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Post by Zenobia on May 27, 2007 16:23:36 GMT -5
Here is the latest batch of Trengove wills I have abstracted: HENRY TRENGOVE alias NANCE, gent, of Illogan written: 12 May 1625 proved: 9? Aug 1625 wife: MARGERY TRENGOVE als NANCE all and to provided for the children no signature witnesses: EDWARD COLLINGS, pator of Illogan & MARY COLLINGS his wife AP/T/445 MARGERIE NANCE, of Illogan, widow written: 1 May 16(torn) proved: last of Feb. 1627/8 eldest son: JOHN NANCE 1 chain of pearls & my wedding ringe eldest daughter: JANE NANCE a gold chain, small gilded bowl, a gold ring & 100L son: ARTHUR NANCE one gilded bowl and 100L youngest son: HENRY NANCE 1 silver bowl and 100L daughter: ANNA NANCE 1 gilded bowl & 100L daughter: MARY NANCE 1 gilden bowl, 4 silver spoons & 100L brother FFRANCIS BASSETT, Esq. a bason and ewer & executor sister-in-law: Mrs. ANNA BASSETT my cubboard no signature witnesses: JAMES BASSETT, gent & THEOPHILUS  , gent & others AP/N/147 NATHANIEL TRENGOVE of Perranarworthal, yeoman Admon granted 31 July 1663 to KATHERINE TRENGOVE, widow of the deaceased and JOHN TRENGOVE, son of the deceased. Bond by the same and also FRANCIS PAYNTER of Gwennap. Inventory taken 18 July 1663 by HUGH DUNSTONE & REYNALD TRENGOVE. At bottom of inventory the names of KATHERINE TRENGOVE, widow and JOHN TRENGOVE, son, are listed. AP/T/909 RICHARD TRENGOVE of Perranarworthal Admon granted 14 June 1683 to KATHERINE TRENGOVE, widow, of Perranarworthal, mother of the decd. Bond by ROBERT WILLIAMS of Perranarworthal, yeoman and JOHN TRENGOVE, of Perranarworthal, yeoman. No inventory extant. Account dated 15 September 1684 mentions monies paid to JOHN TRENGOVE & HUGH PASCHOWE. AP/T/1308 REYNOLD TRENGOVE, gent, of Truro written: 9 Mar 1692/3 proved: 11 May 1693 wife: SARAH TRENGOVE 40 L and the lease in Stithians called ?Terysering? son: REYNOLD TRENGOVE 20 L 2 children of my son REYNOLD 5 L each grandson: REYNOLD NICHOLAS 10 L granddaughter: ANN NICHOLAS 10 L grandson: RICHARD NICHOLAS 3 L grandson: WILLIAM NICHOLAS 5 L granddaughter GRACE NICHOLAS 40 sh. cosen: PHILLIP PAYNTER 5 sh. NICHOLAS s/o AMBROS THOMAS 5 L ELIZABETH w/o WILLIAM COCK of Glevis 5 sh. daughter of ELEANOR BOND 10 sh. 6 d. each of my godchildren 1 sh. daughters: ALICE WILLIAMS & RUTH DUN all the rest & executrixes their husbands are not to meddle with their legacies Reynold Trengove witnesses: ROGER LAMERTON, JAMES HICHENS Inventory taken 19 April 1683 by GEORGE CLEMENCE of Truro, barber & ROGER LAMERTON of St. Clements, yeoman. AP/T/1634 |
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Post by marktrengove on May 29, 2007 18:11:44 GMT -5
I am comforted somewhat that two proved sons of Nathaniel do not feature on the inventory, and that only the omnipresent John seems to put in an appearance!
The other proved sons of Nathaniel (I) are:
Nathaniel (II)
He is mentioned as a son of Nathaniel (I) (along with John) in a lease of 1645, but has disappeared (presumably dead) in a renewal of the lease for John and his betrothed wife dated 1665. No sign at the 1645 date of any other sons.
