|
Post by Cornish Terrier on Jul 16, 2012 10:27:21 GMT -5
Well Bruce - I have done some more digging and it would seem you are quite correct in not favouring the family of Edward and Sarah Jane Costello being connected with your Catherine. I have found some Ancestry Trees for this family and it appears that Kate (Catherine d/o Edward and Sarah Jane) was a Josephite Nun. One note says that she looked after Mother Mary McKillop when she was ill. So I guess she was too busy to be marrying Thomas Aaron Gilbert! Oh well, back to the old drawing board again! CT
|
|
|
Post by Cornish Terrier on Jul 16, 2012 10:51:44 GMT -5
Bruce - it may be worth some time to look at the following:- cfhg.webs.com/publications.htmThis is for the Cowra FHG and from what I read Boorowa BDMs are included in some of the work. CT
|
|
|
Post by bruce0609 on Jul 17, 2012 6:33:54 GMT -5
Thanks CT I will have to re-activate my Ancestry subscription and chase up those trees, as well as some other loose ends in other branches of the tree. The Cowra link may yield something more too. Bruce
|
|
|
Post by tenpoundpom on May 19, 2013 3:09:37 GMT -5
Now let's have another look at the burial:- Elizabeth Gilbart buried at St Erth 5th July 1847 age 73 The West Briton has the following entry in its edition of Friday 16th July 1847:- At St Erth, on the 8th inst., Elizabeth, wife of Capt. John Gilbert, of St Erth, Ba.... Mills, aged 25? years The age is obviously difficult to read, hence the ?, so it could be 75. BUT - the record states that the death occurred on the 8th inst., which is 3 days after the above burial! FreeBMD shows only one death recorded for an Elizabeth Gilbert/Gilbart in the September Qtr of 1847 in the Penzance R.D. And the transcription of St Erth burials also shows only one Elizabeth buried in that time period which leads to the conclusion that the above burial and the entry from the West Briton must be for the same person. Question - which of the two is in error? CT I'm a bit late to the party, and have only just started to explore this family line. Like CT I'm related to this family through Catherine Gilbart who is my 3rd great grandmother. So that makes Elizabeth Gilbart (nee Huthnance) my 4th GGM. I believe that the burial date is correct, and the "West Briton" is wrong. The death notice was originally posted in "The Royal Cornwall Gazette" on Friday 9th July 1847. Rather than stating the date of death it says "At St Erth, on Thursday, Elizabeth, the relict of Capt. John Gilbert, of St Erth Battery Mills, aged 73 years." Given the publication date - Friday the 9th July, and the day of death "Thursday", it is likely that the Thursday referred to is the 1st of July and not the 8th. I can only presume that the 16 July "West Briton" copied the details from the "Royal Cornwall Gazette", but since the death was a couple of "Thursdays" ago chose the wrong Thursday to put in the notice, and perhaps the wrong age. I'm trying to establish Elizabeth Huthnances parents. My best guess is John Huthnance and Elizabeth Tremayne. They were married in Phillack 22 November 1771. On the parish record John is from Gwinear and Elizabeth from Phillack. I can find 6 children baptised in Gwinear to John Huthnance and Elizabeth from 1774 to 1787. There is another John Huthnance and Elizabeth at St Martin in Meneage active around the same time, but I'm sure a different couple. That Elizabeth is probably Elizabeth Hosking Any further info gratefully received!
|
|
|
Post by white on May 19, 2013 9:54:43 GMT -5
I believe you have the correct parents for Elizabeth. I can add more to the Gilbert line if you wish. RW
|
|
|
Post by Cornish Terrier on May 19, 2013 22:02:22 GMT -5
I agree also with the parents of Elizabeth being John Huthnance and Elizabeth Tremayne. One of the witnesses to Elizabeth's marriage was a Henry Huthnance who was probably her younger brother who was baptised at Gwinear in 1775. Also of note is that amongst the children was Matthew in 1787 with that name possibly coming from the Tremayne side. When John Huthnance and Elizabeth Tremayne married the two witnesses were Matt Tremayne and William Tremayne.
CT
|
|
|
Post by tenpoundpom on May 20, 2013 7:04:59 GMT -5
>white
Thank you. I usually need all the help I can! I've really only just started trying to unravel this line, so I don't really know what I don't know as yet!
Taking my direct line (which is via Catherine Gilbart 1803-1887), I have her recorded as being married to Joseph Pascoe (1802-1875) and having 6 children including John Gilbart Pascoe (1844-1913) who is great great GF on the maternal side.
I have Catherine Gilbart (1803-1887) as one of 13 children of John Gilbart and Elizabeth Huthnance.
For the children I have
1. Elizabeth Gilbart (1799-) m. Edmund Huthnance - 5 children. I having some problems tracking this family. I have one daughter Catherine Lee dying in infancy, but the rest going to USA/Canada. Help with this line would be appreciated!
