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Post by kerthen on Jan 3, 2008 15:26:39 GMT -5
Happy New Year to all.
I've been reading the posts on various parishes and surnames with great interest. My own Cornish families go back from my grandmother's parents - Tom NUTE who was born at Gunnislake and whose family straddled the Tamar for a few generations, and Mary Rodda RALPH, who was born at Pauls Green in 1862 and whose forebears were in the parishes of Crowan, St Erth, Ludgvan, St Hilary and vicinity.
As the focus here is on the Penwith area, my particular interests are: RALPH in Crowan and St Erth 18th-20st cent RODDA in Crowan and St Erth and Phillack 18th-21st cent HOCKING/HOCKEN in Crowan and St Erth 18th-20th cent HOSKING in Ludgvan - 18th-19th cent BARKER in St Erth and Gwinear 18th-19th cent TIPPET in St Erth and Crowan 18th-19th cent BOWDEN in Ludgvan 18th-19th cen EDWARDS in Ludgvan 18th-19th cent SEMS in Crowan 18th cent BASTARD in Crowan 18th cent Williams in Breage and Crowan 18th cent HART in Crowan 18th cent PELLOW in St Erth and Gwinear 18th cent TREMELLIN in St Erth 18th cent PEARCE in St Erth 19th cent WOOLCOCK in St Erth 19th cent
I am particularly interested in all the families and inter-relationships that existed in the area around what is now Townshend, which takes in part of St Erth, part of Crowan, part of Gwinear and part of Breage.
I look forward to corresponding with anyone interested in these surnames or in this area. I'm also trying to sort out some 'identifiers' in Ludgvan parish, but will post that there.
cheers, Barbara
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Post by donne on Jan 3, 2008 20:10:42 GMT -5
Hello Barbara, I was struck by your user name. I am currently working on the estate map of the manor of Godolphin (1788) which details the tenants and tenements around Kerthen and Kerthen Wood. The manor straddles the boundary between the parishes of St Erth and Crowan. The list of tenants names is as follows:
William BARTLE, At Kerthen Wood Charles BLIGHT, At Kerthen Wood Samuel BETTENS At Kerthen Wood Richard CHAMPION, At Kerthen Wood Widow DONNE, At Kerthen Wood Thomas ELLIS, At Kerthen Wood Jane EUSTIS, At Kerthen Richard FAULL, At Paul's Down Arthur FOX, Harrington Wood HENRY JENKIN Snr., Higher Kerthen Henry JENKIN Jnr., Lower Kerthen William PHILLIPS (P) At Kerthen Wood (denoted by 'P' on orignal map) William PHILLIPS (Pw) At Kerthen Wood (denoted by 'Pw' on original map) Thomas RALPH, At Kerthen Wood William RALPH, At Kerthen Wood John RALPH and John RODDA, At Paul's Down Benjamin and John ROWE, Trenadras Estate George TAYLOR, At Kerthen Wood John TREMELLING, At Kerthen Wood William TONKIN, At Kerthen Wood John THOMAS, At Kerthen Wood
I'm not sure if the two William PHILLIPS are the same person. My primary interest is in the DONNE name (Widow DONNE in the list above). There are also leases in the CRO which give some further information - for example, the Richard CHAMPION's 1788 holding was previously leased to a Richard DUNN and Samuel BETTENS holding was leased to a William DUNN. The Widow DONNE listed above is probably Phillipa BLIGHT who married Richard DUNN in St Erth, 1732, and who was widowed in 1777.
Strangely enough, I also have a Wesley NUTE in my database from East Cornwall, who married a Beatrice SNELL, the SNELLs being another of my interests.
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Post by kerthen on Jan 3, 2008 23:24:53 GMT -5
Hello Roger
Many thanks for your reply. I have been working with that same estate map! As you might imagine, I'm trying to sort out the RALPHs, many of whom lived at Pauls Green/Place/Downs and in the general vicinity (especially in the 1841 census). I've been working on an annotated census for the 1841 EDs 1 & 2 of that area and am doing my best to compare it with the estate map and the tithe map.
Perhaps if we put our heads together we can sort these people out.
I know there is a DUNN-RALPH connection with Thomas RALPH's (d 1790) wife being Anne DUNN (d 1789). Chances are there are more connections that I haven't uncovered yet.