Richard
We know about him from the admon you kindly sent me. I presume you have aged him 40+ on the assumption that he was a minor at the time of his father’s death in 1663 and died in 1683. As he is not mentioned in the above lease, he is likely to have been borne post 1645.
Loose ended Trengoves
Now that we have Reginald (I)’s will, the mystery of the Reginald Trengove branch of the tree is largely solved - even if we do not have all the names yet. Moreover, the detailed dispositions in the will make me think that all Reginald’s surviving children and grandchildren have been provided for in his will.
This leaves two known individuals, born around 1650, currently ‘fatherless’. They are:
James (II) Trengove
He married Prudence Edwards at Stithians in 1676, with a string of daughers baptised in Gwennap and finally a son Richard, baptised in Perranarworthal in 1690. . He died in Gwennap in 1706, and Prudence in 1723 in Gwennap too. He is described as a 'tinner' in the burial record.
Jacobe (I) Trengove
He married Marey Hodge in Perranarworthal in 1673, and had a son Charles baptised there in 1686. No record of Jacobe (I)’s death.
Given that there is no evidence from the Hearth Tax Return of 1662 of any other Trengoves in the Stithians/Perranarworthal area other than Nathaniel (I) and Reginald (I), it seems to me a pretty fair assumption (on the balance of probabilities, but not beyond all reasonable doubt) that James (II) and Jacobe (I) were sons of either Nathaniel (I) or Reginald (I). Since we appear to have Reginald (I) pretty ‘boxed off’, I think it a reasonable bet that James (II) and Jacobe (I) were also (younger) sons of Nathaniel (I), who were, like Nathaniel (II), minors at the time of their father’s death and so were not recorded on the inventory to the admon.
I seem now to be running out of evidential options. Leases may help with Reginald (I)’s family at Stithians, but it is clear from the leases I know about re. Nathaniel (I) that the lands he farmed under lease passed to his eldest son John.
There are still some ‘longer shot’ wills/admons extant which might shed some light on all these murky Trengove family connections at Perranarworthal in the late 17th and early 18th Centuries. These are:
Richard Trengove, Redruth, 1693-4
Prudence Trengove, Gwennap, 2 May 1723
Richard Trengove, Perranarworthal, 1753.
Would you be able, in due course (no hurry) to look up these for me?
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Post by Zenobia on May 31, 2007 21:27:50 GMT -5
I am comforted somewhat that two proved sons of Nathaniel do not feature on the inventory, and that only the omnipresent John seems to put in an appearance! Now you are going to have to refresh my memory - who was the other proved son? Ah! I am glad you reminded me of this, as I was so busy getting the documents, I really did not have time to analyze them. Richard not being listed at the bottom of his father's admon is heartening - we know from Richard's own admon that he was Nathaniel's son, and that he survived him. So that allows more possibility that Nathaniel had other sons. As for Richard's age, I was basing that on the fact that he was old enough to own enough stuff of value for an admon needed to be granted!  Agreed! Looking good to be a son of Nathaniel, both chronologically and geographically. Son Richard possibly named for his deceased brother. Did he name a daughter Katherine? Again, well located both in time and place. Do you have any additional children for him? Well, I do think they are both good candidates to be sons of Nathaniel, but their names not being on the inventory would not necessarily stem from them being minors (although they certainly may have been). It is very rare to see the names of children given in admons, but I have seen it occasionally (usually it appears to be scribbled as a notation on one of the probate documents - not always the same one), and in the cases I've seen, all children are usually named. However, I have also seen a case where the spouse is jotted down, but not the children. In this case I think Katherine and John's names appearing at the bottom of the inventory was simply because they were joint executors. Primogeniture was the law in England for a very long time, although it was not followed as strictly by the lower (non peerage) classes. The gentry did usually pass the estate to the eldest son, although fathers sometimes were able to grant bits of land away to younger sons in their lifetime. I have to confess I was at the FHC last night, but had 3 new films in, so did not take the time to check these. I will do so the very next time I am up there, however. I have Prudence listed in my Gwennap probate list - heres is an admon, so I would not have access to it. I will be able to get the one for Richard at Redruth for sure, and whether I can get Richard at Perranarworthal depends on whether it is a will or an admon. If it is a will, then I have the correct volume.  |
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Post by marktrengove on Jun 1, 2007 13:03:43 GMT -5
Nathaniel, as you realise below! |
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Post by marktrengove on Jun 1, 2007 17:19:02 GMT -5
The only recorded baptism for a child of Jacobe (I) Trengove and Marey Hodge (married on 4 November 1673 at Perranarworthal) was Charles, bap. 14 June 1686. Charles may have been buried in Perranarworthal on 5 October 1715. These are from the Bishop's Transcript of the Perranarworthal Registers because the originals are lost prior to 1739. The Bishop's Transcript only starts in the second half of the 17th Century and is, I suspect, incomplete anyway.
