Thomas Gilbart/Gilbert

[bruce0609]

I am trying to find a Thomas Gilbert or Gilbart [ or other spelling variant] whose wife Marjory bore a son Thomas in Illogan in 1806. The younger Thomas migrated to Sydney, Australia aged 43 with his family. Thomas junior was married twice, first in Phillack, to Mary Brown, and later in St Erth, as a widower, to Elizabeth Martin [ see my St Erth posts]
At the time of migration Thomas & Marjory were deceased, according to shipping records. Nor do the elder Gilberts seem to be in the 1841 census.
Thomas senior may have been the Thomas Jelbart who married Marjory Uren in Illogan in 1797, but I cannot make the connection.
Any help would be appreciated.

[Cornish Terrier]

Welcome aboard 'bruce0609'. (Where abouts in Oz are you??)

Just glancing through things at the moment with the view to doing more serious stuff after I get through working New Year's Eve.

I have noted your query and will try and deal with the St Erth side of things before returning to this particular item.

All the best for the New Year and will catch up as soon as I can to try and answer your questions.

Ian

[getafish460]

Hi there, or G'day, whichever you prefer in the colonies!!
I'm researching, in the main, the Carpenter family from Illogan and, thanks to some serious help here (Cornish Terrier is ace at this stuff!) I've been connected to one Susan(na) Jelbert (or Gilbert) who married into my lot in 1808. Her father was Andrew Gilbert and his father is recorded as John Gilberd. I'm wondering if they are any connection to your Gilbert/Gilbart's,
my info is a bit scant as I've only just got details of this connection, so you may well know far more than I do.
I'd be interested to find out.
Kind regards
Ted Carpenter

[bruce0609]

G'day Ted,
Things move slowly down here on the farm as I've just logged on to read your post. Your Susanna is not one of my tribe. At least , not as far back as I can trace. However, my Gilbert/Jelbert line stops about1780, at present, which is just before the time I expect your lady may have been born. I did note an entry in Family Search for a Susanna b. Illogan 1789 with no parent details.
Regards, Bruce

[Cornish Terrier]

Bruce - it may be that I have a couple of things here that may be of help. They will at least give you something to think about anyway.

Margery JELBERT buried 11th November 1827 Illogan age 57

I only have the CFHS Index so the information is very much 'bare bones' but closer inspection gives cause to be a little optimistic.

Age 57 at death places the birth for this Margery at about 1770 and the mathematics looks promising.

If this was Margery UREN then a 1770 birth would make her about 27 when she married Thomas Jelbart in 1797. And it would make her about 45 when her last child was baptised in 1815.

All of this fits nicely within the parameters I set for determining possible parentage.
But that's not all!

Margery d/o Andrew and Elizabeth UREN bp. 14th January 1770 at Illogan

This now looks a good match but with just one possible problem ..... Thomas and Margery Jelbart did not name any of their sons Andrew.

And now for Thomas.

Thomas JILBERT age 58 buried 21st July 1832 at Illogan

This would indicate a birth around 1774 and IF it is your Thomas then he would have been about 23 when he married.
He is younger than Margery but that is of little consequence.

As with Margery this is the only Thomas Jelbert/Jelbart/Jilbert/Gilbert/Gilbart etc. buried at Illogan between 1813 and 1837. That still leaves a little over three years leading up to the 1841 Census but I think both should be considered definite possibilities.

If we begin with the assumption that Thomas may have been born at Illogan then once again we have a candidate who matches about perfectly:-

Thomas son of John and Jane GILBERD bp. 24th July 1774 at Illogan

It would be wise to check for other possibilities and also to see if there is any chance that this Thomas died young. But this particular baptism does have some support.

The first child of Thomas and Margery was a daughter whom they named Jennifer.And with Jennifer and Jane being interchangeable it suggests that this may have been the name of Thomas' mother.

The second child was another daughter who was named Elizabeth. Another child was given that name in 1815 suggesting the earlier Elizabeth died young. And the fact that the name was used twice would support Elizabeth being the name of either the mother of Thomas or of Margery.
The 1770 baptism of Margery Uren shown above gives us Elizabeth as her mother.

It all looks 'picture perfect' except that there is no son named Andrew.

CT

[Cornish Terrier]

Bruce - I have just been able to take a bit of a look at the Illogan family in the Jelbart Society records.

I would suggest that your Thomas was most likely the child baptised in 1774 and that his parents were John Gilbert and Jane EPLETT.

