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Post by Zenobia on Sept 18, 2007 14:34:14 GMT -5
Stay tuned to this spot - within the next 48 hours I promise still more exciting medieval documents and Roscrugey spaghettiness to sort out...  |
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Post by Cornish Terrier on Sept 18, 2007 15:19:35 GMT -5
You are so kind.  I am sure Trencrom will be really looking forward to this also.  Will take a look and, if it something I am able to help with, you know I will do my best to help.  |
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Post by Zenobia on Sept 20, 2007 20:43:06 GMT -5
Okay, here goes. We have already determined in the earlier thread that Richard Roscruge (b. 1479/80), was the son of Jane ?Tregonwell? and probably the grandson of Richard Roscruge, whose wife was named Johanne. We know for certain that Richard's father was named Thomas, and it would appear that Thomas married his own step-sister. Since Richard was born in 1479/80, we can presume his father Thomas was b. ca. 1445-1460, and the grandfather anywhere from about 1410-1440. Thomas was apparently still living in 1522, when he is named in a Valuation of Kerrier at St. Anthony, along with Richard. The next step is to see if we can untangle some earlier generations. Here are some documents, in partial chronological order: Henderson, Vol. VI, p. 207: A 8710. 4 July 8 Hen VI (1430). Foeffment by Thomas Roscruk son & heir of Richard Roscruk to Thomas son of James Roscruk. Rent & service of John Tomkyn for land he held of him in Penhalwyn in Kerrier with the reversion of the lands on the expiration of John's term. p. 294: A12012. 24 Sep 23 Hen VI (1444). Feoffment by Thomas Roscruk son of James Roscruk to Ralph Reskymmer Esq. of all his lands in the town of Penhalwyn. Rent such since as he did before to the heirs of Tho. Roscruk late of Roscruk decd. Fine 1003 (8 July 1434) Benedict Hamle claimant, Thomas Roscruk & Annora his wife, deforciants. Land in Karlunyek (Mawgan in Meneage), Trewyllys, Cowysyk (St. Keverne), Helstonburgh, Bodreveynek (Wendron), Gothegran (Mabe), Kyllyweres (Kea), Tremynhyre, Goncrukhe, Truruburgh, Carwordres & Buthyngostok. To Thomas & Annora and heirs of their bodies. 100 acres of pasture of aforesaid tenements, which Alice Andrews, late the wife of Thomas Carlunek held for term of life of the inheritance of said Annora and which should revert to Benedict, shall now revert to Thomas & Annora and their heirs. Remainder after the deaths of Thomas & Annora, in default of heirs, to John Pennace s/o said Annora & heirs of his body. With remainder after John's death with default of heir to William Pennace, brother of the said John and heirs of his body. Remainder after death of William in default of heir, to John Hert & heirs of his body. With remainder after John Hert's death in default of heir to the right heirs of the said Annora. Fine 1088 (3 Nov 1450) Between Wm. Bonevyle, knight and Wm. Bere, claimants, and Annora, who was the wife of Thomas Rescruke, deforciant. Same lands as above. Henderson, Vol. 7, Buller Papers, Bundle III. 28a. 15 Oct 2 Ed. IV (1463) Wm. Bere grants to Thomas Ruthfos all his lands in Tregassow & Porthiskyn in St. Anthony, which he had of the feoffment of James Roscruk and Thomas Roscruk his brother... So far I can only conclude a few facts: A Richard Roscruck had a son and heir Thomas, and a younger son James. James had a son Thomas. The elder Thomas had a wife Annora, who was probably a second wife, as she had two sons (and perhaps a dau m. to John Hert?) already. Annora appears to be the daughter of Thomas Carlunek and stepdaughter of Alice Andrews. Thomas was decd. by 1450, most likely with no heirs by Annora (she has the land, but none of those tenements ever show up in later Roscruge hands). Thomas may have had heir or heirs by an earlier marriage, but since he is deeding some land to his nephew, perhaps not. The 1444 deed indicates that the elder Thomas had heirs, but not necessarily heirs of his body. The younger Thomas is living in 1455 - is he possibly the father of Richard Roskruge who was married to Johanne and then to Udon Tregithiowe? Help! |
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Post by trencrom on Sept 20, 2007 22:13:58 GMT -5
I am reading it much the same way.
Thomas husband of Aanora was dead by 1444.
The younger Thomas (son of James) living in 1430 looks a little too old to be father of Richard if Richard was born c. 1480 --unless Richard was his youngest child.
Perhaps grandfather instead?
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Post by Zenobia on Sept 20, 2007 23:09:21 GMT -5
I am reading it much the same way. Thomas husband of Aanora was dead by 1444. The younger Thomas (son of James) living in 1430 looks a little too old to be father of Richard if Richard was born c. 1480 --unless Richard was his youngest child. Perhaps grandfather instead? Richard 1480 was Richard II, but the elder Richard who married Johanne and then Udon must have been born roughly 1410-1440 as I noted above. I tried following some of the landholdings, but without much luck. Tomorrow I will post the IMPs that I have for the later family, summarizing their holdings. |
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Post by judylynn on Mar 29, 2009 14:59:45 GMT -5
This spaghetti is not on my ancestral menu ... however, I do have a small selection of ROSKROWE. Would this be a variation of the ROSCRUGE surname?
Vintage is 1616, Penryn (St. Gluvias) then Stithians; prior to that possibly Redruth.
Cheers,
~JudyLynn
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Post by Cornish Terrier on Mar 29, 2009 15:18:02 GMT -5
According to Pawley-White (A Handbook of Cornish Surnames) possibly not but then therre is some similarit even in his description of the names. ROSCROW, ROSKROW From ros-crow: heath with a hut. Place name Roskrow, St. Gluvias. ROSKRUGE From ros-cruk: heath of the barrow or mound. Place name Roskruge, St. Anthony in Meneage. Found in Mid West Cornwall. Don't know if that helps but it's all I got at the moment!  CT |
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Post by judylynn on Mar 29, 2009 17:02:52 GMT -5
CT, as you well know, EVERY little bit helps! I at least know that I don't need to pay attention to those posts ... yet ...
Thanks for the tip,
~JL
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Post by Cornish Terrier on Mar 30, 2009 0:22:41 GMT -5
Not a problem - Pawley-White is not the be all and end all when it comes to the subject of surname origins but I have found his work a useful guide.
CT
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Post by davidkingmartin on Mar 30, 2009 7:46:59 GMT -5
CT: Roscruge name.
This could be derived from:
Roskilly
Roskillye
Reskillie
Reskylly(e)
Reskelli
(all names from the same family, back to 1400s).
A Roskilly married into the Rowe family: relatives of mine.
All mid. to west Cornwall.
David.
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Post by Cornish Terrier on Mar 30, 2009 9:02:11 GMT -5
I don't really know enough about the name but anothe ropinion from Pawley White:- ROSKELLY, ROSKILLY From res (ford) or ros (heat)-kelly: by the grove or copse. Place name Roskilly, St. Keverne. Found in Mid Cornwall. No clear answer forthcoming.  CT |
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