I think it likely that Jacobe (I) and Mary may have had more children before Charles, as there is a gap of some 13 years between their marriage in 1673 and Charles' birth about 1686.
I think 'my' younger Jacob was born abt 1700, so I suspect Charles may be too young to be a candidate for his father.
One final piece of the broken jigsaw: the Bishop's Transcipt for Perranarworthal records on 6 May 1716 the burial of a 'Margary, wife of Jacob Trengove'. Perhaps this is Marey (that is how her name is spelled)? The fact that the record says 'wife' not 'widow' implies to me that this Jacob was still alive in 1716.
The alternative view is that this is another Jacob (II), son of Jacobe (I), who married a Margary, who may have been the parents of 'my' Jacob (III)!
So many Jacobs - and there's more later (including one of my sons!).
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Post by Cornish Terrier on Jun 2, 2007 11:45:17 GMT -5
Mark - do not forget the possibility of delayed baptisms - even in those days.
Charles may have been several years old at the time he was baptised.
Another point - If you find any 'James' floating about that may be unaccounted for just consider that 'he' or 'they' might actually be 'Jacob' also.
I believe 'Jacobus' was the Latin for 'James'.
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Post by marktrengove on Jun 2, 2007 16:50:10 GMT -5
Yes, your point about a later baptism is a good one, so I will not wholly rule out Charles as a possible direct ancestor - although there is no recurrence of the name in my branch of the Trengove Tree at all, where Jacobs and Richards predominate.
I too had contemplated that James Trengove and Jacobe (I) Trengove were one and the same. We know that Mary Hodge was still alive at the baptism of Charles in 1686, but James had an infant daughter Rebecca who died in 1677, the year after Prudence and he were married. So, unless Jacobe/James was keeping one wife in Gwennap and another in Perranarworthal (not impossible!) it looks as though we have two roughly contemporaneous persons here.
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Post by Zenobia on Jun 3, 2007 2:05:12 GMT -5
The only recorded baptism for a child of Jacobe (I) Trengove and Marey Hodge (married on 4 November 1673 at Perranarworthal) was Charles, bap. 14 June 1686. Charles may have been buried in Perranarworthal on 5 October 1715. These are from the Bishop's Transcript of the Perranarworthal Registers because the originals are lost prior to 1739. The Bishop's Transcript only starts in the second half of the 17th Century and is, I suspect, incomplete anyway. Was Marey's name given at Charles' baptism or only the father? Very likely. Do you have the P.A. registers handy? If so it might be helpful if you can post which years are missing (might be nice to put on the "Kerrier et al" board in the same manner that I posted the "black Hole of Towednack" and the "Black Hole of Gwithian" ones). Then we can get a feel for exactly what years are missing so we know what we have to work with. Is it possible that Jacob was married more than once - first to Marey and then to Margery? |
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Post by marktrengove on Jun 3, 2007 4:33:37 GMT -5
Charles' baptism
Both names are recorded as Charles' parents.
The Perranarworthal Registers
See under black-holes in the relevant place.
Did Jacobe marry twice?
Yes, it's possible, but less likely if Jacobe and James are the same person!