A quick scan of possible children indicates that Thomas was the second son with the first having been named John after his father. The suggestion therefore is that Thomas may have been the name of John Gilbert's father which would then give us:-

John son of Thomas and Jane GILBERD bp. 2nd September 1748 at Illogan

Thomas GILBERT married Jane HAMPTON 21st October 1738 at Illogan

That is the way I would be looking at the moment although other possibilities should definitely not be ignored.

CT

[bruce0609]

Congratulations CT. I think you have done it again !!
John & Jane [ Eplett] fit in with Jeff Perry's work and you have found the "correct " parents for John. Thank you.
As for Andrew , Marjery's brother of that name died in childhood, so perhaps the name was avoided?
Bruce

[Cornish Terrier]

It's good to know when you are on the right track Bruce.

I must say that I have not followed Margory's family yet so cannot speculate over Andrew. There may be many reasons why the name was not used but it probably almost certainly rules it out as being the name of her father.
And as you have mentioned he was Margery's brother then I think you may already know that.

CT

[Mal]

Hello there, I have quite a few Jelbards who become Gilberts etc and it can be quite a bit confusing or at least problematical to research due to the name not coming up in search engines etc!!!

Have you tried this site?
www.rogerj.co.uk/jelbsoc.htm

There is material you can download and I have found it quite helpful in the past.

[bruce0609]

Thanks Mal
Yes I have been there, but cant find a Jelbart/ Gilbart/Gilbert that fits my line, whom I have attached, down as far as those who migrated to Australia. Those that are uncertain are Thomas Jelbart/Gilbart.
who married Marjery Uren and backwards.
Bruce

Attachments:

[bruce0609]

Mal & CT
I've scratched about in Family Search and think I may have linked my clan to the Jelbart Society's Jelbarts of Illogan. Highly speculative I know, but
Thomas Julbert m Catharine 17/6/1704 in Illogan
and produced 2 sons at least
Thomas bp 30/8/1713 Illogan m.Jane Hampton in Illogan 21/10/1738 from whose son John bp 2/9/1748 we trace our line
and John , bp Illogan 15/12/1705 , from whom the Jelbart Soc Illogan family is descended.
I am naturally open to any modification , correction that you can throw in
Bruce

[Cornish Terrier]

Bruce - It may be an idea to try and build on the descendants of that early marriage and see if a reasonable picture forms around your known links.

Try to do it with the least possible reference to other works so that you are forming your own opinions and then see how things compare.

With a gap of about 8 years I would think there should be other children to Thomas and Catherine so it would be worth pursuing that line to see what can be found.
And don't restrict your self to Illogan as they may well have moved around a bit. Certainly check the neighbouring Parishes such as Redruth, Camborne and so on also.

The one thing I would check from the Jelbart Society information would be any Wills or Will abstracts that they may quote.

CT

[meggle]

Hi Bruce,

My thoughts are Thomas is the son of John and Jane Eplett, they had 13 chilldren all boys born in Illogan, with only 4 still living after 1796, Thomas b. 1774, who married Margery Uren, Wiliam b. 1778, who married, Tiberia Uren(sister of Margery) Richard b. 1786 married Jane Jeffery and 2nd wife Mary Cliff (My 4th G Grandfather) and Stephen b.1792 who I think may have married Catherine Martin. I have their baptism details and census for William and Richard.
My thoughts are that some of Thomas's children are neighbours of both Richard and William.
Cheers
Meggle

[bruce0609]

Thanks Meggle.
Yes I had also decided that Thomas was the s/o John and Jane, but I did not have all 4 surviving sons. I have John b 1748 as the son of Thomas of Redruth b 1713 who may have been the son of Thomas of St Columb Major b 1678 and married to Catherine. How does this tally with your line ?
"My " Gilberts are part of my "Walker& Gilbert" family tree on Ancestry if you are interested though that site is not as detailed as my home record , and does contain I am sure some dubious connections.
Bruce

[bruce0609]

Sifting through my Gilbert file I came across a letter from another researching this family who suggested that John Gilbert b Illogan 1773 & bp 28/3/1773 may have married an Ann Chapel 2/4/1797. The author also acknowledged the death of a John in 1796 which could also exclude the possibility of this marriage. The widowed Ann appears in the 1841 census living with the Nettell family in Illogan.
So my question is: does anyone have evidence of the parents of the John Gilbert/ Jelbert who married Ann Chapel ?
With thanks
Bruce