I'm not familiar with Wesley NUTE, but it seems likely that as the NUTE surname is relatively scarce your Wesley could be related distantly to my Tom.
I look forward to comparing notes. I'll go track mine down and perhaps we can make some headway.
Barbara
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Post by donne on Jan 4, 2008 5:36:23 GMT -5
Hi Barbara, What a coincidence about the map! I photographed bits of it at the CRO and I have a fairly complete record, although I tended to concentrate on names I knew. Since then I have tried to map the tenements on to various old OS maps. My latest project is to map these holdings to the modern field patterns shown on the satellite images provided (free) by Google Earth - you can almost feel as though you are there then. It's surprising how the old field boundaries persist and even when hedges have been removed the old pattern is there in the crop marks.
I have an Anne DUNN in my database, who is my 1st cousin 5 times removed (according to the relationship calculator!). She was bap around 1732 in Crowan, dau of John DUN and Elizabeth, but I don't have a marriage record for her - could this be the wife of your Thomas RALPH?
As far as I can see, the Thomas/William RALPH holdings were in Crowan parish (the boundary is complicated here) and about one field away from Widow DONNE's land at Kerthen Wood. However you may be more interested in the John RALPH/ John RODDA land at Paul's Down.
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Post by kerthen on Jan 4, 2008 19:18:07 GMT -5
Hello Roger,
Yes, I am interested in the John RALPH/ John RODDA land (and families) at Paul's Down. They are all part of my extended bunch. I think, if I press it back far enough, I can identify 3 strains of RODDAs who likely intersect back in the 15-16th century but I have no records to show it.
I have photos of the old estate map as well, and spent quite a lot of time going through the lease book that went with it, through which I was able to identify at last my Thomas HOCKING/HOCKEN's father. He is on the map as William HOCKEN/HOCKING and by the time the tithe maps come around that same land is in the possession of Thomas. In the lease book the land is let to William for his own life and the life of his son Thomas, age 12, which corresponds to the age of my Thomas. As there is no baptismal record for Thomas anywhere, these records are the only proof I've got that he's the son of William. It works, though!
I believe Anne Dunn, bap 1732, would likely be the wife of Thomas RALPH. They had seven children, several of whom died young. Three daughters survived to adulthood and married. I can provide you with the info on them if you are interested.
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Post by donne on Jan 4, 2008 20:26:50 GMT -5
Hello Barbara, You have as much info as I have on the map it seems, possibly more, because when I photographed the map in October 2006, they said they didn't have the lease book - that must be something for next time. I do have a copy of an article on the 1730 Oversees' Account for the Parish of Crowan which is interesting since it associates names with places. Looking through it for the names you are interested in, I see there is a Richard RODDA at Kerthen assessed for 1s 2d; at a place called Boteda a Widow HOCKIN and Benjamin HOCKIN are each assessed a 3s 4d. There are several WILLIAMS - William WILLIAMS at Trethannas (5s 0d) and at Carvolth (3s 4d), widow WILLIAMS at Releath (5s 4d), at Coskewis (2s ) at Carrenver (6s ), and Philip WILLIAMS at Releath (10s 0d). On the expenditure side, fflorence RODDA widow receives £1 19s 11d. I can't spot any of the other names, which may imply the families moved in after 1730. I since found the Ann DUNN marriage you mentioned, but I would be grateful if you could post the children's details.
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Post by kerthen on Jan 4, 2008 22:49:40 GMT -5
Roger, That's very interesting about the lease book, because I saw it there in the CRO in September 2006! I wonder if someone misfiled it after I used it.
I took photos of pages I was interested in, but by no means have the whole book.
Thank you for the references to the article on the 1730 Overseers' Account. I have not had very good luck finding films of those records for Crowan. (Ludgvan's are much more extensively filmed). I don't recognize the names of many of the tenements or hamlets mentioned. Do you?
I know there were quite a lot of RODDAs and HOCKINs in the area -- one particular matchup of these families seems to produce sons named Tobias in nearly every generation. They are in the A2A abstracts at Kerthen, but I have not identified yet which property they were on.
There are another group of RODDAs, also in Crowan, further east near Cargenwen, but I have not found a connection between them and the several groups near Kerthen.