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Post by marktrengove on Jun 3, 2007 4:44:04 GMT -5
I have looked again today on the matter of whether James and Jacobe are one and the same.
In the cold light of morning I now think it might be possible.
No parents are given in the Bishop's Transcript for the burial of poor Rebecca at Gwennap in 1677. The only known Trengove at Gwennap at that time was James Trengove. I had assumed the mother was Prudence, but Rebecca might have lived a few years and been Marey's daughter.
So it is just possible that James and Jacobe are one and the same, and that firstr he married Marey, then Prudence!
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Post by Cornish Terrier on Jun 3, 2007 11:22:58 GMT -5
Mark - it does make it very difficult when no parents (and in many cases no parent at all) are named at a burial. The amount of entries I have seen in early registers that seem almost useless is probably endless. (Hypothetical - but relevant):- Joe Bloggs, inf., bu. 1st December 1745, Towednack There are many similar references in PR's but it must also be remembered that the term 'infant' did not simply mean a child of up to (say) a year old. The term infant has been found to mean a much older child but 'usually' not over 5. (I hope my memory is correct here.  ) As I do not know a lot about the Trengoves I can, at the moment, only through suggestions at you but it does seem that I am giving you food for thought which will hopefully help you out. |
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Post by Zenobia on Jun 3, 2007 15:59:20 GMT -5
Hi Mark,
It would help to visualize if we could see the whole family/ies.
Could you list all the baptisms for the children of James and Jacob, with the full dates and parish?
It does look like it might have been one Jacob/James marrying twice, with the Margery belonging to a younger Jacob....
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Post by marktrengove on Jun 3, 2007 16:59:13 GMT -5
Here's what I prepared earlier, even before your request! You now have all the dame information from which I've been working.
TRENGOVES IN PERRANARWOTHAL, STITHIANS, St GLUVIAS, KENWYN AND GWENNAP PARISH RECORDS 1650 - 1725
This chronological list has been put together from the various records detailed below.
It details all the extant records for the Trengoves centred around Ponsanooth in the second half of the 17th Century and first quarter of the 18th Century. Ponsanooth lies partly in the following parishes: Stithians, St Gluvias, Gwennap and Perranarworthal.
The only other 'Trengove footprint' at that time is around Redruth and St Austell - the descendants of an Andrew Trengove of Redruth who may or may not be a separate family of the Trengoves of Ponsanooth. There was also a small family of Trengoves way east at St Cleer, south of Bodmin Moor, who may (or may not) be related to the Nances of Warleggan, descendants of Henry Nance/Trengove of Nance, Illogan (d.1561).
Parish records exist for Perranarworthal only from 1739. Bishop's Transcripts exist back to 1597, but little survives prior to 1684.
For Stithians the parish records exist from 1656, but are largely illegible due to water damage. Bishop's Transcripts for this parish exist back to 1597, but little survives prior to 1680. The details from the Bishop's transcripts were kindly taken for me in May 2007 by Nancy Tonkin of Truro from microfiches of the records kept at the Cornwall Record Office, Truro.
For Gwennap, parish records exist back to 1658. Transcription of these records were kindly provided for me by Wendy Angove. The records for St Gluvias go back to about 1600.
I have also included wills and admons, and evidence from leases, where relevant.
Sources are quoted in brackets: BTP = Bishop's Transcript for Perranarworthal; BTS: Bishop's Transcript for Stithians; GPR = Gwennap Parish Register; and IGI = International Genealogical Index; PM = Phillimore's Marriages (the latter two are obviously secondary sources).
Note: James (I) Trengove of Perranarworthal, husband of Alice and father on Nathaniel (I) and Reginald (I), must have died between 1641 and 1645. In 1641 he signed the Protestation Return, along with his two sons. In 1645 a lease taken by Nathaniel (I) refers to Alice as 'widow and mother of leasee'.
