junket
Noweth
I am learning, please be patient with me.
Posts: 27
|
Post by junket on Aug 19, 2012 5:21:17 GMT -5
I too have been doing a little digging.
I found the couple on the index of surnames for St Issey, on St Issey Folk.
Nancy Hicks, was bapt. ANN HICKS, 15 10 1786, St Ervan. Buried, St Eval, 21 10 1847, as NANCY ARTHUR
Ann / Nancy married Joshua ARTHUR, 8 4 1809, St Eval
She was buried, Nancy ARTHUR, 21 10 1847, St Eval.
Joshua ARTHUR, bapt. 11 6 1787, Roche
Died, Downhill, St Eval
Buried. Joshua PARKYN, 7 6 1861, St Eval.
I have emailed Tim, the OPC, asking if he has more information.
|
|
|
Post by donne on Aug 19, 2012 5:37:54 GMT -5
Just a suggestion with no further research to back it up - from an example in my own family tree dating to the early 1800s, could it be that the father Joshua was actually illegitimate, grew up using his mother's name but then changed to his father's name? In my case, this is exactly what happened with a period in the middle when he used both names - his father was well known, unfortunately dying before getting round to marry his mother.
|
|
junket
Noweth
I am learning, please be patient with me.
Posts: 27
|
Post by junket on Aug 19, 2012 6:28:49 GMT -5
Hi Roger.
This thought had crossed my mind, too.
My husband's g g grandfather, was illegitimate and used his mother's maiden name.
She later remarried and he was brought up in the household.
Then, for some reason one of his son's, used both his surname and that of his married paternal grandmother.
Perhaps we should consider, WHY, people changed their names ?
|
|
|
Post by Cornish Terrier on Aug 19, 2012 8:22:58 GMT -5
Junket - In my opinion this information is wrong and I would go so far as to suggest that the research behind it was not very thorough. The parents of this child were Richard Hicks, widower of St Ervan, and Elizabeth Binny who married at St Eval 29th June 1781 Neither Richard nor Elizabeth were names used for the children of Joshua and Nancy Arthur which is very suggestive. It might be argued that if Joshua was, as currently suspected, the son of Samuel and Prudence Arthur then there was no daughter named Prudence. But let's consider our alternative for Nancy Hicks:- Ann daughter of William and Dorothy Hicks bp. 6th July 1788 at St Eval Certainly a birth in 1786 is a much better match for a burial in 1847 at the age of 62 but we should all know by now how unreliable death/burial ages can be. There appears to be no evidence of a burial at either St Ervan or St Eval to suggest either of these girls died young but I think another look at the children of Joshua and Nancy tells a little story :- Samuel 1810Isaac 1812 John 1814 Priscilla 1817 Joshua 1821 Dorothy 1823Jacob 1826 Abraham 1833 And then, although St Ervan and St Eval are adjacent Parishes, there is nothing to suggest that the wife of Joshua Arthur was from anywhere but St Eval. In my opinion the wife of Joshua Arthur was the Ann Hicks baptised at St Eval daughter of William and Dorothy. And now for another interesting little point. Joshua Parkyn of Downhill age 74 was buried 7th June 1861 at St Eval (as you discovered But back in April when the Census was taken we find Joshua Arthur age 74 at Downhill. Of course none of this answers the question about why three sons changed their name from Arthur to Parkyn. That Joshua appears as Parkyn in the burial register may simply come down to who was responsible for reporting the death and organising the burial. (I just checked FreeBMD and his death was registered as Parkyn.) But I wonder if this little item that I just discovered might have any bearing on our dilemma? ;D Elizabeth Arthur otherwise Parking buried March the 7th 1778 at St EvalCT
|
|
|
Post by marychown on Aug 19, 2012 11:04:51 GMT -5
It is most interesting that there is an OPC burial record for an Elizabeth Arthur otherwise Perkin at St. Eval on 7 March 1778 and does indeed offer a possibility.