2. John Gilbart (1800-1870). Never married as far as I can gather
3. James Gilbart (1801-) m Ann Ellis. 3 children
4. Catherine Gilbart (1803-1887). My line!
5. Mary Gilbart (1805-) m Thomas Edwards. Went to Australia. Plenty of info to sort through so no calls for help as yet!
6. Francis Gilbart (1807-1881) m Elizabeth (?Wearn). No children, though Elizabeth had children with John Gilbart (not Francis's brother John though...) I think I need to clarify that situation, so some help here would be appreciated as to the relationship between Francis and the 'other' John Gilbart...?cousins
7. Sarah Gilbart (1808-) m Francis Tuckfield. Wesleyan missionary in Australia. Much info to digest. I'll sort through all that before I press the Help! button.
8. Thomasine Gilbart (1808 - 1844). Never married. Died at St Erth. Is that correct?
9. Margery Gilbart (1810-). m. William Henry Hoare. 2 children. Migrated to Australia 1854. Not persued this line further so far. If you have some info, that would be great.
10. William Gilbart (1812-1887) m. Elizabeth Jane Tippett Thomas. 10 children. I think most of the family ended up in Canada, but haven't researched this much as yet. So any help would be appreciated.
11. Benjamin Gilbart (1814-1883). ?never married
12. Thomas Gilbart (1815-) m. Jane Rogers. 4 children. Jane has a Trewhela connection as previously noted by CT
13. Jane Gilbart (1817-) m. John Huthnance. Not persued further at this stage.
Although I've made some tentative steps in taking Elizabeth Huthnance's family a bit further back, I haven't really examined John Gilbart (1761-1837) further at this stage.
My limited information is that John came from Hayle to St Erth in 1784. Parents James Gilbart and Catherine Pearce
It would be great if you can make any corrections/additions to what I have posted!
> CT
Thanks re your confirmation that Elizabeth Huthnance's parents were likely John Huthnance and Elizabeth Tremayne.
I'm a fledgling into this side of the the family so would welcome any insights that you and white have.
Simon
|
|
|
Post by Cornish Terrier on May 20, 2013 8:07:20 GMT -5
Simon - most of the work I have done on this family was as a result of queries here so I think most of the information I have would be in this thread. But on looking through your outline I see that there are at least two or perhaps three marriages that I don't have linked as yet. I have only pursued a couple of the siblings of Catherine for one or two generations so far which means that you are probably ahead of me! But don't be backward in coming forward if you have any particular queries or if you think I can help in any way. CT
|
|
|
Post by bruce0609 on Jun 7, 2018 23:08:42 GMT -5
And now for the initial part of your post. Francis Gilbart was an elder brother of Thomas and was therefore an uncle to Thomas Trewhella Gilbart. I don't think Francis had any children of his own but, as per the Census, he did marry. As far as I am aware Francis was the sixth of 13 children to John Gilbart and Elizabeth Huthnance with Thomas being the 12th child and youngest son. Second child and eldest son was John who was born in 1800. And this is where that Census record will be made clear. John Gilbart married Elizabeth Wearn about 1831 or 1832 although I am yet to find the marriage. There were seven children from this marriage before John died at Little Mill, St Erth 24th September 1847. He was buried at St Erth three days later on the 27th September age 45. From memory John's brother Francis was with his widowed sister-in-law and her children in 1851 although without looking at the Census again I cannot remember if Francis was Elizabeth or if Elizabeth and the children were with Francis. However, in the March Qtr of 1852, possibly at the Registry Office, Francis and his widowed sister-in-law were married and hence the interesting mix of information from the 1851 and 1861 Census. CT
|
|
|
Post by bruce0609 on Jun 7, 2018 23:18:17 GMT -5
After a long time, Hello again CT : I have been unable to locate the marriage of John Jelbert & Elizabeth Davis that you mention in this post in either the OPC or Family Search records. Can you throw any further light on this couple please? There seems to be as many Elizabeth Wearns in the Reduth-Hayle area as there are John Gilberts !! Bruce Okay Chris (and also Azenor and Bruce!) - it will be worth your while to read through this thread right from the start. But I believe I have solved another part of the mystery although I would still like to find Francis Gilbart in the 1841 Census. As you pointed out John Gilbart (b. 1800) was unmarried and with his brother William at Battery Mill in 1851 and I found that John Gilbart with wife Elizabeth was also at St Erth but with two additional children who clearly belonged to another family. I mentioned in my last that these two children were baptised to Thomas and Mary Gilbart and a read back through the earlier messages in this thread gave further details of that family. After reading everything again I tried another search and I am now reasonably confident that this second John and his brother Thomas were from Illogan. We know that John Gilbart died in 1847 age 45 and a few years later his widow married Francis Gilbart who is currently presumed to have been the son of John Gilbart and Elizabeth Huthnance. The information here suggests that John was born about 1802 and the information from Bruce regarding Thomas Gilbart suggests that he was born around 1806. John son of Thomas and Margery JILBERT bp. 13th March 1803 Illogan Thomas son of Thomas and Margery JELBERT bp. 28th April 1805 Illogan Thomas JELBART married Margery UREN 22nd July 1797 at Illogan There is a possibility also that I may have a lead on the marriage of John Gilbart and Elizabeth Wearn but I am awaiting a reply from the OPC for Illogan to see if I might be on the right track. With no marriage being found for Elizabeth Wearn I began to wonder if she might have been previously married so I am investigating the following:- John DAVEY married Elizabeth WEARN 2nd January 1828 at Phillack John JELLBERT married Elizabeth DAVIS 31st March 1830 at Illogan Life would be so much easier if these two names did not have so many variations! CT