1650 - 1675
Abt 1650, at Perranarworthal, birth of Nataniel, son of Nathaniel Trengove and Katherine [1645 Henderson lease]
2 April 1654, baptised at Stithians, Richard, son of Rennald Trengove [IGI]
Abt July 1663, at Perranarworthal, death of Nathaniel Trengove [1663 Admon of Nathaniel Trengove]
29 June 1665, married at Fowey, John Trengove of Perranarworthal and Anne Brode of Tywardreath [PM]
29 July 1667, baptised at Perranarworthal, Briget, dau. of John Trengove and Anne [IGI]
4 March 1670, baptised at Perranarworthal, Anne, dau. of John Trengove and Anne [IGI]
25 February 1670, married at St Gluvias, Anne Trengove and Richard Nicklis [PM]
25 July 1670, married at Kenwyn, Thomas Trengrowes and Johan Drescod [PM]
4 November 1673, married at Perranarworthal, Jacobe Trengove and Marey Hodge [BTP]
1676 - 1699
8 July 1676, married at Stithians, James Trengove and Prudence Edwards, dau. of Richard Edwards of Perranarworthal [BTS]
15 March 1677, buried at Gwennap, Rebeeka Trengove [GPR]
xxxxxx 1682, married at Stithians, Reuth, dau. of Samuel Treangove, and xxxx Trevena [PM]
Abt June 1683, at Perranarworthal, death of Richard Trengove, son of Nathaniel and Katharine [1683 Admon of Richard Trengove]
20 May 1684, married at Stithians, Jane Trengove and Michael Langdon [BTS]
13 March 1686, buried at Perranarworthal, James Trengove [BTP]
14 June 1686, baptised at Perranarworthal, Charles, son of Jacobe and Marey Trengove [BTP]
8 May 1687, buried at Perranarworthal, Elizabeth Trengove [BTP]
15 May 1687, buried at Perranarworthal, Richard Trengove [BTP]
23 September 1690, baptised at Perranarworthal, Richard, son of James Trengove and Prudence [BTP]
Abt 1690, born at Perranarworthal, Richard, son of Nathaniel Trengove and Elizabeth [1735 Will of Nathaniel Trengove, and 1742/3 Will of Nathaniel Trengove
Abt 1690, born at Perranarworthal, Elizabeth, dau. of Nathaniel Trengove and Elizabeth [1735 Will of Nathaniel Trengove]
Abt 1690, born at Perranarworthal, Nathaniel, son of Nathaniel Trengove and Elizabeth [Will of Nathaniel Trengove, probate 1739]
9 March 1692, buried at Perranarworthal, Richard Trengove [BTP]
8 December 1692, married at Perranarworthal, Nathaniell Trengove and Elizabeth Thomas [BTP]
1 March 1693, baptised at Gwennap, Prudence, dau. of James Trengove [GPR]
Abt 1693, at Stithians?, death of Reginald Trengove [Will of Reginald Trengove, proved at Truro 1693]
20 June 1695, married at Perranarworthal, Jane Trengove and William Prenne [PM]
25 May 1697, baptised at Perranarworthal, John, son of Nathaniell Trengove and Elizabeth [BTP]
1700 -1727
5 November 1700, baptised at Perranarworthal, Ann, dau. of Nathaniel Trengove and Elizabeth [IGI]
12 April 1701, buried at Perranarworthal, An Trengove [BTP]
31 December 1701, buried at Perranarworthal, An Trengove [BTP]
17 May 1703, married at Gwennap, Alice, dau. of James Trengove and William Kent [GPR]
2 July 1706, buried at Gwennap, James Trengove, tinner [GPR]
30 October 1709, married at Gwennap, Elizabeth Trengove and William Kent [PM]
8 August 1710, baptised at Perranarworthal, Michiall, son of Nathaniel Trengove and Elizabeth [IGI]
14 August 1711, buried at Perranarworthal, John Trengove [BTP]
2 October 1711, baptised at Perranarworthal, Alice, dau. of Nathaniel Trengove and Jane [BTP]
16 December 1711, baptised at Perranarworthal, Bridget, dau. of Richard Trengove and Anne [BTP]
22 December 1711, baptised at Perranarworthal, Kathrien, dau. of John Trengove and Anne [BTP]
29 June 1713, married at Gwennap, Prudence Trengove and James Kent [GPR]