From baptism records it appears that Joshua was baptised at Roche on 11 June 1787 as the son of Samuel and Prudence Arthur. It is also a fact that Joshua and Nancy named their eldest son Samuel - presumably for Joshua's father. Checks for a baptism for Joshua's father Samuel reveal that he may have been Samuel Arthur baptised at St. Issey 6 March 1757 as the son of William Arthur and Ann Werry. OPC Transcriber's notes: Spouse Catherine Eplett Parish Reconstruction. I note that there is a much later OPC marriage record on 24 July 1775 at Little Petherick between a Samuel Arthur of St. Minver and Catherine Eplett, but I can't really see any connection here with Samuel Arthur father of Joshua. There is also a St. Issey OPC baptism record for ELIZABETH d/o William Arthur and Ann Werry on 6 Jan 1755 . So it appears that Joshua's father Samuel Arthur could have been the brother of Elizabeth Arthur otherwise Perkin who was buried at St. Eval on 7 March 1778. St. Issey baptism records show that there were 10 children born to William Arthur and Ann Werry: Ruth bap. 14 July 1750; Samuel bap. 12 Jan 1753 who died in infancy; Elizabeth bap. 6 Jan 1755; Samuel bap. 6 March 1757 (Joshua's father), WIlliam bap. 16 Apr 1759; Ann bap. 3 Dec 1761; David bap. 29 July 1764; John bap. 10 May 1767; Frances bap. 21 June 1772 and Thomas bap. 22 Oct 1775. There is an OPC marriage record at St. Breock for William Arthur of Padstow and Ann Werry on 10 Feb 1745. I presume that the baptism register notes the mother's maiden name of Werry to avoid confusion because on 27 Dec 1748 also at St. Issey a William Arthur married Ann Lobb.
Although this does not explain Elizabeth Arthur's use of the name Parkin, I suppose that she may have been living with somebody of that name and had come to be known by it as well as Arthur. I can so far find no marriage between her and anybody called Parkin/Perkin and also no children she may have had by either the name Arthur or the name Parkin/Perkin. I could find one Parkin-Arthur marriage within the relevant time scale, but that was an OPC marriage record between a John Perkin (profession car.) and a Catherine Arthur at Lostwithiel on 21 Jan 1777. I suspect a great deal more digging needs to be done!
Mary
|
|
junket
Noweth
I am learning, please be patient with me.
Posts: 27
|
Post by junket on Aug 19, 2012 12:53:46 GMT -5
QA name I came across going through some roche Marriages, was PARKING.
Looking on the OPc. database, there are several entries for that Surname,, maybe PARKYN, could be a variant of PARKING ?
|
|
|
Post by Cornish Terrier on Aug 19, 2012 13:28:39 GMT -5
And you can add Parkins, Parkyns, Perkin and so on. But I wonder if the name when used by the Arthurs might have something to do with property.
|
|
|
Post by Cornish Terrier on Aug 19, 2012 13:34:23 GMT -5
Mary - Samuel Arthur was age 84 when buried at Roche 13th January 1831 thus placing his birth around 1746 which is a good 10 years earlier than those you have mentioned.
His wife, Prudence, died of the 'epidemical fever' and was buried at Roche 8th November 1801.
St Eval baptisms prior to 1813 have not yet appeared on the OPC site but there was a Samuel Arthur baptised to Francis and Wilmot Arthur 15th February 1749 at St Eval.
Those names do not appear among the children of Samuel and Prudence but this is the closest I have been able to find to the projected birth year based on his age in 1831.
Elizabeth Arthur otherwise Parking may well be the key but so far I have been able to find nothing more about her.