|
|
|
Post by Cornish Terrier on Jun 8, 2018 2:20:38 GMT -5
Welcome back Bruce. It's taken me a few minutes but I have now located the marriage ………… and I located another of potential interest at Illogan at the same time! As for not finding these on the OPC or FS sites - well the OPC is gradually getting there I think but currently only pre-1813 marriages have been transcribed. FamilySearch on the other hand has bee lacking Illogan records for as long as I can remember ………….. and that is around 40 years!! Okay, the two marriages can be found in the 1813-1837 Illogan Marriages which can be purchased from the Cornwall Family History Society and they were also transcribed by Dick Bawden. But the two links below will take you to images of them via a FamilySearch collection of Exeter Bishops Transcripts:- 1st marriage - John JELLBERT and Elizabeth DAVIS www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/3:1:3QS7-L93K-29QF-R?i=22&cat=18335742nd marriage - John JELLBART and Elizabeth SAMPSON www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/3:1:3QS7-L93K-29QV-H?i=83&cat=1833574If you have any trouble viewing or accessing these then let me know and I will help you out. CT
|
|
|
Post by bruce0609 on Jun 8, 2018 3:58:05 GMT -5
Hello CT Thank you for that information.I have just now found the death of Elizabeth Davey in St Erth in 1841 , along with a number of her children whose father was John. So it appears that Elizabeth Wearn who married John Gilbart in 1830 and bore a daughter Elizabeth Jane Wearn Gilbert was not the widow of John Davey [ nee Wearn] who married in Phillack in 1828. And so not the Elizabeth Davies of Illogan. The other issue I have is John Jelbert s/o Thomas & Marjory does not appear to have had a brother Francis. So John of St Erth may not be Thomas & Marjory's son either !! And on a totally different tack, I have identified the lineage of Catherine Costello mentioned in the post of Jul17 2012 [ below, in this thread]. It seems her father was a rogue who spent much of his life "inside", and whose wife left him for another man while he was so occupied. He listed his daughter as next of kin shortly before he died in admission papers to the Liverpool Asylum {NSW] Bruce
|
|
|
Post by Cornish Terrier on Jun 8, 2018 4:10:33 GMT -5
This is along way back in my memory banks so I don't remember all the details and as I have a fairly large project underway at the moment it would be difficult to catch up on everything. However, if your John Jelbart is supposed to have had a brother named Francis then there is one way you might be able to track him down via the OPC database.
You can search baptisms for Francis and identify those baptized within the likely time-frame. Note the various sets of parents involved and then search for all children of each to see if you can locate a John in the same family born around the right place and time. Jelbart has quite a number of different spellings so I would suggest you try the following abbreviations/wildcard entries in the forename and surname fields and then set a start and end date of say 10 years either side of the approximate birth of your John.
In the forename field simply enter FR and in the surname field enter this as a wildcard entry - %LB%RT. That should capture all variaions of the surname for you.
CT
|
|
|
Post by bruce0609 on Jun 9, 2018 6:00:14 GMT -5
Following up. There does not seem to be any record of a marriage of John Gilbart [ any spelling] and an Elizabeth Wearn , using OPC Cornwall or Family Search.
Elizabeth Gilbart, wife of John, was born in Ludgvan according to the censuses of 1851 onwards, and there is a baptism in Ludgvan to match in 1806 [OPC] Elizabeth Wearn who married John Davey appears to have been born in St.Erth in 1806 and there is a baptism to match. She appears to have been a resident of Phillack parish at the time of her marriage there in 1828 [ OPC]
FreeCen shows an Elizabeth Davey wife of George [ not John] in St. Erth in 1841. It appears she died 17-10-1841 in St Erth [OPC]. Ages are correct in both cases [ birth~ 1806]
John Gilbart and his wife Elizabeth nee Wearn also appear in St. Erth in the 1841 census. Their eldest daughter Elizabeth Jane Wearn Gilbart was 9 years of age, pointing to a marriage about 1831 -1832.
Francis Gilbart whom Elizabeth married after the death of John has been reasonably well documented as one of the children of John Gilbart and Elizabeth Huthnance, and not a relative of her first husband as I had previously supposed.
John Gilbert/Gilbart , 1st husband of Elizabeth appears to be a son of Thomas Jelbert and Marjory Uren of Illogan, due to the presence of his brother Thomas' children John and Emily in his household in the 1841 census, Thomas was then in Phillack, a recent widower. John's age would match that of John born in Illogan in 1803.
|
|