5 October 1715, buried at Perranarworthal, Charles Trengove [BTP]
6 May 1716, buried at Perranarworthal, Margary, wife of Jacob Trengove [BTP]
9 June 1718, buried at Perranarworthal, Charles, son of Nathaniel Trengove [BTP]
28 March 1720, baptised at Perranarworthal, Charles, son of Nathaniel Trengove and Jane [BTP]
19 November 1720, married at Perranarworthal, Reginald Trengove and Elizabeth Hurden [BTP]
21 September 1721, baptised at Perranarworthal, Thomas, son of Richard Trengove and Jane [BTP]
5 March 1721, baptised at Perranarworthal, Charles, son of Reginald Trengove and Elizabeth [BTP]
3 June 1721, buried at Perranarworthal, Elizabeth Trengove [BTP]
19 January 1723, baptised at Perranarworthal, Redgenall, son of Redgenall Trengove and Elizabeth [IGI]
? May 1723, death of Prudence Trengove at Gwennap [1723 Admon of Prudence Trengove]
27 August 1723, baptism at Perranarworthal of John, son of Richard Trengove and Jane
Abt 1727, marriage at Stithians of Mary Trengove and John Knuckey of Stithians [Boyd's Marriage Index]
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Post by Cornish Terrier on Jun 4, 2007 10:15:00 GMT -5
Given what you have provided here (and I have only had a very brief look at it) I would suggest you take on my recent suggestion regarding Wills. For the Parishes you are interested in (initially) check lists of Wills for any of those Parishes and try to get a look at them to see if there might be a reference to someone of interest. You just never know when that 'lost bit of information' might turn up. |
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Post by marktrengove on Jun 4, 2007 14:39:03 GMT -5
Just to put all the information online about the Trengoves of Ponsanooth in this period, here are extracts from the Henderson leases in the CRO:
RECORDS OF LEASES - Perranarworthal
This material is provided, courtesy of Joy Trengove, Australia. It is taken from Volume 5 of Henderson's Records of Leases of the Pendarves and Bassett families relating to the Manor of Arworthal, in Cornwall Record Office, Truro.
1. "1638 - NATHANIEL TRENGOVE (yeo) of Perran Arworthal and wife Katherine leases a mesnalty called Arworthal in the Church Town of Arworthal."
2. "1664: KATHERINE, relic of Nathaniel, conveyed the above lease."
3. "22 April 1645: W.Pendarves, Esq, leases to Nathaniel Trengove of Perran Arworthal, Yeoman, Penleane Wollas (40 acres), Penleane Down, Ballamoore Wood, all in the parish of Perran Arworthal. Lives in succession to Alice, Widow and Mother of lessee, John and Nathaniel, sons of lessee."
4. "24 June 1665: W Pendarves leases to John, son of Nathaniel Trengove, yeo dec'd, and Anne Broad, spinster, John's intended wife, for 100 pounds, Penleane, also Pelleane Wollas, the Down and Ballamoore Wood. Signed by John Trengove and Anne Broad."
5. "5 February 1680: W Pendarves leases to John Trengove of Perran Arworthal, yeo, for 60 pounds, the above land. John Trengove, Wife, Nathaniel, son of lessee."
6. "1713: Alex. Pendarves leases to Nathaniel Trengove of Perran Arworthal, yeo, Pelleane Crease. Lives of Elizabeth, his wife, and Nathaniel their son, in reversion to Jane Hendra of Perran Arworthal, widow".
Nathaniel's leaseholding can be identified with the modern day Pellynwartha, 750m NNE of Ponsanooth.
Reginald's farm, mentioned in his will as 'Tery' must be either Teffry or Tory farms, both near SW of Ponsanooth.
In future I will refer to the family as the 'Trengoves of Ponsanooth'.
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, gent & others
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