CT
|
|
|
Post by donne on Aug 20, 2012 7:17:55 GMT -5
CT's discovery of the burial of Elizabeth ARTHUR alias PARKING does seem significant. The OPC site does list another PARKING burial at St. Eval: Etheridge PARKING 7 Mar 1778. From the coincidence of the dates, it looks as though they should be connected.
|
|
|
Post by Cornish Terrier on Aug 20, 2012 9:56:28 GMT -5
They are! They are one and the same!! The burial is actually (as I have only just discovered) recorded twice in the PRs. Volume P61/1/1 - Baptisms, Marriages, Burials, 1695-1778 The last burials in this volume are for 1777 and 1778 with the burial in question recorded:- Elizabeth Arthur Elis Perkin march the 7th Volume P61/1/2 - Baptisms, Burials, 1778-1812 The burials for 1778 have been copied to the first page in this register and are followed by burials for 1779 and onwards. In this case the entry reads Elizabeth Arthur otherweys Parking march the 7th It is not the easiest to read and requires a bit of zoom but there is no doubt about what is written. I have sent an Error Report to the OPC with the correction. CT
|
|
|
Post by donne on Aug 21, 2012 5:10:17 GMT -5
Well done, CT, I'm sure that's the correct interpretation, but I couldn't read that on the screen.
|
|
junket
Noweth
I am learning, please be patient with me.
Posts: 27
|
Post by junket on Aug 21, 2012 6:52:32 GMT -5
Yes, well done C T.
|
|
|
Post by Cornish Terrier on Oct 13, 2012 5:09:05 GMT -5
Thought you might be interested in this little addition to the confusion at St Eval! I started out trying to find out why Thomas Dawe Jenkin and his wife Sarah (nee Opie) named a daughter Elizabeth Blanch Trewhella Jenkin and found myself back at St Eval without an answer! Elizabeth married Simeon Tippett at St Enoder in 1903 and it is the Tippett line that brought me to where I am. Simeon James Tippett was the son of William Tippett and Ann ARTHUR who married at St Enoder 2nd July 1864. In the 1871 Census the Tippett household includes Temperance ARTHUR who is described as 'mother-in-law' and widowed age 67. Her birthplace is recorded as St Eval. In the marriage record Ann Arthur names her father as Thomas NICHOLLS, Innkeeper! Now, the marriage record and the Census indicate that Ann ARTHUR was born at St Eval about 1841 or 1842 yet I could not find a baptism .............. until I tried a 'different' kind of search. In frustration I decided to see if I could find someone named ANN baptised between 1840 and 1844 and whose mother was named TEMPERANCE. Ann Nicholls daughter of Temperance PARKYN of Poor House baptised 19th August 1841 St EvalI had already found Ann and her mother in the 1851 Census and from there had determined that Temperance was the daughter of Francis ARTHUR and Betsy SAMSON who were married at St Eval in 1804. In the 1851 Census Temperance is described as 'pauper (timber leg'! So once again we have the Arthur/Parkyn confusion! CT
|
|
|
Post by penwarne on Oct 14, 2012 20:10:46 GMT -5
I'm interested in Jacob Parkin/Arthur (son of Joshua & Nancy Arthur) bapt Jacob Arthur 05 Feb 1826 St Eval. There is no OPC marriage record but I have a copy of his marriage cert. and he is called Jacob PARKIN, age 25, father Joshua. He married Elizabeth Vivian of St Issey at St Issey 23 Oct 1852. So this is the 4th of Joshua's sons who started using the name Parkin. One of the witnesses is Joshua Parkin (could be his father or his brother). Jacob and Elizabeth's three eldest children were born in St Issey, Thomas Vivian PARKIN bapt 17 Apr 1853, John PARKYN bapt. 14 Oct 1855 and Ann PARKYN bapt. 31 Dec 1857. On each of these records the father's forename is recorded as Jacob ARTHUR. Also, Jacob's unmarried sisters, Priscilla and Dorothy, appear in each census as ARTHUR to 1881. However, Priscilla is burried as PARKYN at St Eval 14 Mar 1891, Dorothy is Dorothy PARKYN in the 1891 census and is burried 1 Oct 1893 at St Eval as Dorothy PARKYN. Quite an identity crisis!
|
|
|
Post by cactusjack on Mar 12, 2013 2:53:01 GMT -5
brilliant work everyone! Just catching up on this now. Have to study it all really closely and take it all in. Thanks for sharing it all, and I hope when I study it in detail I can offer something back. Thank you!
|
|