
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Post by cornishmaid on May 10, 2007 19:48:23 GMT -5
Yes, agree with all you have put in your last post; have been pondering over the very same things. Very strange that John Sisley wasn't with his 2nd wife Grace and child in the census returns. However, I have a Peter Husband Toman (fisherman) who was never at home on census night, so it could be just the occupation that kept John away. Will check out the oher Sisley deaths tomorrow if I can. Barnoon cemetary burial records might give some clues, and will keep checking the newspaper reports. Come on Margery, where are you?!!
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Post by cornishmaid on May 11, 2007 18:38:42 GMT -5
Ok, still no further forward. I looked for Thomasine Sisley's obituary today but the only death in Jan/Feb/March 1898 was for "Elizabeth Sisley" not Thomasine, ie: January 29th 1898 edition of the St Ives Weekly Summary: Death: Sisley - January 21st at Westcotts Quay, Elizabeth, widow of the late Mr John Sisley, aged 83."
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Post by Cornish Terrier on May 12, 2007 12:35:27 GMT -5
It is (just) possible that John Sisley decided to venture overseas to better himself and his family. I think what I am looking for may be in the previous page of this thread so I cannot be certain of things without destroying this note. What I need to remember is - did we find John Sisley (father of Margery) in the 1881 Census? My theory is - we know Margery was there in 1881 with her grandparents. We know Grace and daughter Grace B. were there but living elsewhere. I was wondering if John may have headed to America or Australia or New Zealand in search of a better life for he and his family. At this time (c. 1881) Margery would have been about 16 and may have gone with him. Young Grace would have been only 3 (in 1881) and so it is possible she and her mother were left 'in waiting'. Just a thought that might be worth pursuing. As soon as I get a chance I will try and check my Victorian Records (Australia) to see if there is any sign of them. Apart from that - a little bemused!
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Post by cornishmaid on May 12, 2007 18:17:26 GMT -5
Have re-checked the Sisley file carefully and no luck. It could well be that John Sisley went overseas, but his daughter Grace (by his second wife) died and was buried in Cornwall. There is a picture of her in Cyril Noall's "Yesterday's Town: St Ives", page 67 if anyone is interested, and her obituary was in the St Ives Weekly Summary. John's sister, Jane Carne Sisley, had at least one child that emigrated to warmer climes. Will re-check the bmd information to try and sort a few of the details out when I have more time
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Post by Cornish Terrier on May 13, 2007 11:14:45 GMT -5
No luck yet I am afraid. I have tried many things tonight but have had no luck finding the whereabouts of Eleanor and Margery in 1851, John in 1881 and beyond or Margery after 1881. I thought I was in luck when I found the family of John and Thomasine Sisley in the 1861 Census (they were indexed as 'Sesley') but then everything went downhill again. Will keep trying though.
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Post by cornishmaid on May 14, 2007 10:39:58 GMT -5
No luck here either with any of them. I can't find the deaths of John Sisley or Grace Stevens Sisley (nee Berriman) either at the moment. If anyone could find a death for her in St Ives, I could look her up in the burial records. A clue should be found there as to whether John pre-deceased her. The only other thing I may have found relates to John and Grace's daughter, Grace Berriman Sisley. There is a Grace B Sisley, est birth date 1878 on the New York Passenger Lists. She left Southampton on 4 July 1850 on the Mauretania, and arrived in New York on 10 July 1950. She was aged 72. She was visiting Mrs S Bowden, 525 East Jamieson Street, Flint 5, Michigan. Will keep on searching too...
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Post by Cornish Terrier on May 14, 2007 14:20:37 GMT -5
Some interesting information here about Grace B Sisley. We need to find out the relationship of the person she was visiting for a start. But I twould seem that she must have returned to England not long later given she was buried there. As for the rest - do not be pre-occupied with St Ives itself! There are also Halsetown, Carbis Bay and possibly other Cemeteries to consider.
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Post by cornishmaid on May 14, 2007 17:11:02 GMT -5
But I only have access to Barnoon burial records ;D We know she was living in the area in 1901. It was just a thought that if she was indeed buried in St Ives the burial records may give more clues as to whether John was alive or not at the time.
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