I will be happy to give you what I know of the DUNN-RALPH children, but should I move it to a different board. We seem to be moving beyond "new member interests" but since our interests are not precisely St Erth and not precisely Crowan, I'm not sure where to put them. You tell me where to post, and I'll go there and post them.
Barbara
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Post by donne on Jan 5, 2008 4:53:16 GMT -5
Good idea about the move. Let's go to the Crowan board.
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Post by kerthen on Jan 5, 2008 15:54:41 GMT -5
I moved the discussion to "DUNN and RALPH at Kerthen" on the Crowan board. There are a lot of St Erth connections with these two families, so we might want to put up a note there, too.
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Post by Marpleg A-boynt on Jan 10, 2008 6:41:49 GMT -5
Welcome Barbara
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Post by Cornish Terrier on Jan 13, 2008 15:50:05 GMT -5
And a Big Welcome from the Cornish Terrier. ;D Barbara (and Roger) I have had a very quick glance through your correspondence and will get involved as soon as I can. Been offline for two weeks and trying to catch up. But one place-name mentioned turns up in much of my records (transcripts etc.) as 'Kirton Wood' - same place I reckon. We may all have more to talk about soon given that the general area under discussion here involved, at some time, members of the Trewhella family. Time to check the next posting before bed. Either of you may contact me via PM if you wish (or email) to discuss options on some of this so as to save any unnecessary chat on the Board. We can decide from there where information and queries should be best posted and then proceed 'happily ever after'. Cornish Terrier
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Post by kerthen on Jan 14, 2008 10:43:40 GMT -5
Thank you, Ian. Roger and I have been corresponding about maps off the board so as not to confuse things.
Yes. Kirton Wood is the same as Kerthen Wood. There are a variety of spellings.
It will be a bit tricky to 'place' this discussion because it is largely focused on the Manor of Godolphin which as you know spreads over part of St Erth, Crowan and Breage in Cornwall. And, of course, there are Godolphin records elsewhere as well.
What I would like to know is, what records are available for the Manor of Clowance and Helligan held by the St Aubyn family which borders Godolphin to the east. When I was last at the CRO there didn't seem to be any there - a fire, I believe, was to blame for some being missing -- and I wondered if you had ever run across any. Part of the 'farm' I'm interested in covers territory in both manors.
Thanks, Barbara
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Post by Cornish Terrier on Jan 14, 2008 14:20:09 GMT -5
G'day Barbara, My first thought would be to try the online A2A catalogue for the information you seek. There is also the Cornish Studies Library at Redruty which may have someting. The Morrab Library at Penzance might also be somewhere worth checking. You have also mentioned a few names and places of interest to me but I will have to get back to that at some later time. I need to get to bed so I can work this afternoon. However - please let me know if the above has been of help. Plan B is that I call my Cousin in Truro and ask her for some further information given that she spends quite a deal of time at the CRO and has a good knowledge of where to find things like this. Until later, Ian
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Post by kerthen on Jan 15, 2008 13:29:35 GMT -5
Ian, I had the same notion and spent a couple of hours going through the Grylls records and all the Ratcliffe & Henderson abstracts at the CRO on A2A. I suspect that the papers that would have been most helpful to me were victim of one of the fires. There is a note in one of the files that there was a fire in the mansion house at Clowance in 1843 which took out a great many records. I did make note of some that could be of use.
Right now I'm doing my best to sort out the Ralph family of Crowan and St Erth, many of whom lived in the neighborhood of Kerthen Wood in both parishes and also at Carzise, Noonvares and Pauls Green. Most of them are named William, so it's a puzzle. I've been working on a tithe apportionment map in the hope that it will shed some light on which families are which and who likely belongs to whom. Roger has been most helpful with a list of miners and a good map of the Godolphin Manor tenants in that area.
I think I need a few more puzzle pieces before I can make any serious conclusions.
Thank you for your help and if you have comments about some of my other surname interests, by all means, let's talk!
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Post by Cornish Terrier on Jan 16, 2008 17:11:57 GMT -5
Barbara - as I am still having Internet connection problems I will have to revisit this.
I am becoming increasingly frustrated and would like to help more straight away.
After two weeks offline and now having only intermittent service I have a lot of catching up to do but I will get to things as quickly as possible.
Ian
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